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Blessings David,
I will confess David, long post are not one of my strong points, you have a little history, some number crunching ect…
I understand you have the watchtower to go, to 'pull' this information from. Still leaves me wanting.
You are telling me he is already here, is there not a man in africa saying the same.
Mat 24:25-26 Lo, I did tell you beforehand.
`If therefore they may say to you, Lo, in the wilderness he is, ye may not go forth; lo, in the inner chambers, ye may not believe.Mat 24:32-33 `And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer is nigh, so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh–at the doors.
David, how many comings do you believe in ?
much love
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Unless one is born again they cannot sense the presents of the Holy Spirit and Jesus because His presents is Spiritual.
Those born again hear His voice and follow their Shepherd. Jesus is here but he's been here ever since Pentecost. Again only those born again of the Spirit will hear voice and sense His presents.
Every eye will see him. Not just those born again! The world will see Jesus coming on a cloud just as He left. The first coming was so the world would behold the Son of God and His sacrifice. The second will be so those who refuse Him will see Him and realize that their time has come.
Those led by the Spirit know Jesus is here NOW! And understand the signs now coming to pass.
The Command:
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
The message:
Come out of her MY people
IHN&L,
Ken
Hi Olive. I know this post is long, but it only discusses one thing, one scripture. Well, I guess there are two.
Matt. 24:37-39: “Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence [“coming,” RS, TEV; “presence,” Yg, Ro, ED; Greek, pa·rou·si′a] of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.”
The events of “the days of Noah” that are described here took place over a period of many years. Jesus compared his presence with what occurred back then.
At Matthew 24:37 the Greek word pa·rou·si′a is used. Literally it means a “being alongside.” Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford, 1968) gives “presence, of persons,” as its first definition of pa·rou·si′a. The sense of the word is clearly indicated at Philippians 2:12, where Paul contrasts his presence (pa·rou·si′a) with his absence (a·pou·si′a). On the other hand, in Matthew 24:30, which tells of the “Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” as Jehovah’s executioner at the war of Armageddon, the Greek word er·kho′me·non is used. Some translators use ‘coming’ for both Greek words, but those that are more careful convey the difference between the two.
Shortly before Jesus died, his disciples “were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly.” Then, after his resurrection they asked whether the Kingdom would be set up right away. Also, about ten years before Peter wrote his second letter, some were “excited” by “a verbal message” or “a letter,” reputedly from the apostle Paul or his companions, “to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.” (Luke 19:11; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; Acts 1:6)
Ridiculers may well have mocked faithful Christians because these had as yet unrealized expectations.
Such expectations of Jesus’ disciples, however, were not false, only premature. Jehovah’s day would come.Today, we have unmistakable evidence that we are living in the last days of this present world.
Quote Mat 24:25-26 Lo, I did tell you beforehand.
`If therefore they may say to you, Lo, in the wilderness he is, ye may not go forth; lo, in the inner chambers, ye may not believe.“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Look! I have forewarned you. Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”—Matt. 24:23-28.
Jesus is not coming back as a man. He is a powerful spirit being. His presence will be felt as lightning from east to west over a wide area, not as a man, in the wilderness or in a room.
He would not put in an appearance in some isolated place, “in the wilderness,” so that Messiah seekers should resort to him out there away from observation by the governmental authorities of the land, so that they could train under his leadership out there and prepare to strike a political blow, a coup d’etat, and install him as the Messianic Ruler of the world. (Acts 5:36, 37; compare 1 Samuel 22:1, 2.) Neither would he conceal himself in some “inner chambers,” his location being known to only a select few, that there unobserved and undetected he might conspire and draw up secret plans with accomplices for overturning the world government and have himself anointed as the promised Messiah. (Compare 2 Kings 9:4-14.) To the contrary of this, there was to be nothing to hide about Jesus’ having come as King and beginning his royal presence.He would not locate himself either here or there or in any particular spot on the earth.
