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Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2007,23:55) I DON'T NEED TO PROMOTE IT. You feel you need to promote it. BUT HERE'S THE CRAZY THING. The body of Christ is not divided. THerefore, it does not need promoting. You are trying to tie together all forms of false Christianity, and you call this unity.
THERE IS NOOOO NEEEDDD TO PROMOTE UNITY WITH THE BODY OF CHRIST. If you feel you are divided with the body of Christ, perhaps you are not in it.
The body of Christ is not divided. Can I say that again? The body of Christ is not divided. Well, it is divided from false Christians. Jesus did come to divede people, as the scripture says. He didn't come to unite mankind, or form some universal (Catholic) religion. I'll say this once more: The Body Of Christ Is Not Divided! Not with itself.
I do not need to do what you consider to be 'promoting' unity among the body of Christ. The Body of Christ (the Anointed;Bride of Christ; Brothers of Christ, Chosen Ones; Holy Ones; Elect; Holy Nation; Israel of God; Kingdom Class; Little Flock; New Creation; New Nation; Royal House; Royal Priesthood; Sanctuary Class; Spirit Begotten; Spiritual Israel; Spiritual Sons) or any other name you want to give them–THEY ARE THE MOST UNITED GROUP ON THE PLANET !
david you haven't understood anything I have said to you regarding this. I will try again from a different angle.The body of Christ is Christ's body on earth. In other words it is the organism that he works through on earth. It is made up people that belong to him only.
On the otherhand denominations are man-made organisations that not only section or divide the body of Christ, but they also include people who actually do not belong to the body of Christ at all. So denominations can unite believers and non-believers under the same yoke.But our focus should be Christ because he is our head, and if you or anybody makes someone else your head or you relate only to a denomination, then you cannot be fully used by God because you do not even know how he uses us and how we are suppose to be one. In otherwords you ignore the rest of the body and can only see a man-made organisation that at best contains a little of the body. We also know a body should be in unity to the head and yet there are all these denominations and cults that try to steal our inherited position within the body and substitute it for a different position in a different body.
That is why I stress that truth and scripture are very important because they are imparted and revealed knowledge from God and without it, it could even lead to our destruction. Of course there are greater things than truth and knowledge such as love. But that is a different subject and truth is still extremely important because all that is NOT built on truth is destined to perish.
Now regarding your titles for the Body, I noticed that you neglected the JWs in that list.
Are we finally getting somewhere now?
Are you now able to understand some from the Body of Christ are represented here and that you are not the only one because you are a JW?
If you say that you have always recognised this, then please demonstrate this by encouraging those people to be of one mind.
Selling a denomination is not only inadequate, but it is actually detrimental to the development of the body if you actually successfully lead a true believer into the JW organisation.
At the end of the day if you are a true believer and part of his body, then your main priority is to hear Jesus your head. Your next priority is to be at one with others in the body, especially those whom you are in contact with.
To david.
Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2007,23:55) I am not trying to “preach” about JW's at all, but rather, this began with me finally getting annoyed at your connecting “tithing” with “JW's” and what you call other “denominations and cults” for the fifth time in the past year.
I'm trying to set matters straight. I only wanted you to acknowledge or understand that we don't tithe, so you could stop implying it. For some reason, instead of doing this, you made it your quest to try to somehow prove yourself right. We don't tithe. We follow the example set out by the early Christians.
I am implying that JWs are a cult/denomination/man-made organisation.I then correctly point out that such organisations need money to run and that often tithing is encouraged. Just because the JWs say they do not tithe, doesn't mean that JWs are not giving resources to the JW organisation so that this organisation can continue to work and divide against the body of Christ.
The more you try to say that I am saying or implying that JWs tithe, the more I will speak the truth that money given to organisations that claim to be the body, the way, the correct church, the closest to the true Church, or any other such proud claim that raises itself against Christ, are wasting their money and time and will be partially responsible for the works of these organisations.
david I think the time has come for the Church to judge denominations instead of being enslaved by them.
Revelation 18:3-6
3 For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
6 Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Mix her a double portion from her own cup.Remember that the Mother of Harlots cannot produce anything but harlots. You can claim that your denomination is the right one, but have you considered that a daughter can be rebellious toward her mother but is still a daughter.
Quote I know you understand that because one of the things I give the JW's credit for, as far as I understand their teaching on the matter, is their proper teaching on being seperate from the world. Being citizens of the Kingdom of God. Not being yoked with a hybrid two Kingdom form of Christianity. Hi Morning Star
Yes, we do believe this, to not be yoked with unbelievers or to embrace “a form of godly devotion” where people prove false to it. In fact, we are told to turn away from such ones. ( 2 Timothy)YOu state:
Quote Here I disagree with you David. The Body of Christ is suppost to be in unity just as the Father and Son are.
“The Body of Christ is supposed to be in unity” is pretty much the theme of my post. Actually, I guess the theme would be: The body of Christ IS united.
