Jehovah's witnesses

[NickHassan]

topical

[Unisage]

Quote

David Yes, and in 'defending the truth' it just so happens that in this case I'm apparently defending JW's who in truth, do not tithe. That is the truth. You have problems with truth, don't you? I know it would make life easier for you if we did tithe. Life would be more simple. But we don't.

You should.

Quote

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

CB

There is no tithing..You need a Levite Priest for one.. to collect the tithes..And The last Levite Priest was Jesus Christ..

And # 2 You need to go and pick your perfect Animal for the offering..
Because the Tithe and offering go hand in hand..

Would you like me to show proof from scripture to you?

You have been duped by your Church for tithing..Now please send me $25:00 for this Great information I gave you..And If you hurry in the next day or so I will throw in a bottle of the red sea for you for free..

[NickHassan]

Hi U,
Is not Christ a priest of the order of Melchizedek?

[Unisage]

Is not Christ the High Priest?

[Unisage]

Nick

Is not Jesus a Levite? And also Jesus took the Postion of High Priest.No other priest will succeed Him. He finished the work of the earthly priesthood, and therefore, there is no longer an active Levite priesthood on earth to collect the tithes.Also in 2 Corinth 9:7 tells us that we are not to give under compulsion in other words, we don’t tithe.

Hebrews 6:20

20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:18-28

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

20And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The Bible it is explicitly clear that tithes could only be collected by the Levite priests no other human being can collect the tithes according to Scripture.

Numbers 18:1-7

Numbers 18
1And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.

2And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.

3And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.

4And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.

5And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar: that there be no wrath any more upon the children of Israel.

6And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

7Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest's office for everything of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest's office unto you as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

[Unisage]

It is amazing how people can be deceived into tithing.That is really there own fault for not searching the Scriptures..

God loves a Cheerful giver.. But give it to the Poor/needy.

And Shame on the Pastor and Priest and Teachers for not teaching the truth on this Matter..They are robbing God people for there own personal gain.They wont get a cent out of me.I will give it to the Poor & Destitute and teach the truth of God words to them.For free!

[Unisage]

Nick

Also read Ezekiel 44:1-31 Jesus will administer the worship of God. You will see the Levites…..

[942767]

Hi Unisage:

I have a personal testimony to relate to you relative to tithing.  The pastor of the church that I was attending taught that every one of the members should tithe.  Well, I thought that she was wrong in teaching this because of the following scripture: 2 Co. 8:11
Now * * therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.  
8:12
For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.  
8:13
For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:  
8:14
But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:  

(I thought that it would be very difficult for a person to tithe if they barely had enough to take care of their bills, and I thought that in a case like this if a person gave their best offering that would be more than a tithe relating this to the widow woman who gave the two mites (Luke 21:2), and I told some one, not a member of the church, that I thought that she was wrong in teaching that every one should tithe.

God spoke to me through a prophet and told me that I was judging her to be wrong, and that she was correct, but at the same time taught me that if I had a different understanding than some one that I should approach them not judging them to be wrong, but with the possibility that I could be the one in error, and with the motive of coming into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth.

But Jesus is a High Priest “after the order of Melchisedek” to whom Abraham paid tithes of the spoils.
Gen.14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Hebrews 7      
7:1
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;  
7:2
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;  

7:4
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.  
7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:  
7:6
But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.  
7:7
And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.  
7:8
And here * * men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.  
7:9
And as I may so say *, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.  
7:10
For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.  

Tithing is a guideline and an act of obedience by which God can bless the giver.  This is what he says to the Nation of Israel: Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and PROVE ME NOW HEREWITH, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. (THE BLESSING ARE MORE THAN A RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENT IN FINANCIAL TERMS)

Of course, if you don't have it to give you can't give it, and if you do have it to give and don't want to give it, God would rather you not give it (As Annias and Saphira found). 2Co 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly *, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Tithing is a guideline for giving and not a commandment.  I know some one who does a reverse tithe.  He pays 90% of his income to the church and lives on 10%.

Of course, those in the ministry have needs and the Word of God states:1 Co 9:7
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?  
9:8
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?  
9:9
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn *. Doth God take care for oxen?  

And also, the church as a community of believers can take care the poor and the needy rather than each individual believer doing this on his own.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

See the thread on tithing

[olive]

Hey David,

I do not know if you keep up w/ this thread, but I have a question for you.