Quote You are telling me he is already here, is there not a man in africa saying the same.
Yes, JW's say the same thing everywhere. They speak in agreement. But this man in africa is not saying that Jesus is in the wilderness over there. And nor am I saying he's in any inner chambers over here.
“For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. “Quote Mat 24:32-33 `And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer is nigh, so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh–at the doors. We are not saying that Jesus “coming” has happened, only that we are living in the presence of the son of man….that we are at the doors, “when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh.”
It's nigh or near.
Quote (david @ May 26 2007,18:30) Quote Mat 24:32-33 `And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer is nigh, so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh–at the doors. We are not saying that Jesus “coming” has happened, only that we are living in the presence of the son of man….that we are at the doors, “when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh.”
It's nigh or near.
Jesus' presence has been here since Pentecost.Do you hear Jesus' voice David?
Quote Jesus' presence has been here since Pentecost. Do you hear Jesus' voice David?
““Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence (Gk. pa·rou·si′as)…” (Mat 24:3)
“Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, YOU know that summer is near. Likewise also YOU, when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (24:32-34)
The last 2000 years isn't really a generation. And if these things have been happening since Jesus, then what is the point of a “sign.” Jesus said: “When you see these things…” indicating that they weren't happening from Jesus time on.
Yes, Jesus is with his followers and always has been. (Mat 28:19,20) But his presence is something a little different, as these scriptures bare out.Hi David:
If what you are saying is true, what about the following scripture?
Lu 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.Quote (david @ May 27 2007,07:22) Quote Jesus' presence has been here since Pentecost. Do you hear Jesus' voice David?
““Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence (Gk. pa·rou·si′as)…” (Mat 24:3)
“Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, YOU know that summer is near. Likewise also YOU, when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (24:32-34)
The last 2000 years isn't really a generation. And if these things have been happening since Jesus, then what is the point of a “sign.” Jesus said: “When you see these things…” indicating that they weren't happening from Jesus time on.
Yes, Jesus is with his followers and always has been. (Mat 28:19,20) But his presence is something a little different, as these scriptures bare out.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.Is Jesus lying? Is HE in our midst? HE is if you are born a gain.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Jesus said when His brethren gather He will be in their midst. Is he speaking about the second coming? Did the apostles gather in Jesus' name?
Have angels (spirit beings) ever manifested themselves?
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.Seems Jesus can manifest Himself anytime he wants. However it is the Father who will tell Jesus to come again and harvest the field.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Should we limit God to fit our doctrine and pride?
Denominations mean nothing to God!! On that day they will say Lord, Lord did we not ………….. May be today it should be they will say Lord, Lord aren't I Baptists and did many works.
It doesn't matter if you know all of man's creeds, say the rosary, preach Jesus all you want but if you don't keep the Commandments of God Jesus will say He never knew you.
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
If you knew what day and hour of the second coming will that save you.
If you know the commandments but don't keep (do) the Commandments then you are a worker of lawlessness.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
This is THE COMMAND!
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
This is the warning!
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
How long is a Christian generation?
The Christian generation will still be here when Jesus begins the harvest.
Jesus is present NOW!
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote Hi David: If what you are saying is true, what about the following scripture?
Lu 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.Hi 94. I “see” what you're saying. But, usually, things that are “in a cloud” are obscured from us physically seeing them.
I believe everyone will see (understand, or percieve) Jesus coming just as we all can see a cloud in the sky, but I'm not speaking literally seeing Jesus.People will not see him with their literal eyes. Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.” (1 tim 6:16) (Here Paul is comparing Jesus with human rulers. See verse 15, compare Acts 9:3.)
I think that's pretty clear.
Jesus does not need to take on a human form to bee “seen” by the inhabitants of the earth any more than Jehovah needed to do so when he brought the Ten Plagues on the Egyptians in the days of Moses. The people of that time had no doubt that Jehovah was causing the plagues, and they were forced to recognize his power. (Ex 12:31)
Quote Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Is Jesus lying? Is HE in our midst? HE is if you are born a gain.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Jesus said when His brethren gather He will be in their midst. Is he speaking about the second coming? Did the apostles gather in Jesus' name?
