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Hi charity,
Wrong.
I love the OT.
But it has never really been about you and me or men in general but the work of God among them.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2007,15:27) Hi charity,
Wrong.
I love the OT.
But it has never really been about you and me or men in general but the work of God among them.
Why do you desire to hear nothing besides what you think in your own Knowledge OF UNDERSTANDING Nick;
YOUR THE MOUTH HAND AND FOOT and arm in need of nothing?
And you spend your time preventing anyone else form hearing OTHERS OPINIONS that they may EVEN discern for themselves what is Good AND RIGHTEOUS.Others have Good things to contribute and chew on.
but for one thing that they cause “you” distress in ; they become the enemies to be compassed ; to discredit every post?Hi charity,
You bring the thought that Christ was born of the preserved sperm of David and we all hear your UNWRITTEN view. You cast aspersions on the OT prophets and apostles and we all listen. You tell us Christ is Michael, an angel.It has not taken root here not because of us but because it is not of truth.
Must we also agree?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2007,15:50) Hi charity,
You bring the thought that Christ was born of the preserved sperm of David and we all hear your UNWRITTEN view. You cast aspersions on the OT prophets and apostles and we all listen. You tell us Christ is Michael, an angel.It has not taken root here not because of us but because it is not of truth.
Must we also agree?
What are your motives Nickthis is your perception; I have never called a seed a sperm??
Can you see what you dealings towards people?
moving off in your own knowledge; this is unjust and leaves others thinking that was what the person said? marking them?What is your Motive?
Hi charity,
Service.
Just a sign post.
Sometimes pointing towards life helps people and sometimes it draws stones.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2007,16:15) Hi charity,
Service.
Just a sign post.
Sometimes pointing towards life helps people and sometimes it draws stones.
HERE'S A sign post for you Nickcan you try to find something in one post MADE by a person that you dislike? AT LEAST ONE GOOD THING that you MAY affirm in THAT person that THEY TOO ARE Gods creation
For we have all been made subject to vanity unwillingly;
but also we look for the manifested Sons of God
That God has created us all
and has put this earning within us that they The true Sons of God; may not be refused and the earth shall rejoice and be subdued
when the Christians get this together and have their adoption wit the redemption of their bodies?
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.And those Sons Of God will take hold of Justice and establish as Good men worth more than fine Gold.
And not that I havent noticed first friuts happening around here?
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2007,16:55) Hi charity,
Who do I dislike?
thats the prob;
if you HAVE convinced yourself not to see it?
Then ONE CAN walk around up right thinking …no one else can “WHO CAN possibly notice anything”? I CAN'TI dont see nick disliking anyone.All I see is Nick contending for his Faith.All he doing is trying to get some of you to look where you are standing.He is busting down your doors.You folks who believe that Jesus is God are having a hard time with Nick..Because Nick is not refusing the Son of God like some of you people are.You folks who are indoctrinated Doctrines are really hurting yourself.
Why are some of you in One Hand believe he is the Son then in the Other hand claiming he is God the Father or a Angel.
The bible that I read tells me that I must believe in the Son of God..That is it. I dont add anymore to it or take away from it.
If some of you want to preach a False Christ knock your self out.
I know Nick and I wont deny the Son of God or Jesus came in the Flesh.Like many of you all ready did..How? You claim he is something else.
Hi
Really unisage mothers have not brought forth a man child
We are all like a small child
that puts their hands over their eyes
Some how the smallchild thinks
because they can’t see the parent;
The parent can’t see them either?
I am sorry we all need to purge iniquity deceit from our hearts to sound a clear trumpet
For that iniquity deceives you that your own understanding is good and righteous and is Gods?
And sow the seeds accordingly
Now of course if you have taken the name Christian;Do't cover the eyes to transforming the Mind
and become a force in our own eye's
using our own earthly mind cunningly?
Or the Mind using us cunningly?
being unwillingly made subject to vanity?
which is called the wicked will of Man without understanding?
Any sort of earthly minded Man giving himself this kind of authority is deceiving himself his own Knowledge and understanding is that of Gods
Is It good to share what you think is the Knowledge of God? Yes
when it is sown with pride that screams louder towards control?Hi charity,
Choice.
Trust your intuition.
Trust the scriptures.“Choose TODAY Whom you will serve”
“If TODAY you hear his voice harden not your heart”
We are born speaking with the voice of a stranger and must repent that Christ can find room in our minds and the morning star can rise in our heart.
To david.
Quote (david @ May 25 2007,07:50) This passage, then, must be symbolic; after all, how could “those who pierced him” see Christ return?
Because all sinners nailed him to the cross and all sinners pierced him. If there were no sinners, he wouldn't have hung on the tree.To david.
Quote (david @ May 25 2007,07:50) Furthermore, the angels said that Christ would return “in the same manner” as he departed. Well, how did he leave? With millions watching? No, just a few faithful ones beheld the event.
He left in bodily form and went up.So he will come back down to us in visible bodily form.
Except the next time he comes he comes in heavenly glory with the holy ones.
It will be unmistakable.
This didn't happen in 1914 and we know that Christ will rule from Jerusalem. Have you been to Jerusalem?
