Jesus and blood sacrifice

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 06 2010,10:40)

Where is it stated that Abel sinned or that Enoch sinned? and why was it possible that Elijah could be taken up to heaven just like I described that Jesus did i.e Alive?

The foolishness of muslims

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 09 2010,12:23)

Hi BD: I have shared the truth with you, and have made it as plain as I can.  I don't know how I can make it any plainer, and so, all I can do is pray that God will do every thing within His power to show you that what I have said to you is the truth. Love in Christ, Marty

Peace to you Marty and may God be a witness between us of what we both declared. Surely God knows best.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 09 2010,12:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 06 2010,10:40) Where is it stated that Abel sinned or that Enoch sinned? and why was it possible that Elijah could be taken up to heaven just like I described that Jesus did i.e Alive? The foolishness of muslims For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site.

Stupid mistake again because what did they put over Jesus but “Jesus of Nazareth king of the Jews” so obviously they would be mocking as the did then

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

To anyone who has seen the video,
it is clear BD worships the great deceiver, satan!

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,03:56)

Hi Everyone, To anyone who has seen the video, it is clear BD worships the great deceiver, satan! For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site.

ED won't answer directly because he has no direct answers and while he continues to slander everything in sight he thinks his name should be protected. Has anyone seen me slander any prophet or Christ? No. But ED thinks it is okay

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2010,06:50)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,03:56) Hi Everyone, To anyone who has seen the video, it is clear BD worships the great deceiver, satan! For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site. ED won't answer directly because he has no direct answers and while he continues to slander everything in sight he thinks his name should be protected. Has anyone seen me slander any prophet or Christ? No. But ED thinks it is okay

Hi Everyone,

BD is lying again!
here is a discourse I had with BD on this site proving his falsehoods. (Click Here)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 09 2010,09:47)

Is that proof enough for you ED,? You can't ask everyone to believe that your system only works when you use it, if it works it works for everyone.

Hi BD,

It seems your god(satan) is a little lacking!

AKJV Joshua 22:34: And the children of Reuben, And the children of Gad
(and half of the tribe of Manasseh (Joshua 22:11)) called the altar (עד [Ed]);
for [Ed] shall be a witness between us that [יהוה האלהים=117] is [“GOD”].

Numbers don’t convey ideas; but numbers can confirm ideas.
(Reuben=65 Gad=12 Manasseh=80÷2=40) [65+12+40=117].

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,17:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2009,16:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,16:26) 3.68421052631578947 Great you should be able to figure this out, if you do you truly are “witness” if not you fail. This is your test set up specifically for you since 2005 so what will you say? Hi BD, The answer to your riddle is 420/114=3.68421052631578947 Now will you turn to my GOD(YHVH); and stop worshiping false gods? Very Good 420/114 I will tell you I am starting to believe your calling because this quest has been given to many and none has arrived at 420/114 including me.

Do you have a counterfeit verse for this one concerning my Lord Jesus Christ; the one your god(satan) denies?
Or are you going to just (FALSELY) pretend these two next verses both apply to you?

Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I(Jesus Christ) have graven thee upon
the palms of my hands; thy walls (HolyCity=117) are continually before me.

Rev.21:2 And I John saw the “holy city“=117, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of [heaven.net.nz],
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself=117 shall be with them, and be their [YHVH=63]. (Rev. 21:22-22:7 / Rev.16:15 / 2Peter 3:10)

The “Divine=63” “Deity=63” of “The Bible=63” is “YHVH=63”!

You deny the apostle Paul's writings and the book of revelation;
What counterfeit can satan provide you for this BIBLE fact!

PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], AND the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Are you also forgetting about thes VERY important set of facts?…

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 01 2010,03:43)

It's like baseball 1,2, 3 strikes your OUT!

Yes; very much like baseball all three of you are NOW caught my FALLEN brother!

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2010,13:38)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:17) Muhammad is Lord=151 too you will never be fit to be a witness Please learn brother, by the Might of YHVH Quran is lord Muhammad=222 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist(guess who?), that denieth the Father and the Son. Col.2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? The Might of YHVH

It appears all three of you (Rev.12:3, Rev.13:1, Rev.13:11)
you (BD), your lord (Muhammad) and your god (satan) are the REAL losers!

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 10 2009,06:13)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:32) Quote Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,12:49) Quote Quote (katjo @ Dec. 05 2009,10:11) Cant you answer? Who is LORD? Hi Katjo, I can answer your question. The LORD is YHVH(Jesus Father). Lord(in Greek) means “owner”; so Jesus is “owner”, because His Father(Our YHVH=117) is GOD. (Luke 1:35) The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distraction of spirit. You said that the LORD is YHVH and you said that the Lord is Jesus How Many lords do you serve? Who is your “Lord”=49, BD? the 'moongod'=83 Allah=34 Hi BD, Jer.50:24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from [heaven.net.nz].

