Jehovah's witnesses

[david]

First, the number seven which is used a lot, seems to represent “completeness.”

“Seven seals open into the blowing of seven trumpets, then into seven plagues. There are seven lampstands, seven stars, seven thunders, and many other things by sevens, evidently because the number seven here represents completeness, and the book deals with the completion of the sacred secret of God.—Re 10:7”–Insight, Vol 2.

Quote

Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'?

No, first, they don't believe all the seven's are literally sevens.

Here's what they believe:

“John beheld the glorified Jesus Christ, who “holds the seven stars in his right hand” and who “walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands,” or congregations. The “stars” are “the angels of the seven congregations.” (Revelation 1:20; 2:1) Stars sometimes symbolize angelic spirit creatures, but Christ would not use a man to record messages for spirit creatures. Hence, these “stars” logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders. The term “angels” relates to their role as messengers. Because God’s organization has grown, “the faithful steward” has also appointed qualified men of Jesus’ “other sheep” as overseers.—Luke 12:42-44; John 10:16.
4 The “stars” are in Jesus’ right hand—within his power, control, favor, and protection. Therefore, they are accountable to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations. Of course, all Christians need to listen to God’s Son. (Mark 9:7)”

“But what about “the seven stars”? In the first place, they symbolized all the spirit-begotten, anointed overseers caring for the first-century congregations. The overseers were in Jesus’ right hand—under his control and direction.*”
footnote: “The “stars” here do not symbolize literal angels. Jesus would hardly use a human to record information for invisible spirit creatures. The “stars” must therefore represent the human overseers, or elders, in the congregations, viewed as Jesus’ messengers. Their number being seven signifies divinely determined completeness.”

Simply put, they believe:
“the seven stars represent all anointed elders in those congregations.”

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 30 2010,14:45)

Im not sure why you would think that.

Hi David,

That is NOT an answer!
Are you saying that is not what 'your organization' teaches?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[david]

Ed, flip the page.

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 30 2010,14:57)

First, the number seven which is used a lot, seems to represent “completeness.” “Seven seals open into the blowing of seven trumpets, then into seven plagues. There are seven lampstands, seven stars, seven thunders, and many other things by sevens, evidently because the number seven here represents completeness, and the book deals with the completion of the sacred secret of God.—Re 10:7”–Insight, Vol 2. Quote Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'? No, first, they don't believe all the seven's are literally sevens. Here's what they believe: “John beheld the glorified Jesus Christ, who “holds the seven stars in his right hand” and who “walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands,” or congregations. The “stars” are “the angels of the seven congregations.” (Revelation 1:20; 2:1) Stars sometimes symbolize angelic spirit creatures, but Christ would not use a man to record messages for spirit creatures. Hence, these “stars” logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders. The term “angels” relates to their role as messengers. Because God’s organization has grown, “the faithful steward” has also appointed qualified men of Jesus’ “other sheep” as overseers.—Luke 12:42-44; John 10:16. 4 The “stars” are in Jesus’ right hand—within his power, control, favor, and protection. Therefore, they are accountable to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations. Of course, all Christians need to listen to God’s Son. (Mark 9:7)” “But what about “the seven stars”? In the first place, they symbolized all the spirit-begotten, anointed overseers caring for the first-century congregations. The overseers were in Jesus’ right hand—under his control and direction.*” footnote: “The “stars” here do not symbolize literal angels. Jesus would hardly use a human to record information for invisible spirit creatures. The “stars” must therefore represent the human overseers, or elders, in the congregations, viewed as Jesus’ messengers. Their number being seven signifies divinely determined completeness.” Simply put, they believe: “the seven stars represent all anointed elders in those congregations.”

Hi David,

OK, fair enough; Thank you.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi David,

Is an regular pioneer required to spend 70 hours per month knocking on doors handing
out literature, while an auxiliary pioneer is only required to spend 50 hours per month?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[david]

Really, anyone can spend as much time as they want preaching the good news that Jesus commissioned us to preach. (Mat 28:19,20)
If a person says, 'I'm going to spend more than the usual amount of time in June, because I'm on holidays and have extra time,' they may choose to auxilery pioneer for example, that is, spend 50 hours preaching that month. It gives them a goal I guess.

[Ed J]

Hi David,

Does 'your visible organization' tell elderly baptized members to will their
finances to 'your organization' instead of their non-baptized Children?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[david]

Hi Ed, ok, I don't know which site you are getting your information from. You keep saying things that simply aren't true.