This is me: your post seem to be long at times, If you could breifly, briefly being the key word answer me this question. I will even settle for a yes or no.

The catholic religion goes to the advent to receive answers for what others that ask, they have many 'sources' of information, do you consider the watchtower to be of the same substance as the advent ?

Thanks much

blessings and love

[david]

Hi Olive.

Not sure.

What is “the advent.”

The “watchtower” is a magazine we use. If you look on the cover, you'll notice the full title is “The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom.”

Without going into detail, that is it's purpose.

MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

Ok, let the random non-related attacks come, from others….

[Anonymous]

David. Could you please tell us why your church founder and spiritual leader Charles Taze Russell is buried under a masonic pyramid. This is wierd and occult. See  
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m

[kenrch]

Quote (nanay @ May 22 2007,01:33)

David. Could you please tell us why your church founder and spiritual leader Charles Taze Russell is buried under a masonic pyramid. This is wierd and occult. See   http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m

Well I don't know if that's true or not BUT this much I do know their are sincere “christians” in the JWS. To me the Masons and JWS are no different than a Baptist or any other deceived denomination. All keep the Harlot's doctrine.

IHN&L,

Ken

[Not3in1]

David,
Here is a random thought (you may remember that I have two JW friends who come to visit me every now and then), they told me that JESUS IS HERE already! That he came in 1914. Is this true? Thanks.

[Cult Buster]

Not just 1914, but when He did not show up, they set several subsequent dates for the second coming which did not eventuate. So now the JWs say that He came in secret. The Bible states otherwise

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

[Proclaimer]

It is true what you say CultB.

It is also true that the Trinity doctrine is just as false as the 1914 prophecy.

You would be wise to get your own house in order before trying to fix someone else's.

Just giving some advice.

[Proclaimer]

If Jesus came in 1914, are we now awaiting the third coming?

[olive]

Thank you David, for your breif response, it was greatly appreciated, no offense, but at times it becomes quite tiresome w/ the long speeches, extended tassels, the best seats in the house writings. My favorite is requoting what another said, then another, then another, then adding their post. Oy Vey.

The advent, is a reference guide to what the church believes in, thier creed/statement on scriptures. It gives them the 'substance' on how the church interupts scripture. Is this somewhat similar to the watchtower ?

Most denominations have some sort of 'self' help references they go to.

I am sorry the attacks come to you, this is not an attack. Just a question.

blessings and love

[david]

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David. Could you please tell us why your church founder and spiritual leader Charles Taze Russell is buried under a masonic pyramid. This is wierd and occult. See

Do some research:

1. Is he buried “under” a masonic pyramid or is the pyramid a monument that was put there decades later by another group that idolizes him?

Actually, I'm certain you won't do the research. I'll just post what I believe is already on this thread or one of the other 2 JW threads on here:

Not to mention his mystic ties as a Free Mason.
I LOVE THIS ONE! Lying is wrong. And HE accuses us of lying? You know, I’ve come across this a few times. I actually did some research on it, not because I was researching Russel, but because I was researching free masons.
It’s not at all true in the slightest that he was free mason. What is absolutely true is that there are many who wanted to invalidate everything he said. It has been published that because “Bible students” have rented Masonic lodges, that they are somehow involved. But it is also true that they meet in schools. Are they teachers? They meet in YMCA’s. Are they athletic directors?
Anyway, here is where you can find some of what he actually said, if you care:
–June 1914 Convention discourse “The Temple of God” (“Convention Report Sermons pg 362)
–1908 Convention Question Meeting (“The Question Book” pg 318)
–1904 The New Creation pp 580-581
–1895; Zion’s Watch Tower June, 1985 pg 143

Then there’s the supposed masonic symbols. A while ago, I took some interest in why these where in very old pictures. The crown and cross.
CROWN AND THE CROSS;
It was an adaptation of a long used Catholic symbol. “If we suffer with him, we shall also reign with him.” And “he who would be my follower must take us his cross daily and follow me.”
As for the KNIGHTS HELMET, this isn’t a masonic or knight’s templar symbol. Behind the helmet are a sword, shephards staff, and an axe. It was derived from concepts found in scripture. We are told to put on the “helmet of salvation, sword of the spirit.” “his rod and staff comfort me,” “all who walk rightfully in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”