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 09 2009,10:26)

you said moongod=83 and “is satan=83 Then you try to be slick and put Lord+ Allah and say=83 How about “I Jesus“=83 I told you playing this game with me you will either understand how you should be honest or embarass yourself making up things that come back to bite you

Rev.16:19 And the great (BD)city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and
great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her
the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,07:36)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2010,06:50) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,03:56) Hi Everyone, To anyone who has seen the video, it is clear BD worships the great deceiver, satan! For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site. ED won't answer directly because he has no direct answers and while he continues to slander everything in sight he thinks his name should be protected. Has anyone seen me slander any prophet or Christ? No. But ED thinks it is okay Hi Everyone, BD is lying again! here is a discourse I had with BD on this site proving his falsehoods. (Click Here) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 09 2010,09:47) Is that proof enough for you ED,? You can't ask everyone to believe that your system only works when you use it, if it works it works for everyone. Hi BD, It seems your god(satan) is a little lacking! AKJV Joshua 22:34: And the children of Reuben, And the children of Gad (and half of the tribe of Manasseh (Joshua 22:11)) called the altar (עד [Ed]); for [Ed] shall be a witness between us that [יהוה האלהים=117] is [“GOD”]. Numbers don’t convey ideas; but numbers can confirm ideas. (Reuben=65 Gad=12 Manasseh=80÷2=40) [65+12+40=117]. Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,17:49) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2009,16:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,16:26) 3.68421052631578947 Great you should be able to figure this out, if you do you truly are “witness” if not you fail. This is your test set up specifically for you since 2005 so what will you say? Hi BD, The answer to your riddle is 420/114=3.68421052631578947 Now will you turn to my GOD(YHVH); and stop worshiping false gods? Very Good 420/114 I will tell you I am starting to believe your calling because this quest has been given to many and none has arrived at 420/114 including me. Do you have a counterfeit verse for this one concerning my Lord Jesus Christ; the one your god(satan) denies? Or are you going to just (FALSELY) pretend these two next verses both apply to you? Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I(Jesus Christ) have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls (HolyCity=117) are continually before me. Rev.21:2 And I John saw the “holy city“=117, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of [heaven.net.nz], prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself=117 shall be with them, and be their [YHVH=63]. (Rev. 21:22-22:7 / Rev.16:15 / 2Peter 3:10) The “Divine=63” “Deity=63” of “The Bible=63” is “YHVH=63”! You deny the apostle Paul's writings and the book of revelation; What counterfeit can satan provide you for this BIBLE fact! PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], AND the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]! Are you also forgetting about thes VERY important set of facts?… Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 01 2010,03:43) It's like baseball 1,2, 3 strikes your OUT! Yes; very much like baseball all three of you are NOW caught my FALLEN brother! Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2010,13:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:17) Muhammad is Lord=151 too you will never be fit to be a witness Please lea rn brother, by the Might of YHVH Quran is lord Muhammad=222 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist(guess who?), that denieth the Father and the Son. Col.2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? The Might of YHVH It appears all three of you (Rev.12:3, Rev.13:1, Rev.13:11) you (BD), your lord (Muhammad) and your god (satan) are the REAL losers! Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 10 2009,06:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:32) Quote Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,12:49) Quote Quote (katjo @ Dec. 05 2009,10:11) Cant you answer? Who is LORD? Hi Katjo, I can answer your question. The LORD is YHVH(Jesus Father). Lord(in Greek) means “owner”; so Jesus is “owner”, because His Father(Our YHVH=117) is GOD. (Luke 1:35) The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distraction of spirit. You said that the LORD is YHVH and you said that the Lord is Jesus How Many lords do you serve? Who is your “Lord”=49, BD? the 'moongod'=83 Allah=34 Hi BD, Jer.50:24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD. Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from [heaven.net.nz]. Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 09 2009,10:26) you said moongod=83 and “is satan=83 Then you try to be slick and put Lord+ Allah and say=83 How about “I Jesus“=83 I told you playing this game with me you will either understand how you should be honest or embarass yourself making up things that come back to bite you Rev.16:19 And the great (BD)city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. Witnessing to the world in behalf of… 117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm (Psalm 45:17) Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

First problem ED is that it is difficult to have a discussion with you because your entire intent is dishonest and self serving. I asked you what a moongod was and you did not answer.

I asked you if Allah was Satan then why is Allah casting out Satan in the Quran? Jesus says that Satan will not cast out Satan but you disregard the words of Jesus at every turn.

You are not even as honest as STU because at least he pulls up partial verses of the Quran out of context but you can't even be bothered to even understand what your talking about.

Out of all the people here who have critisized Islam you are the least knowledgeable and yet the most outspoken you remind me of when White Supremast say all sorts of evil things about black people or other races and then you find out they live somewhere where they have never even encountered or talked to the type of person they're slandering.

It's like Hitler who convinced a whole nation that the Jews were of the devil and worms…etc. You are only saying the most ugly things you can think of and even if Muslims were somehow your enemy you thwart the command of Jesus again by not loving your enemy.

Now how is it you say you follow Christ when you ignore his commands and teachings so I hope that you can learn to discuss issues or seriously consider questions rather than trying to conjure up fake snakes like the magicians in the day of Moses because what God gave me is REAL so you can't just steal it.

So I am asking you again what is a moongod?

What code of morality does the bible teach that the Quran does not?

Can Allah be Satan and if so please explain how?

If you do not answer all 3 of these questions plainly and clearly you will be seen now and forever as a SCAM

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,17:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2009,16:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,15:22) Ed could you figure this out? 3.68421052631578947   The meaning of this number? Great you should be able to figure this out, if you do you truly are “witness“ if not you fail. This is your test set up specifically for you since 2005 so what will you say? Hi BD, The answer to your riddle is 420÷114 = 3.68421052631578947 Now will you turn to my GOD(YHVH); and stop worshiping false gods? Very Good 420/114 I will tell you I am starting to believe your calling because this quest has been given to many and none has arrived at 420/114 including me.