Maybe like 1%-3% of witnesses would do that (whether their children are baptized or not.) They would not leave their children in need if they needed the money. I think you confuse JW's with the Catholic church, who tried to squeeze every penny out of my grandmother before she died.

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 31 2010,16:58)

Hi Ed, ok, I don't know which site you are getting your information from.  You keep saying things that simply aren't true.

Hi David,

Why do you make false accusations against me? (Rev.12:10)
Is not 'your purpose' to reveal “The Truth”?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2010,16:06)

Quote (david @ July 30 2010,14:57) First, the number seven which is used a lot, seems to represent “completeness.” “Seven seals open into the blowing of seven trumpets, then into seven plagues. There are seven lampstands, seven stars, seven thunders, and many other things by sevens, evidently because the number seven here represents completeness, and the book deals with the completion of the sacred secret of God.—Re 10:7”–Insight, Vol 2. Quote Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'? No, first, they don't believe all the seven's are literally sevens. Here's what they believe: “John beheld the glorified Jesus Christ, who “holds the seven stars in his right hand” and who “walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands,” or congregations. The “stars” are “the angels of the seven congregations.” (Revelation 1:20; 2:1) Stars sometimes symbolize angelic spirit creatures, but Christ would not use a man to record messages for spirit creatures. Hence, these “stars” logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders. The term “angels” relates to their role as messengers. Because God’s organization has grown, “the faithful steward” has also appointed qualified men of Jesus’ “other sheep” as overseers.—Luke 12:42-44; John 10:16. 4 The “stars” are in Jesus’ right hand—within his power, control, favor, and protection. Therefore, they are accountable to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations. Of course, all Christians need to listen to God’s Son. (Mark 9:7)” “But what about “the seven stars”? In the first place, they symbolized all the spirit-begotten, anointed overseers caring for the first-century congregations. The overseers were in Jesus’ right hand—under his control and direction.*” footnote: “The “stars” here do not symbolize literal angels. Jesus would hardly use a human to record information for invisible spirit creatures. The “stars” must therefore represent the human overseers, or elders, in the congregations, viewed as Jesus’ messengers. Their number being seven signifies divinely determined completeness.” Simply put, they believe: “the seven stars represent all anointed elders in those congregations.” Hi David, OK, fair enough; Thank you. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi David,

You confirmed this!

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 30 2010,16:20)

Really, anyone can spend as much time as they want preaching the good news that Jesus commissioned us to preach. (Mat 28:19,20) If a person says, 'I'm going to spend more than the usual amount of time in June, because I'm on holidays and have extra time,' they may choose to auxilery pioneer for example, that is, spend 50 hours preaching that month.  It gives them a goal I guess.

Hi David,

You confirmed this?

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 31 2010,16:58)

Hi Ed, Maybe like 1%-3% of witnesses would do that…

Hi David,

Where do 'you' get information from?
How can this be verified? (1Thess.5:21)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[david]

Quote (Ed J @ July 31 2010,17:11)

Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2010,16:06) Quote (david @ July 30 2010,14:57) First, the number seven which is used a lot, seems to represent “completeness.” “Seven seals open into the blowing of seven trumpets, then into seven plagues. There are seven lampstands, seven stars, seven thunders, and many other things by sevens, evidently because the number seven here represents completeness, and the book deals with the completion of the sacred secret of God.—Re 10:7”–Insight, Vol 2. Quote Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'? No, first, they don't believe all the seven's are literally sevens. Here's what they believe: “John beheld the glorified Jesus Christ, who “holds the seven stars in his right hand” and who “walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands,” or congregations. The “stars” are “the angels of the seven congregations.” (Revelation 1:20; 2:1) Stars sometimes symbolize angelic spirit creatures, but Christ would not use a man to record messages for spirit creatures. Hence, these “stars” logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders. The term “angels” relates to their role as messengers. Because God’s organization has grown, “the faithful steward” has also appointed qualified men of Jesus’ “other sheep” as overseers.—Luke 12:42-44; John 10:16. 4 The “stars” are in Jesus’ right hand—within his power, control, favor, and protection. Therefore, they are accountable to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations. Of course, all Christians need to listen to God’s Son. (Mark 9:7)” “But what about “the seven stars”? In the first place, they symbolized all the spirit-begotten, anointed overseers caring for the first-century congregations. The overseers were in Jesus’ right hand—under his control and direction.*” footnote: “The “stars” here do not symbolize literal angels. Jesus would hardly use a human to record information for invisible spirit creatures. The “stars” must therefore represent the human overseers, or elders, in the congregations, viewed as Jesus’ messengers. Their number being seven signifies divinely determined completeness.” Simply put, they believe: “the seven stars represent all anointed elders in those congregations.” Hi David, OK, fair enough; Thank you. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi David, You confirmed this!