Quote If he came in 1914, then no eye saw him and then we are really just believing reports that say he is here or there, or he will come in 19??, or he has already come. The second coming of Christ will not be a matter of debate when it happens.
T8, I believe we are mixing up the presence of Christ with the coming of Christ.
Paul spoke of the “last days” of this system of things, of this world. That is a period of time.
What will be the sign of your presence and the conclusion of this system of things (world), he was asked. (Mat 24:3?)
He gave a sign that fortold of wars, earthquakes, the preaching of the good news etc. He said that the kingdom rising against kingdom and nation against nation was a beginning of pangs of distress, a beginning. The conclusion of this system of things would take a while.
(Please read Mat 24)If that “presence” was completely obvious to everyone there would be no need of sign. That's the very purpose of a sign.
Really, you are arguing against something we don't believe.
Quote For me no matter how I look at the idea of Christ's return in 1914, it is against the advice that Jesus gave us about his own return.
Again, you are arguing against something we do not believe.Quote Because all sinners nailed him to the cross and all sinners pierced him. If there were no sinners, he wouldn't have hung on the tree.
T8,
So then, you nailed him to the cross, T8? You believe you did this.Question. Why would you do this? Yes, it had to be done. And there was no question that it would be done, for it was God's will.
But why would you do it?
Quote This didn't happen in 1914 and we know that Christ will rule from Jerusalem. Have you been to Jerusalem? Have you heard of “NEW Jerusalem,” “heavenly Jersusalem,” the “Jerusalem above.”
If you think it's the same old earthly Jerusalem, then why these terms?Quote I have never heard this, 1914 theory before, sounds outlandish to me. Predition of the future by man, is not good David, do you not agree to what is written:
Mar 13:32-33 `And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known–not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son–except the Father. Take heed, watch and pray, for ye have not known when the time is
blessings and love
Hi Olive. While men have made mistakes, we do not say that we know that day or hour.
We do say that Christ's presence began to be felt in 1914 when he hurled Satan the devil down to the earth, casting him out of heaven. It was woe for the earth ever since then. (Rev 12, and Rev 6)
The things seen in the sign Jesus gave to his followers regarding the conclusion of the system of things involved many of the things we've seen since 1914.
“kingdom rising against kingdom and nation against nation.” (mat 24)
Never before has there been world wars. It's as though something snapped and the world changed in that year. (See a few pages back for historians view of that year.)
Following the “Great War” as it was then called was pestilence such as spanish flew, etc. The world really changed in 1914.“Half a century has gone by, yet the mark that the tragedy of the Great War [World War I, which started in 1914] left on the body and soul of the nations has not faded . . . The physical and moral magnitude of this ordeal was such that nothing left was the same as before. Society in its entirety: systems of government, national borders, laws, armed forces, interstate relations, but also ideologies, family life, fortunes, positions, personal relations—everything was changed from top to bottom. . . . Humanity finally lost its balance, never to recover it to this day.”—General Charles de Gaulle, speaking in 1968 (Le Monde, Nov. 12, 1968, p. 9).
“The last completely ‘normal’ year in history was 1913, the year before World War I began.”—Editorial in the Times-Herald, Washington, D.C., March 13, 1949.
“Looking back from the vantage point of the present we see clearly today that the outbreak of World War I ushered in a twentieth-century ‘Time of Troubles’—in the expressive term of the British historian Arnold Toynbee—from which our civilization has by no means yet emerged. Directly or indirectly all the convulsions of the last half century stem back to 1914.”—The Fall of the Dynasties: The Collapse of the Old Order (New York, 1963), Edmond Taylor, p. 16.
Anyway, as I was saying, wars, food shortages, pestilences were fortold.
“World War I took the lives of twice as many men as all major wars from 1790 to 1913 put together.” It noted that total military casualties were over 37,000,000, and added: “The number of civilian deaths in areas of actual war totaled about 5,000,000. Starvation, disease, and exposure accounted for about 80 of every 100 of these civilian deaths. Spanish influenza, which some persons blamed on the war, caused tens of millions of other deaths.–The World Book Encyclopedia, 1966, Vol. 20, p. 377.
World War! Pestilences! Food shortages!
Of course, there were other things fortold.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; AND THEN THE END WILL COME.”This is happening today.
So, while some on here have falsely claimed that we believe that Christ has “come” in 1914, we believe that the Bible points to that year as when he would throw Satan out of heaven, which was just the beginning of his conquest.
The New York World of August 30, 1914, explains: “The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible Students’ [as Jehovah’s Witnesses were then known] . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914.”–The World, a New York newspaper, August 30, 1914.
Of course, at the time, our expectations were off. For how we came to this date:As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [“the times of the Gentiles,” King James Version] are fulfilled.” Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.
How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.”—Daniel 4:10-16.
In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of “seven times.” How long a period is that?
Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.
The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.
Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.
[Footnote]
From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years. For informa
tion on Jerusalem’s fall in 607 B.C.E., see the article “Chronology” in Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
–bh 215-218Or, another publication:
Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that God’s Kingdom was established in 1914?Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1) Bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy. Here we will consider the chronology. For fulfillment of prophecy, see the main heading “Last Days.”