Hi Kenrch, I'm not sure how any of this argues agaisnt what the Bible says.Quote Should we limit God to fit our doctrine and pride?
That's exactly what I'm saying. We shouldn't. Many have.MATTHEW 25:37
“Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink?”JOHN 14:19
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but YOU will behold me, because I live and YOU will live.”1 PETER 3:18
“Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”Everything else you said had nothing actually do to with what you were trying to prove. It seems you went on some rant about organized religion. How does this help anyone to understand why you believe that Jesus will come and be visible to all, literally.
Hi david,
You say
“Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.” (1 tim 6:16)”But in context 1Tim 6 refers to God imho.
1Tim 6
” 13I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Quote (david @ May 28 2007,13:28) Quote Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Is Jesus lying? Is HE in our midst? HE is if you are born a gain.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Jesus said when His brethren gather He will be in their midst. Is he speaking about the second coming? Did the apostles gather in Jesus' name?
Hi Kenrch, I'm not sure how any of this argues agaisnt what the Bible says.Quote Should we limit God to fit our doctrine and pride?
That's exactly what I'm saying. We shouldn't. Many have.MATTHEW 25:37
“Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink?”JOHN 14:19
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but YOU will behold me, because I live and YOU will live.”1 PETER 3:18
“Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”Everything else you said had nothing actually do to with what you were trying to prove. It seems you went on some rant about organized religion. How does this help anyone to understand why you believe that Jesus will come and be visible to all, literally.
Sorry David it's just that the harlot has “many” daughters
Simply put Jesus' prensence has been here since Pentecost!
Why do the daughter's of the Harlot always complicate the pure and simple truth of God's Word.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Is Jesus lying? Is HE in our midst? HE is if you are born a gain.
Did Jesus say that He would be here Spiritually? Then I don't understand how anyone can say Jesus came in the nineteenth century. When Scripture says plainly that Jesus has been here (Spiritually) since Pentecost.
While the JWs have some truth just as all of the Harlot's daughters they lack the Spirit.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I'll say it again you cannot understand the word of God unless you follow it's author. It is a Spiritual book. In SPIRIT and Truth, not just one or the other.
If you sincerely seek God then He will give you His Spirit.
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
If the Holy Spirit says something then it will line up with the word. If it doesn't then either that was not the Holy Spirit which would be against the above scripture OR we fail in understanding the word because we look through the way we are taught by man instead of God.
See:
G3700
ὀπτάνομαι, ὄπτομαι
optanomai optomai
op-tan'-om-ahee, op'-tom-ahee
The first a (middle voice) prolonged form of the second (primary) which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternates of G3708; to gaze (that is, with wide open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from G991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from G1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while G2300, and still more emphatically its intensive G2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and G4648 a watching from a distance): – appear, look, see, shew self.EYE:
G3788
ὀφθαλμός
ophthalmos
of-thal-mos'
From G3700; the eye (literally or figuratively); by implication vision; figuratively envy (from the jealous side glance): – eye, sight.Aren't the JWs reading into Rev. 1:7 what they want to prove their doctrine?
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Every Eye shall SEE Him.
IHN&L,
Ken
Nick, I'd rather not go on a tangent, but I had said:
“Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.” (1 tim 6:16) (Here Paul is comparing Jesus with human rulers. See verse 15, compare Acts 9:3.)”
I knew someone would call me on it.
I believe, “imho” that this has to be comparing Jesus to human rulers. No doubt that this is a tricky scripture. There are points that make it seem like it could go either way. It speaks of the one in question as “the one alone having immortality.”