Anyway, I should have just begun by saying that free masons (of the Grand Lodge of BC and the Yukon), who should know, say that “Russel was not a free mason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic. And the cross and crown symbol does not appear on his gravestone in the Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania — it appears on a memorial erected some years later.
In an address delivered in a San Francisco masonic hall in 1913, Russell made positive use of masonic imagery by saying, “Now, I am a free and accepted mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our masonic brethren.” He further develops this idea: “true Bible believers may or may not belong to the masonic fraternity, but they are all masons of the highest order, since they are being fashioned, chiselled and polished by the Almighty to be used as living stones in the Temple Built Without Hands. They are free from sin, and therefore accepted by the God of Heaven as fit stones for the heavenly Temple.” Later in this address, Russell stated quite clearly that “I have never been a mason.” Those who claim Russell was a freemason quote this address out of context without noting the rhetorical imagery.”
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry03.html

As well, if you go to any Mason site and ask the masons if he was a mason, they will give the clear answer: No. They will even point to the fact that the Watchtower speaks negatively about masonry.

With very very little research, you will find that charles taze russel was a mason. With more research, you’ll find that you were lied to the first time, by those who wish to strike at anything they can to discredit Jehovah’s Witnesses. Saying that Russel was a mason is slander with a very obvious intent.

The following book is about Allegheny’s Masonic Fund Society which oversaw the construction and maintenance of the city’s Masonic Temple:
“The history of the Masonic Fund Society for the county of Allegheny from the year 1847 to 1923; with biographical sketches of deceased members of the Board of Trustees …” / by Hiram Schock, Pittsburgh, PA : 1923
You will find it on the net at this link: http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin….=header
Besides the construction of the various temples over the years (1911, 1845, 1889, 1914), it describes the daily managment of these temples and supplies the names of the various Masons in charge at the time.
It can be stated that none of the Russels were worthy of being mentioned, not even a word about them.
On page 126 of the abovementioned document, for example, the author states:
“It is interesting to note the continued popularity of the Auditorium, or ‘Concert Hall’ of the Masonic Hall during that era as a gathering place for the meetings of a variety of organizations.”
On this same page, it is explained that the masons would rent the room daily to the local YMCA.
In the course of the book, other groups are shown to have used the Masonic Temple as a place of meeting:
Page 125: The Second Baptist Church rented the room for its religious meetings
Page 133: concerts and charity meetings of the ladies of Trinity Episcopal Church
Page 146: Here we learn that before the construction of the Opera house, the Masonic
Temple was the most popular cultural venue for theater performances and public
discourses.

Not to mention that he is buried under a huge pyramid headstone in PA.
See above. He’s not buried under it and it was erected some years after his death, as quoted above
“I can prove easily that the masonic temple near the Russell's gravestone was build 80 years after the death of Russell, that the plot was not donate to the masonry by russell or the watchtower but was buyed by the masonry in 1995.”
<a href="http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/10189/1.ashx” target=”_blank”>http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/10189/1.ashx%5B/U%5D

The next line in that forum is interesting. Let me put it in italics:

“I consider the “truth” about this and every other JW-related issue to be EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, because OBVIOUS HORSE[….] like “Russell was a Mason” only serves the WTS's objective of painting XJWs as NUTS and LIARS.”
That quote was submitted by someone called “madapostate.”

You will find this set of pictures on hundreds of websites. There is a picture of his headstone here (under which he is buried), along with his instructions for burial: http://www.freeminds.org/history/cemetary.htm
It is true that Russel was one of the most prominent “pyramidologists”, with other prominent “pyramidologists” (Morton Edgar) also being Watchtower Society Officers.
This was a part of his beliefs along with other false traditions (like celebrating pagan holidays, etc, which were done away with)
Just for the record. Pyramids are not connected to masonry. This is a urban legend. The only masonry who could be interested in pyramidology was the Memphis-Misraïm Rite, but there was none in Allegheny, where Russel was. This movement beginned in France, and have in France at this best time only an hundred of mason. It crossed the Atlantic and has perhaps more
mason in USA, but there was no Memphis Misraïm lodge at the time of Russell.

[david]

There was a documentary on JW's on PBS today.

You used to be able to find trailers on www. knocking.org
but now, I think they've been removed.
If you search youtube under Knocking JW, you will find three trailers on this.

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