Read Daniel 4:1-17. Verses 20-37 show that this prophecy had a fulfillment upon Nebuchadnezzar. But it also has a larger fulfillment. How do we know that? Verses 3 and 17 show that the dream that God gave to King Nebuchadnezzar deals with the Kingdom of God and God’s promise to give it “to the one whom he wants to . . . even the lowliest one of mankind.” The entire Bible shows that Jehovah’s purpose is for his own Son, Jesus Christ, to rule as His representative over mankind. (Ps. 2:1-8; Dan. 7:13, 14; 1 Cor. 15:23-25; Rev. 11:15; 12:10) The Bible’s description of Jesus shows that he was indeed “the lowliest one of mankind.” (Phil. 2:7, 8; Matt. 11:28-30) The prophetic dream, then, points to the time when Jehovah would give rulership over mankind to his own Son.
What was to happen in the meantime? Rulership over mankind, as represented by the tree and its rootstock, would have “the heart of a beast.” (Dan. 4:16) The history of mankind would be dominated by governments that displayed the characteristics of wild beasts. In modern times, the bear is commonly used to represent Russia; the eagle, the United States; the lion, Britain; the dragon, China. The Bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system of human rulership under the influence of Satan. (Dan. 7:2-8, 17, 23; 8:20-22; Rev. 13:1, 2) As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be “trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) “Jerusalem” represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on “the throne of the kingship of Jehovah.” (1 Chron. 28:4, 5; Matt. 5:34, 35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5, 6.
For how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says “seven times” (“seven years,” AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many “days,” then, are involved? Revelation 11:2, 3 clearly states that 42 months (3 1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the “day for a year” rule would result in 2,520 years.
When did the counting of the “seven times” begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2; for further details, see the book “Let Your Kingdom Come,” pages 186-189.)
How, then, is the time calculated down to 1914? Counting 2,520 years from early October of 607 B.C.E. brings us to early October of 1914 C.E., as shown on the chart.
CALCULATING THE “SEVEN TIMES”
“Seven times” = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years
A Biblical “time,” or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14)
In the fulfillment of the “seven times” each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)
Early October, 607 B.C.E., to December 31, 607 B.C.E.= 1/4 year
January 1, 606 B.C.E., to December 31, 1 B.C.E. = 606 years
January 1, 1 C.E., to December 31, 1913 = 1,913 years
January 1, 1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years
What happened at that time? Jehovah entrusted rulership over mankind to his own Son, Jesus Christ, glorified in the heavens.—Dan. 7:13, 14.–Reasoning.
[/B]Then why is there still so much wickedness on earth?
After Christ was enthroned, Satan and his demons were hurled out of heaven and down to the earth. (Rev. 12:12) Christ as King did not immediately proceed to destroy all who refused to acknowledge Jehovah’s sovereignty and himself as the Messiah. Instead, as he had foretold, a global preaching work was to be done. (Matt. 24:14) In the meantime, the very difficult conditions foretold for “the last days” would prevail. Those events have been clearly in evidence since 1914. Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the “great tribulation” in which the present wicked world will end.—Matt. 24:21, 22, 34.
I hope this helps.
In answer to his disciples’ question about this “sign,” he said:
“Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:3, 7, 8)
In striking fulfillment, the first of the world wars started in 1914, bringing destruction seven times greater than all the 900 wars of the preceding 2,500 years! Pangs of distress have continued ever since.
The “pangs of distress” have heightened through World War II, which was four times as destructive as World War I, and on into the nuclear age, and now terrorism, fulfilling Jesus’ further prophecy: “On the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out . . . , while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.” (Luke 21:25, 26)
The increase in crime and wickedness, in disobedience and delinquency among children, as well as the growth of godlessness and immorality—these alarming developments were also foretold as marking “the last days” of this evil system.—2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 24:12.
When Christ received Kingdom power, his first act was to wage war on Satan in the invisible heavens. As a result, Satan, “who is misleading the entire inhabited earth,” was hurled with his angels down to the vicinity of the earth. Knowing that his destruction draws near, he stirs up great trouble on earth. It is “woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”—Revelation 12:7-9, 12.
Anyway, at some point in history, the nation rising against nation, and the earthquakes and pestilences, and pangs of distress would occur, as a composite sign. If it wasn't the things that began in 1914, if greater more destructive wars on a larger scale are to come, as the real sign, then these wars would have to be the sort that pretty much kill everyone.
Wikipedia says the spanish flue, “a category 5 influenza pandemic between 1918 and 1920 caused by an unusually severe and deadly Influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. By far the most destructive pandemic in history…”
If this isn't the sort of pestilence that was fortold, where in many places 1/4 died, what are we to expect when the real sign comes? 3/4?
The “Great War” some say, lead to the spanish flu, which in turn lead to increased food shortages in some places.
Right now, a billion people don't have enough to eat and of those, 450 million are on the edge of starvation.
It's hard to grasp these things when we live so far from them, typing away on our computers, with stocked fridges and clean water. The reality of our lives doesn't represent the whole.
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