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Does the OT say the promised Messiah will be “without sin”?
The NT says that Jesus was made just like his brothers in every way. Did they really mean he was made like his brothers in every way AND he was made not like us at all?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,20:08) Does the OT say the promised Messiah will be “without sin”? The NT says that Jesus was made just like his brothers in every way. Did they really mean he was made like his brothers in every way AND he was made not like us at all?
Yes it says that He was like us. But He had God's Holy Spirit full strenght. And that is why He would not sin, He could have, but He knew what was at stake and He did not Sin. He was temted by Satan,just like we are.Peace and Love Mrs.
I have been told that sinning is merely missing the mark of God.
Moses gase us over 600 ways to sin.
Why is it so important that Jesus never sinned?
I would think no less of Him if He slipped up a few times while growing in stature and knowledge.
If anybody else did some of the things that Jesus did, it would be considered a sin.
Like working on the sabbath, lying about not going to a party and then sneaking up any way.Why were these things not considered sins when Jesus did them?
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 16 2008,01:12) I have been told that sinning is merely missing the mark of God.
Moses gase us over 600 ways to sin.
Why is it so important that Jesus never sinned?
I would think no less of Him if He slipped up a few times while growing in stature and knowledge.
If anybody else did some of the things that Jesus did, it would be considered a sin.
Like working on the sabbath, lying about not going to a party and then sneaking up any way.Why were these things not considered sins when Jesus did them?
Tim
Hi Tim4,
It was necessary for his vessel to be kept clean for the Spirit of God to dwell within him. Others, such as prophets like Jeremiah and John the Baptist, were chosen and filled before they could had sinned but God wanted another Adam to pass the test of possibility, to triumph over sin.Jn 7
7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.8Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come.
9When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
11Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he? “
Christ was not a free agent able to do whatever he wanted but was a servant of God who only did what he saw his Father doing. So it seems that his instructions to go to the Feast only came after speaking with his disciples.
Sin is in the eyes of God and not men. It is surely unwise to judge the holy one of sin, the one that you are relying on for salvation, for you are not greater than he.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,12:15) Sin is in the eyes of God and not men. It is surely unwise to judge the holy one of sin, the one that you are relying on for salvation, for you are not greater than he.
So if Jesus broke one of the 613 commandments of the OT, that was fine and sinless? In one place the NT says he was without sin, but using the OT, you can show he did indeed sin. How do you reconcile the two?And by saying this, it is not I judging him, but scripture that you say is the 100% infallible Word of God. So take it up with the author as you would say.
But how can we know God does not judge him? If you agree that God gave Moses the words of the Torah, and Jesus broke one of those commandments, is it not God judging him guilty by His own commands to Moses?
Hi KJ,
If God judges him guilty what chance do you have?
Do you think God should be held accountable by the rules He gave to men??What has happened to fear of God here?
So you are saying that his sinlessness did not have anything to do with him obeying scripture, but rather that God did not hold him responsible for disobeying scripture, thereby excusing him from breaking the laws given to Moses?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,20:08) Does the OT say the promised Messiah will be “without sin”? The NT says that Jesus was made just like his brothers in every way. Did they really mean he was made like his brothers in every way AND he was made not like us at all?
Adam wasn't made with sin. He was sinless.He was made with free will to sin or not.
Yeshua is the second Adam. The first Adam sinned and failed humanity because he sinned.
Now life is in Yeshua, not Adam.
All in Adam will die, all in Yeshua will live.
Sin leads to death and Yeshua represents the God of the living.
Here's one to ponder: since Adam and Eve did not know good and evil until they ate of the fruit, how would it be a sin to eat of the fruit since they did not know the difference? All they knew was that God told them not too.
Had they seen death before that? How did they even know what is was to die if that had not experienced death?
So, logically, how can you hold anyone responsible for sin when they were unaware of sin? How can anyone fear death when they do not know what death is?
Hi KJ,
Is being told directly not to, not enough?
Do we need to see it written down?God holds men responsible so if your beef is with Him speak to Him about it.
All of us are sons of Adam who ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,09:16) Here's one to ponder: since Adam and Eve did not know good and evil until they ate of the fruit, how would it be a sin to eat of the fruit since they did not know the difference? All they knew was that God told them not too. Had they seen death before that? How did they even know what is was to die if that had not experienced death?
So, logically, how can you hold anyone responsible for sin when they were unaware of sin? How can anyone fear death when they do not know what death is?
When we disobey God we can feel bad about that, but it is not the end of the world. Sometimes we don't even know when we are disobedient. But we are in weak and sinful flesh.But imagine a perfect being disobeying God. A being with no prejudice, hurt, filters, or bias. Well that is a big deal. But such a being can do this because of free will.
So such a being chose to disobey God. That means that such a being chose to do something other than the perfect will of God. Such a being went his own way and not the way of the one who is the God of the living.
So to depart from the will of God who is the God of the living certainly leads to the opposite.
I don't see having an understanding of sin as being a prerequisite of actually sinning. A perfect being who chooses against the will of God chooses a different destiny than God. Simple as that I think.
As usual Nick, you are long on dogma but short on answers that back the dogma up. How can something be considered wrong when one has no concept ofwrong? All they knew before the fruit is “don't”. Since they had not experienced death, how could they even understand the result of disobedience?
Hi KJ,
If God speaks and tells you not to do something then to do so is rebellion.
Do we need to be told not to rebel to know it is evil?Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2008,16:51) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,09:16) Here's one to ponder: since Adam and Eve did not know good and evil until they ate of the fruit, how would it be a sin to eat of the fruit since they did not know the difference? All they knew was that God told them not too. Had they seen death before that? How did they even know what is was to die if that had not experienced death?
So, logically, how can you hold anyone responsible for sin when they were unaware of sin? How can anyone fear death when they do not know what death is?
When we disobey God we can feel bad about that, but it is not the end of the world. Sometimes we don't even know when we are disobedient. But we are in weak and sinful flesh.But imagine a perfect being disobeying God. A being with no prejudice, hurt, filters, or bias. Well that is a big deal. But such a being can do this because of free will.
So such a being chose to disobey God. That means that such a being chose to do something other than the perfect will of God. Such a being went his own way and not the way of the one who is the God of the living.
So to depart from the will of God who is the God of the living certainly leads to the opposite.
I don't see having an understanding of sin as being a prerequisite of actually sinning. A perfect being who chooses against the will of God chooses a different destiny than God. Simple as that I think.
How can one feel bad about doing something if they only know good? After all, they did not know “bad” (evil) until they ate of the fruit. Thus, they ended up being punished for something they had no understanding of.
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