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 25 2010,01:25)

This insight was given to me to strengthen ‘your belief’ in my God, YHVH! Dan.2:47 …Of a truth it is, that (Ed J) your God is God of gods, and LORD of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal (3.68421052631578947) this secret.

      1Thess.5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Hi Everybody,

BD also asked me (in essence):
'but what does the 420÷114 mean?'
I then basically told him “the answer is”…

The 420 stands for the abomination of of desolation of desolation
spoken of by Jesus, the “Son of God”, in The Bible in Matt.24:15-16…

Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of
by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place…
The Prophet Daniel's name means “God is Judge”!
Daniel 9:27 …he shall make it desolate(420=משמם)…

The 114 stands for the 114 suras (chapters) in the quran (book of fraud)!
That number (3.68421052631578947) was given to you(Asana Bodhitharta)
to confirm to that the message is true and the interpretation thereof sure!

The 420 stands for: ‘the dome of the rock’
sitting in the place where it aught not;
on the temple mount in Jerusalem.

And Bod knew already that the 114
stands for the 114 quranic chapters!

'Desolate' in Hebrew is ‘420’ and 'desolation' in English is ‘114’.
The significant meaning of 420÷114=3.68421052631578947 is this
The muslims goal is to divide up the land of Israel against God's will.

Ps.83:4 For they (muslims) have said, Come, and let us cut them
off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more
in remembrance. But He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh:
(YHVH) shall have them in derision.

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2010,10:21)

First problem ED is that it is difficult to have a discussion with you because your entire intent is dishonest and self serving. I asked you what a moongod was and you did not answer. I asked you if Allah was Satan then why is Allah casting out Satan in the Quran? Jesus says that Satan will not cast out Satan but you disregard the words of Jesus at every turn.

Hi Everyone,

BD knows that all he has to do is “Repent”,
and I will answer all of his questions; I
have told him this many times by PM!

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,10:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2010,10:21) First problem ED is that it is difficult to have a discussion with you because your entire intent is dishonest and self serving. I asked you what a moongod was and you did not answer. I asked you if Allah was Satan then why is Allah casting out Satan in the Quran? Jesus says that Satan will not cast out Satan but you disregard the words of Jesus at every turn. Hi Everyone, BD knows that all he has to do is “Repent”, and I will answer all of his questions; I have told him this many times by PM! For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site.

You will not answer because you have no answers and why would you want me to repent to you, ARE YOU GOD?

[bodhitharta]

The dome of the rock=171 why did you say 420?

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

Here is a prophecy chart showing that the abomination of desolation is the dome of the rock.
Standing in a place where it aught not; on the temple mount in Jerusalem!

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathema….ay_year

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,11:10)

Hi Everyone, Here is a prophecy chart showing that the abomination of desolation is the dome of the rock. Standing in a place where it aught not; on the temple mount in Jerusalem! http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathema….ay_year For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site.

That is unscriptural because where is the person standing there calling themself God?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,11:10)

Hi Everyone, Here is a prophecy chart showing that the abomination of desolation is the dome of the rock. Standing in a place where it aught not; on the temple mount in Jerusalem! http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathema….ay_year For the reader's sake: I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions, because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks which go ignored by the owner of this site.

I see you have a chart but tell me what would it mean if the third temple that you seem to think will be built sometime in the future is built and the Jews will began sacrificing there, right?

What does that mean to the Christian considering the Christian believe that such Sacrifices only deny that Christ was the only Sacrifice needed? I have asked you and mr scofield that question neither of you can give an answer:

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

BD seems to keep forgeting that my God, YHVH(63),
has this all spelled in his holy book; “The Bible”(63)!

Daniel 11:37-39 Neither shall he(antichrist) regard the God of his fathers(YHVH),
nor the desire of women(muslims squelch women's rights), nor regard any god:
for he(antichrist) shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honor
the God of forces(satan called allah): and a god(allah) whom his fathers knew not
shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god(allah), whom he shall
acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause [muslims] to rule over many,
and shall DIVIDE THE LAND for gain. (Click Here) <– Look at Third Post from bottom

For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.

[francis]

Hello Asana….

The following are comments from Towshab and you about blood sacrifice.

On Jan. 03 2008 at 06:06, Towhab wrote:  
——————————————————————————–
Christians say that before Jesus died on the cross, the only true way to receive forgiveness of sins was via animal blood sacrifice. Even Hebrews  says

Heb 9:22  Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Was Jesus under the law? What did he say?

Mat 5:18  For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

If the new covenant, the covenant that no longer needed blood sacrifice because of Jesus' shed blood had not come until Jesus's death, what of  the following?
==================================
Mark 2:5  And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:48  And he said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
==================================

What is this? I see no sacrifice here. How can sins be forgiven under the “old covenant” without blood?

Towshab also wrote on Jan. 03 2008 at 08:29:
——————————————————————————–
You have not answered how Jesus can forgive sin with no shedding of blood when Heb 9:22 says there is no forgiveness without the shedding of  blood.

Asana wrote this on Feb. 03 2010 at 04:17:
——————————————————————————–
I have shown conclusively that there is forgiveness without the shedding of Blood and there always has. Even when Jesus forgave the adulterer he  did not say now go sacrifice an animal or he himself did not shed his blood. He said God demands Mercy over Sacrifice but most don't know.

