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Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,11:09) How would they know rebellion if they had never experienced it?
Hi KJ,Experienced it?
This is not an intellectual game but life.
Did your Mum explain rebellion to you before she smacked your bum?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,18:45) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,11:09) How would they know rebellion if they had never experienced it?
Hi KJ,Experienced it?
This is not an intellectual game but life.
Did your Mum explain rebellion to you before she smacked your bum?
Yes, but if you believe the bible then you must admit that mankind had no idea of sin or right and wrong until AFTER eating the forbidden fruit. Thus, they had no knowledge of anything but good. You seem to ignore this fact.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,11:09) How would they know rebellion if they had never experienced it?
How do we know about repentance if we don't know what righteousness is?Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”–
Thus before this they did not know, so how could they understand? Notice that Eve did not even hesitate once the serpent told her she would not die. Why would she have cause to disbelieve the serpent? After all, she only knew good so all was good to her.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2008,19:09) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,11:09) How would they know rebellion if they had never experienced it?
How do we know about repentance if we don't know what righteousness is?
How would you know unrighteousness without the ability to know good and evil?Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,12:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,18:45) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,11:09) How would they know rebellion if they had never experienced it?
Hi KJ,Experienced it?
This is not an intellectual game but life.
Did your Mum explain rebellion to you before she smacked your bum?
Yes, but if you believe the bible then you must admit that mankind had no idea of sin or right and wrong until AFTER eating the forbidden fruit. Thus, they had no knowledge of anything but good. You seem to ignore this fact.
Hi KJ,
Knowledge is not just head knowledge based on information given in a teaching environment..
Adam knew Who His Creator was and he understood instructions.
Anything else required?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,20:14) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,12:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,18:45) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,11:09) How would they know rebellion if they had never experienced it?
Hi KJ,Experienced it?
This is not an intellectual game but life.
Did your Mum explain rebellion to you before she smacked your bum?
Yes, but if you believe the bible then you must admit that mankind had no idea of sin or right and wrong until AFTER eating the forbidden fruit. Thus, they had no knowledge of anything but good. You seem to ignore this fact.
Hi KJ,
Knowledge is not just head knowledge based on information given in a teaching environment..
Adam knew Who His Creator was and he understood instructions.
Anything else required?
He did? Show me in scripture. If he had understood so well, why did he eat so readily after Eve did?- Gen 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
I don't see any bit of hesitation on Adam's part.
Ah, so you are saying God made a no-win situation for Adam? Sounds kinda cruel of God, dontcha think?
Where was Adam going to go, to another woman?!?
Here's the scenario: God made the animals, God made Adam and Eve. One of God's animals (as far as Eve knew) said the fruit was fine. Eve did not know evil, so it was easy for her to believe in the words spoken by a creature that God created. Then, Adam shares and God punishes them for believing one of God's creatures.
There is some seriously faulty logic in this.
Here's the setup:
(1) God created all and said it was good- Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
(2) Adam and Eve did not know what evil was until they ate of the fruit
- Gen 3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”–(3) Since Adam and Eve were innocent, and only knew good, they could not know that the serpent was NOT good, since God said all of His creation was good (see #1 above). Thus, they had no clue that the serpent was against God or deceiving them.
(4) If God created all and said it was good, how can the not-so-good serpent have come about?
(5) How can God punish Adam and Eve for disobeying Him when [a] they did not know what death was or they did not know the difference between good and evil or[c] the serpent could not be evil because God created all and said it was good?Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:49) Here's the scenario: God made the animals, God made Adam and Eve. One of God's animals (as far as Eve knew) said the fruit was fine. Eve did not know evil, so it was easy for her to believe in the words spoken by a creature that God created. Then, Adam shares and God punishes them for believing one of God's creatures. There is some seriously faulty logic in this.
Hi KJ,
Wrong audience for you complaints.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:59) Here's the setup:
(1) God created all and said it was good- Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
(2) Adam and Eve did not know what evil was until they ate of the fruit
- Gen 3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”–(3) Since Adam and Eve were innocent, and only knew good, they could not know that the serpent was NOT good, since God said all of His creation was good (see #1 above). Thus, they had no clue that the serpent was against God or deceiving them.
(4) If God created all and said it was good, how can the not-so-good serpent have come about?
(5) How can God punish Adam and Eve for disobeying Him when [a] they did not know what death was or they did not know the difference between good and evil or[c] the serpent could not be evil because God created all and said it was good?
Hi KJ,Gen2
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' ”4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
Are not folk so easily deceived?
Just a tweak here and a twist there.
Attacking the faith of simple couple in God.
Suggesting God was being economical with the truth
And trusting her intuition and what she could see and hope to gain
She disobeyed a direct order from their God and he followed lamely in her wake.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,12:12) Why would she have cause to disbelieve the serpent?
Because at that point she had 2 conflicting pieces of information.One from Yahweh and the other from the serpent.
Using her free will she chose the serpent.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:59) Here's the setup:
(1) God created all and said it was good- Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
(2) Adam and Eve did not know what evil was until they ate of the fruit
- Gen 3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”–(3) Since Adam and Eve were innocent, and only knew good, they could not know that the serpent was NOT good, since God said all of His creation was good (see #1 above). Thus, they had no clue that the serpent was against God or deceiving them.
(4) If God created all and said it was good, how can the not-so-good serpent have come about?
(5) How can God punish Adam and Eve for disobeying Him when [a] they did not know what death was or they did not know the difference between good and evil or[c] the serpent could not be evil because God created all and said it was good?
KJ, if God said to you that his kingdom was beyond your wildest dreams and imaginations and the serpent said that this kingdom was boring and rebellion was the only thrill left, then would you believe God, even though you have perhaps never experienced or seen heaven or a place with no sin?Or would you believe the serpent?
Does the lack of comprehension regarding the next world mean that we will chose the serpent? Or would you just choose to believe God anyway?
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:46) Ah, so you are saying God made a no-win situation for Adam? Sounds kinda cruel of God, dontcha think? Where was Adam going to go, to another woman?!?
A no win situation or a situation where he could have chosen to abstain from the temptation and saved his life and all who were to come after him?If you were/are happily married and an extremely gorgeous woman tempted you, what would you choose?
Adam was in paradise, yet he fell for a temptation. It is as simple as that. There is no conspiracy, it is just free will which is required for love to exist.
Adam didn't have to choose to disobey God. He wasn't a robot programmed to choose this way.
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