We know God has immortality. I believe Jesus has been given immortality. (I could find some scriptures, if you like) Since they both have immortality, it has to be talking about something more specific, not everyone possilbe (unless you believe they are the same person). I believe it is talking about Jesus compared to human rulers. This scripture also says he's the “only potentate.” Of course, Jehovah is also a potentate. So, again, it has to be talking about something more specific.
Actually, I'll look this up and tell you what JW's believe on this, since this is a thread about them:
The apostle Paul wrote: “This manifestation the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, he the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”—1 Timothy 6:15, 16.
Bible commentators generally reason: ‘How could such phrases as “the one alone having immortality,” the “only Potentate,” and the one “whom not one of men has seen or can see” point to anyone other than the Almighty?’ Admittedly, such terms could be used to describe Jehovah. However, the context indicates that at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16, Paul was specifically referring to Jesus.
At the end of verse 14, Paul mentions “the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Timothy 6:14) Hence, when Paul writes in verse 15 that “this manifestation the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times,” he is referring to a manifestation of Jesus, not of Jehovah God. Who, then, is the “only Potentate”? It seems reasonable to conclude that Jesus is the Potentate referred to by Paul. Why? The context makes it evident that Paul is comparing Jesus with human rulers. Jesus truly is, as Paul wrote, “King of those [humans] who rule as kings and Lord of those [humans] who rule as lords.” Yes, compared to them, Jesus is the “only Potentate.” Jesus has been given “rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.” (Daniel 7:14) No human potentate can make that claim!
What about the phrase “the one alone having immortality”? Again, a comparison is being drawn between Jesus and human kings. No earthly rulers can claim to have been granted immortality, but Jesus can. Paul wrote: “We know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” (Romans 6:9) Thus, Jesus is the first one to be described in the Bible as receiving the gift of immortality. Indeed, at the time of Paul’s writing, Jesus was the only one who had attained indestructible life.
It should also be kept in mind that it would have been wrong for Paul to say that Jehovah God alone had immortality, since Jesus too was immortal when Paul wrote those words. But Paul could say that Jesus alone was immortal in comparison with earthly rulers.
Further, it is certainly true that after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven, he can be described as one “whom not one of men has seen or can see.” Granted, his anointed disciples would behold Jesus after their own death and subsequent resurrection to heaven as spirit creatures. (John 17:24) But no man on earth would see Jesus in his glorified state. Hence, it can truthfully be stated that since Jesus’ resurrection and ascension, “not one of men” has actually seen Jesus.
True, at first glance, it may seem as if the descriptions found at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16 could apply to God. But the context of Paul’s words—along with the corroboration of other scriptures—shows that Paul was referring to Jesus.
*Similar expressions are applied to Jesus at 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6; Revelation 17:12, 14; 19:16.
How can Jesus be “the one alone having immortality”?
The first one described in the Bible as rewarded with the gift of immortality is Jesus Christ. That he did not possess immortality before his resurrection by God is seen from the inspired apostle’s words at Romans 6:9: “Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” (Compare Re 1:17, 18.) For this reason, when describing him as “the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,” 1 Timothy 6:15, 16 shows that Jesus is distinct from all such other kings and lords in that he is “the one alone having immortality.” The other kings and lords, because of being mortal, die, even as did also the high priests of Israel. The glorified Jesus, God’s appointed High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, however, has “an indestructible life.”—Heb 7:15-17, 23-25.
Kenrch:
Quote Simply put Jesus' prensence has been here since Pentecost! Then why did his apostles ask for a sign of this presence? (Mat 24:3)
I believe the “Lord's day” spoken of in Revelation 1:10 I think, begins with the presence of Jesus and goes right to the end of the millenlian reign. Revelation was written to tell the things that would take place in the futere and it was written after pentecost.
Quote Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. –kencrh
. Jesus had promised to be with his followers in their meeting together (Mt 18:20), and he also assured them that he would be ‘with them’ in their discipling work “all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Mt 28:19, 20) The pa·rou·si′a of Matthew 24:3 and related texts, of course, must signify something beyond this. It clearly relates to a special presence, one involving and affecting all earth’s inhabitants and inseparably connected with Jesus’ expression of full authority as King anointed by God.