Asana wrote the following on June 18 2010 at 15:29  
——————————————————————————–
Read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by God. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and  they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for  forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur  afternoon? The Book of Jonah!

And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Ninevah, by the decree of the King and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast,  herd nor flock taste anything; let them not feed nor drink water; but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God; yea,  let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from  his fierce anger that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said  that he would do unto them; and he did not do it. [Jonah 3:7-10]

Please notice that Jonah tells us that God saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and God forgave them. It does not  say that God saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that God saw that they had the right faith, but rather it says that God  saw their deeds.

There are plenty of other examples that show that we do not need a blood sacrifice for our sins, in order for God to forgive us. (For example, the  giving of incense in Numbers 16:47; the giving of jewelry in Numbers 31:50; and, for Isaiah, a live coal on the lips in Isaiah 6:6-7). However, if I  can show only one time, as we find in the Book of Jonah, where God did not need a blood sacrifice, or a sacrifice of any kind, it proves that we  do not need a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

Asana wrote this on Nov. 01 2010 at 17:30  
——————————————————————————–
Acts 21:26 (King James Version)
26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of  purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them

What a sacrifice after Jesus!? I guess my point was well made

Asana wrote this on Nov. 04 2010 at 08:24  
——————————————————————————–
God forgives no blood sacfrifice needed

The following is my response to you and Towhab…

In the Old Testament… under the Old Covenant… when we see God or Jesus forgiving the sins of a person or a group of people… you are making  the assumption that no blood sacrifice was offered at all.  That is the assumption you are making.  And I think that this is the error of your  argument.  Your assumption is false to begin with.

No one, not even the great Jewish rabbi Rashi, ever disagreed that while the Temple was standing, blood sacrifice was essential. According to  the Talmud, “there is no atonement without the blood” (Yoma 5a, Zebahim 6a, Menahot 93b).

There are two main commentaries on the Talmud… the Tosafot and Rashi.   Well, in the Tosafot, the blood is actually called the “fundamental  principle;” … and Rashi's commentary  agrees, and so does the Encyclopedia Judaica. It was foundational; the blood sacrifices were the heart and soul of biblical atonement.

But… why do many Rabbis today suggest that blood is not required for atonement when their OWN teachings and ancient history says otherwise?  It's very simple.    

The question of what else besides blood can make atonement… this question really didn't become a serious question in Judaism until AFTER  70 C.E., when the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans.  And this is a VERY CRUCIAL fact to remember.  

You see… you're entire argument… as well  as Islam's… exists ONLY because you are both using the same arguments that the early Jewish Rabbis came up with when they suddenly found that they had a crises on their hands after their Temple was destroyed by the Romans.  Until then, there was no debate at all about whether blood  was required for atonement.

Muhammad did not come up with these arguments.  Islam did not come up with these arguments.  You did not come up with these arguments.   Ahteists did not come up with these arguments.  Christians did not come up with these arguments.  The arguments you are using in here in an attempt to show that blood sacrifice is not needed for atonement… these arguments essentially came from one man… one Jewish Rabbi… Yohanan ben Zaklai.   In  a panic after the Temple was destroyed, he came up with an “alternative” to blood sacrifice.

Until then… until 70AD (or C.E.)… everyone agreed that blood was required for atonement.  But now the Temple was destroyed.  What are they  going to do now?  They were in a panic.

And it was in the midst of this crisis and chaos which had followed the destruction of the Temple,  that Yohanan ben Zakkai (the father of  “Rabbinic Judaism,” who organized the schools at Yavneh) offered a solution. He told the people that just as sin was surely followed by  punishment, so repentance would surely be followed by redemption. But how could this happen without the Temple? Yohanan's answer changed  the course of Jewish practice from that day forward.

Yohanan taught that although there could no longer be sacrifices, there coul
d be prayer and lovingkindness…  and through them, the Jews might  make atonement for their sins.  He said… “Just as the Jews needed a redemptive act of compassion from God, so must they now act  compassionately in order to make themselves worthy of it.”    In this, Yohanan provided an interim ethic by which Israel could live. Over the years at Yavneh (his schools), that's what became incorporated into the Jewish liturgy and practice which we see today.   What happened at Yavneh was the creation of new Judaism without  the Temple.

Notice, however, that this is not biblical teaching.   This is rabbinic teaching.  And that is a key issue you need to remember.  The question is this: is the rabbinic teaching, the Oral Torah, authoritative or not?    Now I don't know about you… but personally,  I totally reject the Oral Torah as authoritative.  I would rather hear what God has to say in the scriptures about a subject than listen to rabbinic teachings.  .After all, as I'm sure you will agree…  Man makes mistakes… but God  doesn't.

So anyway, the scriptures clearly teaches that blood sacrifice was needed for all guilt, intentional and unintentional.  Your agruments do not come  from scriptures… but from rabbincal teachings.  And these teachings occured only after the destruction of the Temple.

However, people like you and Towshab have brought up scriptures in an attempt to try and argue that blood atonement is not necessary.  So to  be fair and honest… I want to try and go over a few of them and point out certain facts that I think you both have missed.

Let's start with Jonah since this seems to be a favorite example of yours which you like to use.  Here is what you wrote in here:

On June 18 2010… at 15:29…  Asana wrote the following:
“read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by God. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and  they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for  forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur  afternoon? The Book of Jonah!