Ed, have you lost it?

Your question was:

Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'?

Ed, I did not agree with any part of it. So in what sense was your statment correct? did you even read my answer? Nope, guess not. So why should I continue to answer your questions?

[david]

Quote (Ed J @ July 31 2010,17:13)

Quote (david @ July 31 2010,16:58) Hi Ed, Maybe like 1%-3% of witnesses would do that… Hi David, Where do 'you' get information from? How can this be verified? (1Thess.5:21) Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Notice I said “MAYBE LIKE….”

JW's are not told to keep money from their non-baptized relatives, but instead to give it to the society.

My “maybe like” was an educated guess.

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 31 2010,17:24)

Quote (Ed J @ July 31 2010,17:11) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2010,16:06) Quote (david @ July 30 2010,14:57) First, the number seven which is used a lot, seems to represent “completeness.” “Seven seals open into the blowing of seven trumpets, then into seven plagues. There are seven lampstands, seven stars, seven thunders, and many other things by sevens, evidently because the number seven here represents completeness, and the book deals with the completion of the sacred secret of God.—Re 10:7”–Insight, Vol 2. Quote Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'? No, first, they don't believe all the seven's are literally sevens. Here's what they believe: “John beheld the glorified Jesus Christ, who “holds the seven stars in his right hand” and who “walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands,” or congregations. The “stars” are “the angels of the seven congregations.” (Revelation 1:20; 2:1) Stars sometimes symbolize angelic spirit creatures, but Christ would not use a man to record messages for spirit creatures. Hence, these “stars” logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders. The term “angels” relates to their role as messengers. Because God’s organization has grown, “the faithful steward” has also appointed qualified men of Jesus’ “other sheep” as overseers.—Luke 12:42-44; John 10:16. 4 The “stars” are in Jesus’ right hand—within his power, control, favor, and protection. Therefore, they are accountable to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations. Of course, all Christians need to listen to God’s Son. (Mark 9:7)” “But what about “the seven stars”? In the first place, they symbolized all the spirit-begotten, anointed overseers caring for the first-century congregations. The overseers were in Jesus’ right hand—under his control and direction.*” footnote: “The “stars” here do not symbolize literal angels. Jesus would hardly use a human to record information for invisible spirit creatures. The “stars” must therefore represent the human overseers, or elders, in the congregations, viewed as Jesus’ messengers. Their number being seven signifies divinely determined completeness.” Simply put, they believe: the seven stars represent all anointed elders in those congregations.” Hi David, OK, fair enough; Thank you. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi David, You confirmed this! Ed, have you lost it? Your question was: Does 'your organization' consider “The Seven Stars” of Rev.2:1 to be 'Seven Circuit Overseers'? Ed, I did not agree with any part of it.  So in what sense was your statment correct?  did you even read my answer?  Nope, guess not.  So why should I continue to answer your questions?

Hi David,

The essence of my question was indeed answered!
I have emboldened it for all to see you answered.

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 31 2010,17:26)

Quote (Ed J @ July 31 2010,17:13) Quote (david @ July 31 2010,16:58) Hi Ed, Maybe like 1%-3% of witnesses would do that… Hi David, Where do 'you' get information from? How can this be verified? (1Thess.5:21) Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Notice I said “MAYBE LIKE….”   JW's are not told to keep money from their non-baptized relatives, but instead to give it to the society. My “maybe like” was an educated guess.

Hi David,

Are baptized elderly members allowed to will their finances to
a family member that was previously a baptized member and
has since quit 'your visible organization'?

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[david]

What people do with their money is up to them. They can burn it if they like.

[david]

Ed, is one of your parents dying, and were you once a JW? You seem unusually concerned with things that are not true.

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ July 31 2010,17:51)

Ed, (1)is one of your parents dying, (2)and were you once a JW?  (3)You seem unusually concerned with things that are not true.

Hi David,

1) No
2) AKJV Joshua 22:34 (See my signature)
3) Watchtower society publication May 15, 2009 Page 4-5…

'A person of “broad discernment” does not betray a confidence. (Prov.11:12) A true
Christian will not divulge confidential maters through unguarded speech. Christian elders
must be particularly circumspect in this regard so as to retain the trust of members of the congregation.'

Are you an Elder in 'your visible organization'; David?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[david]

so you consider yourself a witness of Jehovah (YHWH), but of course not connected to the group called Jehovah's Witnesses?

And, no, I am not.

[Author]

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