Among the events marking Jesus’ presence in Kingdom power are: The resurrection of those of his followers who have died, these being joint heirs with him to the heavenly Kingdom (1Co 15:23; Ro 8:17); his gathering together and bringing into union with himself other followers who are living at the time of his presence (Mt 24:31; 2Th 2:1); his ‘bringing to nothing’ the apostate “man of lawlessness,” this being accomplished “by the manifestation [e·pi·pha·nei′ai] of his [Jesus’] presence” ; the destruction of all those who give no heed to the opportunity for deliverance (Mt 24:37-39); and, of necessity, the introduction of his Thousand Year Reign (Re 20:1-6). See also the article TRANSFIGURATION for information on the way in which observers of that vision of Christ in Kingdom glory were enabled to acquaint others with “the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—2Pe 1:16-18.
David as you said Jesus promised He would never leave or anandon us. His presence started on Pentecost through the Holy Spirit.
Revelation 1:10 John say he was in the spirit on the Lord's day. That day is the great and terrible day of the LORD.
Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Why did Jesus say every eye would see Him. Why did He say
it would be as lightning?Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
WOW! Lightening from one part of heaven to the other part of heaven.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Seems physical to me, lightening, in the desert, SECRET CHAMBERS Ummmm.
Every eye will see Him. Lightening for one side of heaven to another! Great and terrible day of the Lord.
Jesus' presence has been here for 200 years. The second coming will manifest Himself so everyone will see him Just as He appeared to Thomas, and ate broiled fish.
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.IHN&L,
Ken
Hi david.
Quote (david @ May 26 2007,12:25) Quote Because all sinners nailed him to the cross and all sinners pierced him. If there were no sinners, he wouldn't have hung on the tree.
T8,
So then, you nailed him to the cross, T8? You believe you did this.Question. Why would you do this? Yes, it had to be done. And there was no question that it would be done, for it was God's will.
But why would you do it?
Quote This didn't happen in 1914 and we know that Christ will rule from Jerusalem. Have you been to Jerusalem? Have you heard of “NEW Jerusalem,” “heavenly Jersusalem,” the “Jerusalem above.”
If you think it's the same old earthly Jerusalem, then why these terms?
My sin, nailed him there.I can only be thankful and humble myself. Even my righteousness is but filthy rags.
But in Christ I have the victory. Victory over sin and death.
I am not unusual either. The same can be said about any disciple of Christ.
To david.
Quote (david @ May 26 2007,12:20) Quote For me no matter how I look at the idea of Christ's return in 1914, it is against the advice that Jesus gave us about his own return.
Again, you are arguing against something we do not believe.
If I said Christ was coming back in 2008 and he didn't come, then I would be wrong. If I said that it was his presence that came in 2008, then I would still be wrong. Because Christ will come in glory and every eye shall see him.His coming was written in such a way because it described the manner of his coming. Such a description also catches out those who say they are the Christ or put a date on his coming and it doesn't come to pass.
The JW who prophesied that Christ would come in 1914 was caught out. He was wrong. Christ didn't come in 1914.
Remember when Yahweh.com predicted nuclear war in 2006?
Well that didn't happen. Anyone can say something is going to happen and then when it doesn't come up with some excuse.
On Youtube under this video, I read the following comment. It reminds me of the JWs and their embarrassing prophecies.
Quote This nuclear baby was conceived September 12, 2006 and just as with a woman with child, nine months later the delivery is due, which will bring us to June 12, 2007. This nuclear baby will actually kill one-third of man over a fourth part of the earth <— *LOL* i had to check their page and well it seems like they changed the date for the nuclear holocaust -_- i almost feel sorry for them *lol* t8, thank you for sharing all of this.
David, this has been my confusion with the JW's from the beginning….the 1914 thing. I just don't understand it.
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