And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Ninevah, by the decree of the King and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast,  herd nor flock taste anything; let them not feed nor drink water; but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God; yea,  let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from  his fierce anger that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said  that he would do unto them; and he did not do it. [Jonah 3:7-10]

Please notice that Jonah tells us that God saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and God forgave them. It does not  say that God saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that God saw that they had the right faith, but rather it says that God  saw their deeds.

There are plenty of other examples that show that we do not need a blood sacrifice for our sins, in order for God to forgive us. (For example, the  giving of incense in Numbers 16:47; the giving of jewelry in Numbers 31:50; and, for Isaiah, a live coal on the lips in Isaiah 6:6-7). However, if I  can show only one time, as we find in the Book of Jonah, where God did not need a blood sacrifice, or a sacrifice of any kind, it proves that we  do not need a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.”

Well… here is the problem with your argument.  In the days of Jonah… and in the days when Jesus was forgiving the adulterer and others… the  Temple STILL EXISTED.  Why is that important?  Because in the Temple,  blood sacrifice was occuring on the behalf of those who sought  forgiveness.  

You see, Blood sacrifice WAS ALWAYS REQUIRED… but it WASN'T required for a person to offer a blood sacrifice FOR EACH OF HIS SINS each day.   Can you imagine how insane that would be?  Imagine a person who sins maybe twice a day.  That means he would have to offer two blood  sacrifices each day.  Multiply that by millions of Jews doing the same thing, and you can see that there would be millions of animals being sacrificed EACH DAY!!!    Not only that… but imagine millions of Jews having to descend onto the Temple EACH DAY… sometimes twice or three times a day… to offer a blood sacrifice.  That is pure nonsense.

Instead, God offered a more simple and practical solution.  And if you look at the work of the priests on a daily basis in the Temple when it was still standing… as well as the work of the High Priest once a year on the “Day of Atonement” (Yom Kippur), you'll see what really was going on in the Temple and throughout the year in terms of atonement and blood sacrifice.  So let's take a look at the process.

One of the duties of the priests in the Temple revolved around the morning and evening sacrifices offered on behalf of the community of Israel   (Ex. 29:38-44).  Did you notice that?  There were sacrifices being made morning and evening on behalf of those who asked for repetance.

Not only that… but one of those priests was specially designated as the great, or high priest.  And one of the duties that this priest was responsible for, was to offer a special “most holy” sacrifice on behalf of the people which was to be preceded by a special sacrfice first for his own sin (Ex. 30;10 and Lev. 9; 16).  This most holy sacrfice was to be preformed only once a year on what is known in Hebrew as Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the tenth day of the seventh month of Tishri (Sept. 0 Oct) (Lev. 23:26-32).  It was to atone for all of the sins of the entire community (Lev. 16:34)

Did you notice that?  Not only were there daily blood sacrifices for the sins of the people… but there was also a special “Day of Atonement” each  year which offered a blood sacrifice to atone for all of the sins of the people.  

During Yom Kippur… the Day of Atonement… the High Priest would  take blood from the most holy sacrifice into the Most Holy Place, and there sprinkle it on the front of the atonement cover of the ark, thereby  atoning for all of the sins of the entire community.  Amazing.

Similarly, verses that speak of prayer bringing atonement without explicitly mentioning sacrifices can do so ONLY because the Temple  was standing, and sacrifices were being made!!!!    It's a fallacy to think that people would have to run to the Temple and make a sacrifice every  time they sinned.  No, the priests were offering sacrifices daily for the community.

As long as the people of Ninevah had a right heart, their sins were forgiven by God because the Temple was still standing and sacrifices were  being made daily and also on the “Day of Atonement”.  God saw that Ninevah was sincere in their quest for forgiveness.  And so God forgave them.

This is equally true when Jesus forgave sins.  Jesus is God… and therefore he was able to see a person's heart and know if a person was sincere or not.  If they were sincere, Jesus forgave them.  The adulterer was sincere… just like the people of Ninevah were sincere… and so both were forgiven.  The Temple was standing in the days of Jonah and and in the days of Jesus.  A sincere plea for forgiveness from Ninevah and the adluterer… coupled with the daily sacrifices in the Temple… pleased God and so He forgave their sins.   But both had to exist.   A sincere heart… and the Temple blood sacrifices worked together.

It wasn't until when the
Temple was destroyed that modern Judaism (thru their Rabbis) concocted the idea that blood sarifice was no longer  necessary.  Blood sacrifice was never an issue until the Temple was destroyed. When it was destroyed, the Rabbis had to come with something  since they rejected Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.  

The Pharisees… the Rabbis… and the Jews who rejected Jesus… they all were left with no Temple to continue their rituals which they relied on for the forgiveness of their sins.   When the Temple was destroyed… they had a choice to make.  Either accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross…. or come up with a brand new way to gain forgiveness.  The Rabbis decided to rely on their creative thinking instead of turning to Christ… and so they came up with the arguments you are now using in here… and which Islam uses.. and which modern day Rabbis use in their attempt to stem the tide of Jews accepting Christ as their Lord and Saviour in record numbers.

So when on Feb. 03 2010 at 04:17 you wrote this:
I have shown conclusively that there is forgiveness without the shedding of Blood and there always has….

I have to respectfully disagree with this bold and optimistic claim of yours.  As I see it… neither you… nor Islam… nor the Rabbis… nor modern Judaism… have conclusively shown that there is forgiveness of sins without the shedding of Blood.

Respectfully
Francis

[bodhitharta]

Quote (francis @ Nov. 17 2010,09:35)

Hello Asana…. The following are comments from Towshab and you about blood sacrifice. On Jan. 03 2008 at 06:06, Towhab wrote:   ——————————————————————————– Christians say that before Jesus died on the cross, the only true way to receive forgiveness of sins was via animal blood sacrifice. Even Hebrews  says Heb 9:22  Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. Was Jesus under the law? What did he say? Mat 5:18  For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. If the new covenant, the covenant that no longer needed blood sacrifice because of Jesus' shed blood had not come until Jesus's death, what of  the following? ================================== Mark 2:5  And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Luke 7:48  And he said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” ================================== What is this? I see no sacrifice here. How can sins be forgiven under the “old covenant” without blood? Towshab also wrote on Jan. 03 2008 at 08:29: ——————————————————————————– You have not answered how Jesus can forgive sin with no shedding of blood when Heb 9:22 says there is no forgiveness without the shedding of  blood. Asana wrote this on Feb. 03 2010 at 04:17: ——————————————————————————– I have shown conclusively that there is forgiveness without the shedding of Blood and there always has. Even when Jesus forgave the adulterer he  did not say now go sacrifice an animal or he himself did not shed his blood. He said God demands Mercy over Sacrifice but most don't know. Asana wrote the following on June 18 2010 at 15:29   ——————————————————————————– Read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by God. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and  they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for  forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur  afternoon? The Book of Jonah! And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Ninevah, by the decree of the King and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast,  herd nor flock taste anything; let them not feed nor drink water; but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God; yea,  let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from  his fierce anger that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said  that he would do unto them; and he did not do it. [Jonah 3:7-10] Please notice that Jonah tells us that God saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and God forgave them. It does not  say that God saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that God saw that they had the right faith, but rather it says that God  saw their deeds. There are plenty of other examples that show that we do not need a blood sacrifice for our sins, in order for God to forgive us. (For example, the  giving of incense in Numbers 16:47; the giving of jewelry in Numbers 31:50; and, for Isaiah, a live coal on the lips in Isaiah 6:6-7). However, if I  can show only one time, as we find in the Book of Jonah, where God did not need a blood sacrifice, or a sacrifice of any kind, it proves that we  do not need a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Asana wrote this on Nov. 01 2010 at 17:30   ——————————————————————————– Acts 21:26 (King James Version) 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of  purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them What a sacrifice after Jesus!? I guess my point was well made Asana wrote this on Nov. 04 2010 at 08:24   ——————————————————————————– God forgives no blood sacfrifice needed The following is my response to you and Towhab… In the Old Testament… under the Old Covenant… when we see God or Jesus forgiving the sins of a person or a group of people… you are making  the assumption that no blood sacrifice was offered at all.  That is the assumption you are making.  And I think that this is the error of your  argument.  Your assumption is false to begin with. No one, not even the great Jewish rabbi Rashi, ever disagreed that while the Temple was standing, blood sacrifice was essential. According to  the Talmud, “there is no atonement without the blood” (Yoma 5a, Zebahim 6a, Menahot 93b). There are two main commentaries on the Talmud… the Tosafot and Rashi.   Well, in the Tosafot, the blood is actually called the “fundamental  principle;” … and Rashi's commentary  agrees, and so does the Encyclopedia Judaica. It was foundational; the blood sacrifices were the heart and soul of biblical atonement. But… why do many Rabbis today suggest that blood is not required for atonement when their OWN teachings and ancient history says otherwise?  It's very simple.     The question of what else besides blood can make atonement… this question really didn't become a serious question in Judaism until AFTER  70 C.E., when the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans.  And this is a VERY CRUCIAL fact to remember.   You see… you're entire argument… as well  as Islam's… exists ONLY because you are both using the same arguments that the early Jewish Rabbis came up with when they suddenly found that they had a crises on their hands after their Temple was destroyed by the Romans.  Until then, there was no debate at all about whether blood  was required for atonement. Muhammad did not come up with these arguments.  Islam did not come up with these arguments.  You did not come up with these arguments.   Ahteists did not come up with these arguments.  Christians did not come up with these arguments.  The arguments you are using in here in an attempt to show that blood sacrifice is not needed for atonement… these arguments essentially came from one man… one Jewish Rabbi… Yohanan ben Zaklai.   In  a panic after the Temple was destroyed, he came up with an “alternative” to blood sacrifice. Until then… until 70AD (or C.E.)… everyone agreed that blood was required for atonement.  But now the Temple was destroyed.  What are they  going to do now?  They were in a panic. And it was in the midst of this crisis and chaos which had followed the destruction of the Temple,  that Yohanan ben Zakkai (the father of  “Rabbinic Judaism,” who organized the schools at Yavneh) offered a solution. He told the people that just as sin was surely followed by  punishment, so repentance would surely be followed by redem ption. But how could this happen without the Temple? Yohanan's answer changed  the course of Jewish practice from that day forward. Yohanan taught that although there could no longer be sacrifices, there could be prayer and lovingkindness…  and through them, the Jews might  make atonement for their sins.  He said… “Just as the Jews needed a redemptive act of compassion from God, so must they now act  compassionately in order to make themselves worthy of it.”    In this, Yohanan provided an interim ethic by which Israel could live. Over the years at Yavneh (his schools), that's what became incorporated into the Jewish liturgy and practice which we see today.   What happened at Yavneh was the creation of new Judaism without  the Temple. Notice, however, that this is not biblical teaching.   This is rabbinic teaching.  And that is a key issue you need to remember.  The question is this: is the rabbinic teaching, the Oral Torah, authoritative or not?    Now I don't know about you… but personally,  I totally reject the Oral Torah as authoritative.  I would rather hear what God has to say in the scriptures about a subject than listen to rabbinic teachings.  .After all, as I'm sure you will agree…  Man makes mistakes… but God  doesn't. So anyway, the scriptures clearly teaches that blood sacrifice was needed for all guilt, intentional and unintentional.  Your agruments do not come  from scriptures… but from rabbincal teachings.  And these teachings occured only after the destruction of the Temple. However, people like you and Towshab have brought up scriptures in an attempt to try and argue that blood atonement is not necessary.  So to  be fair and honest… I want to try and go over a few of them and point out certain facts that I think you both have missed. Let's start with Jonah since this seems to be a favorite example of yours which you like to use.  Here is what you wrote in here: On June 18 2010… at 15:29…  Asana wrote the following: “read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by God. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and  they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for  forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur  afternoon? The Book of Jonah! And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Ninevah, by the decree of the King and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast,  herd nor flock taste anything; let them not feed nor drink water; but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God; yea,  let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from  his fierce anger that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said  that he would do unto them; and he did not do it. [Jonah 3:7-10] Please notice that Jonah tells us that God saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and God forgave them. It does not  say that God saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that God saw that they had the right faith, but rather it says that God  saw their deeds. There are plenty of other examples that show that we do not need a blood sacrifice for our sins, in order for God to forgive us. (For example, the  giving of incense in Numbers 16:47; the giving of jewelry in Numbers 31:50; and, for Isaiah, a live coal on the lips in Isaiah 6:6-7). However, if I  can show only one time, as we find in the Book of Jonah, where God did not need a blood sacrifice, or a sacrifice of any kind, it proves that we  do not need a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.” Well… here is the problem with your argument.  In the days of Jonah… and in the days when Jesus was forgiving the adulterer and others… the  Temple STILL EXISTED.  Why is that important?  Because in the Temple,  blood sacrifice was occuring on the behalf of those who sought  forgiveness.   You see, Blood sacrifice WAS ALWAYS REQUIRED… but it WASN'T required for a person to offer a blood sacrifice FOR EACH OF HIS SINS each day.   Can you imagine how insane that would be?  Imagine a person who sins maybe twice a day.  That means he would have to offer two blood  sacrifices each day.  Multiply that by millions of Jews doing the same thing, and you can see that there would be millions of animals being sacrificed EACH DAY!!!    Not only that… but imagine millions of Jews having to descend onto the Temple EACH DAY… sometimes twice or three times a day… to offer a blood sacrifice.  That is pure nonsense. Instead, God offered a more simple and practical solution.  And if you look at the work of the priests on a daily basis in the Temple when it was still standing… as well as the work of the High Priest once a year on the “Day of Atonement” (Yom Kippur), you'll see what really was going on in the Temple and throughout the year in terms of atonement and blood sacrifice.  So let's take a look at the process. One of the duties of the priests in the Temple revolved around the morning and evening sacrifices offered on behalf of the community of Israel   (Ex. 29:38-44).  Did you notice that?  There were sacrifices being made morning and evening on behalf of those who asked for repetance. Not only that… but one of those priests was specially designated as the great, or high priest.  And one of the duties that this priest was responsible for, was to offer a special “most holy” sacrifice on behalf of the people which was to be preceded by a special sacrfice first for his own sin (Ex. 30;10 and Lev. 9; 16).  This most holy sacrfice was to be preformed only once a year on what is known in Hebrew as Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the tenth day of the seventh month of Tishri (Sept. 0 Oct) (Lev. 23:26-32).  It was to atone for all of the sins of the entire community (Lev. 16:34) Did you notice that?  Not only were there daily blood sacrifices for the sins of the people… but there was also a special “Day of Atonement” each  year which offered a blood sacrifice to atone for all of the sins of the people.   During Yom Kippur… the Day of Atonement… the High Priest would  take blood from the most holy sacrifice into the Most Holy Place, and there sprinkle it on the front of the atonement cover of the ark, thereby  atoning for all of the sins of the entire community.  Amazing. Similarly, verses that speak of prayer bringing atonement without explicitly mentioning sacrifices can do so ONLY because the Temple  was standing, and sacrifices were being made!!!!    It's a fallacy to think that people would have to run to the Temple and make a sacrifice every  time they sinned.  No, the priests were offering sacrifices daily for the community. As long as the people of Ninevah had a right heart, their sins were forgiven by God because the Temple was still standing and sacrifices were  being made daily and also on the “Day of Atonement”.  God saw that Ninevah was sincere in their quest for forgiveness.  And so God forgave them. This is equally true when Jesus forgave sins.  Jesus is God… and therefore he was able to see a person's heart and know if a person was sincere or not.  If they were sincere, Jesus forgave them.  The adulterer was sincere… just like the people of Ninevah were sincere… and so both were forgiven.  The Temple was standing in the days of Jonah and and in the days of Jesus.  A sincere plea for forgiveness from Ninevah and the adluterer… coupled with the daily sacrifices in the Temple… pleased God and so He forgave their sins.   But both had to exist.   A sincere heart… and the Temple blood sacrifices worked together. It wasn't until when the Temple was destroyed that modern Judaism (thru their Rabbis) concocted the idea that blood sarifice was no longer  necessary.  Blood sacrifice was never an issue until the Temple was destroyed. When it was destroyed, the Rabbis had to come with something  since they rejected Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.   The Pharisees… the Rabbis… and the Jews who rejected Jesus… they all were left with no Temple to continue their rituals which they relied on for the forgiveness of their sins.   When the Temple was destroyed… they had a choice to make.  Either accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross…. or come up with a brand new way to gain forgiveness.  The Rabbis decided to rely on their creative thinking instead of turning to Christ… and so they came up with the arguments you are now using in here… and which Islam uses.. and which modern day Rabbis use in their attempt to stem the tide of Jews accepting Christ as their Lord and Saviour in record numbers. So when on Feb. 03 2010 at 04:17 you wrote this: I have shown conclusively that there is forgiveness without the shedding of Blood and there always has…. I have to respectfully disagree with this bold and optimistic claim of yours.  As I see it… neither you… nor Islam… nor the Rabbis… nor modern Judaism… have conclusively shown that there is forgiveness of sins without the shedding of Blood. Respectfully Francis

John Baptiized for the REMISSION of SINs

Nineveh's population was not part of Israel and had nothing to do with the Jewish Temple

Jesus is not God although this is not the topic right now I worship the God of Jesus. The God that Jesus worshiped is the God of Abraham:

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:21-23

Isaiah 6:6-7 (King James Version)
6Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

You didn't explain this verse at all.

and what do you make of this scripture:

Jeremiah 7:22-23 (King James Version)
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you

So they were never needed or commanded

Psalm 50:12-15 (King James Version)
12If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
13Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?
14Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
15And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

Now I will teach you about a colossal work of Apostle Paul who misquoted the OLD TESTAMENT by saying

Hebrews 10:3-5 (King James Version)
3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

WAIT a MINUTE does the OLD TESTAMENT really say “But a Body has thou prepared for me”?

But wait watch this great feat:

Hebrews 10:6-9 (King James Version)
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

WOW!!! Isn't this still hinging on “But a Body has thou prepared for me” Now LOOK:

Psalm 40:5-9 (King James Version)
5Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
6Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

WAIT 1 MINUTE did you find the switching point:

Psalm 40:6 (King James Version)
6Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Remember Paul quoted this: “But a Body has thou prepared for me”

But The OT says this: “mine ears hast thou opened”

And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mark 4:8-10

God Bless!!!

[thehappyman]

In Gen 3 was the first blood sacifice, and then Christ the annointed one shed his blood for all who believe in Him or without the shedding of the blood you cannot be saved. Forgiven yes , then by faith we have the hope in Christ Jesus for eternal life for the blood has wash away your sins and placed in the depths of the sea never to be remembered again. …..

[bodhitharta]

Francis,

God bless you and your wife and I hope she stays healthy and strong(God willing)

What I see from your post is years and years of investment so you are not about to take on anything new and I understand that. A few points though.

To me Muhammad is simply a man and the Quran teaches this as well there is no reverence for Muhammad although there is priase for all the Prophets of God. Jesus is actually more spoken of in the Quran than Muhammad. All Muslims understand that Jesus is The Messiah.

Say ye: “we believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam).”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #136)

John preached Baptism for THE REMISSION of SINS

Luke 3:2-3 (King James Version)
2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

and Jesus clearly says himself:

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:12-14

and

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:16-18

“But, without doubt, I am (also) He that forgives again and again, to those who repent, believe, and do right, who,- in fine, are ready to receive true guidance.”
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #82)

Jesus didn't say blood was needed he said he came to call sinners to repentance and this is “Islam” calling sinners to repent and have Faith in the Grace of God.

Now you also said that the flesh of Jesus wasn't God and I agree so why then do you call Jesus who was the person in the flesh “God”?

Also if God is ONE there is no way to worship 1/3 of God unless you believe that God is divisible.

Anyway, I will close with this:

Ecclesiastes 12:10-15 (King James Version)
10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
11The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
12And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

God Bless you brother, (God knows best)

[bodhitharta]

Regarding sins needing blood to be forgiven

That doesn't make sense because no Jew was expecting the Messiah to be killed or crucified if they were it would have been expressed throughout the gospels but when he said their sins are forgiven they believed it from that point because it was true from that point. Jesus was given the Authority to forgive sins not after he was “crucified” the demons followed his command to get out of the possesed before crucifixion they did not wait for Jesus to be crucified, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead before “Crucifixion” so no one had faith in a “Crucified” Jesus if they did the disciples would not have been afraid when it occured but they were hiding because they though something went wrong not right

Jesus said GOD is a SPIRIT:

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:23-25

Jesus was not and is not a spirit because after he was “resurrected” what does the scripture say?

Luke 24:39 (King James Version)
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

So the fact is the resurrected Jesus had FLESH and therefore cannot be GOD who is a SPIRIT

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1 John 4:1-3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 John 4:2-4

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2 John 1:6-8

Jesus Christ came in the FLESH and was taken up in THE FLESH and therefore cannot be GOD

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