So I'm not sure why you say you disagree with me and then say that.Quote One thing I think is a bit off on these forums is that many place such a huge emphasis on having the proper “knowledge” of the truth. Quote God is not going to say “Depart from me ye confused and misunderstanding heretic. Ye did not properly understand the teachings on tithing, nor exactly how the Father and Son or one, nor on end times prophecy.”
Of course God is merciful. But if one's heart is right, God will help them to understand the truth.
And if it is not:
2 THESSALONIANS 2:11-12
“So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Many people today are “believing the lie.” It's not that they aren't zealous or don't think they are doing the right thing. Many in that day will say “lord, lord,” as the scripture goes. Yet, despite what they think, they are not doing the will of the Father.Quote Our hearts, gentlemen, had better be like children's.
True.T8,
Quote If you came here in the name of Jesus and not the name of the Jehovah Witnesses, then you would be serving the body by encouraging, teaching, learning, exhorting, and discovering. Instead you spend your time defending a man-made organisation called the JWs. And why? Because certain people continue to misrepresent and slander. I feel the truth is important and should not be sidestepped in some's effort to turn people away.
Quote We don't have to defend any organisation. We defend the truth and use scripture as the template.
Yes, and in 'defending the truth' it just so happens that in this case I'm apparently defending JW's who in truth, do not tithe. That is the truth. You have problems with truth, don't you? I know it would make life easier for you if we did tithe. Life would be more simple. But we don't.T8, you state these two things:
Quote denominations are man-made organisations that not only section or divide the body of Christ,
andQuote they [denominations] also include people who actually do not belong to the body of Christ at all
therefore, some of the people in denominations, as you've stated before ARE in the body of Christ.Question: Why would members of the body of Christ want to be a part of a man made organization that, in your words “divide the body of Christ.”?
Seems an odd things for a member of the body of Christ, to belong to or support something that divides the body of Christ.
Quote We also know a body should be in unity
You keep saying 'should'. It is in unity T8. The body of Christ is not divided.Quote That is why I stress that truth and scripture are very important because they are imparted and revealed knowledge from God and without it, it could even lead to our destruction. Of course there are greater things than truth and knowledge such as love. But that is a different subject and truth is still extremely important because all that is NOT built on truth is destined to perish.
Speaking of truth, which I can only assume you hold as important based on what you say above, “Do JW's tithe?” What is the truth, in this regard? Do you care for the truth? Really? How important is the truth to you? What if it gets in the way of what you want to believe? Do JW's tithe?Quote Now regarding your titles for the Body, I noticed that you neglected the JWs in that list.
Yes, obviously.Quote Are you now able to understand some from the Body of Christ are represented here and that you are not the only one because you are a JW?
I think you misunderstand.Quote I am implying that JWs are a cult
A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society. They live and work in the midst of other people.
Jesus Christ was accused of being a drunkard, a glutton, a Sabbath breaker, a false witness, a blasphemer of God, and a messenger of Satan. He was also accused of being subversive.—Matthew 9:34; 11:19; 12:24; 26:65; John 8:13; 9:16; 19:12.Quote I then correctly point out that such organisations need money to run and that often tithing is encouraged.
Yes, but what does this have to do with Jehovah's Witnesses? We do not encourage tithing. Remember? I guess not.david
Hi david,
You say
“The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. “Not so.
They loosely base many doctrines on scripture teaching
Jesus is Michael for example
and only some men go to heaven
and all men are forgiven at death.Thus they declare they are not of Christ or his God who demands we abide in the Word.
Quote (david @ Mar. 02 2007,03:51) And why? Because certain people continue to misrepresent and slander. I feel the truth is important and should not be sidestepped in some's effort to turn people away.
david.Please give me a direct quote where I have slandered the JWs.
By slander, I mean that which is not true.
Quote (david @ Mar. 02 2007,04:16) therefore, some of the people in denominations, as you've stated before ARE in the body of Christ. Question: Why would members of the body of Christ want to be a part of a man made organization that, in your words “divide the body of Christ.”?
Seems an odd things for a member of the body of Christ, to belong to or support something that divides the body of Christ.
It is odd isn't it david.But it is written “Come out of her MY people”, so it is obvious that God's people to some degree can exist inside her.
So you should understand that God's people can go into captivity (it happened to Israel) and this is by no means a proof that they are not God's people, but that they are not doing the will of God and have been led astray.
In fact you had better hope that God's people can be trapped inside, otherwise your statement could be interpreted as JWs are odd because they are a denomination that is separate to the body and therefore another way to divide the body.
Quote (david @ Mar. 02 2007,03:51) Yes, and in 'defending the truth' it just so happens that in this case I'm apparently defending JW's who in truth, do not tithe. That is the truth. You have problems with truth, don't you? I know it would make life easier for you if we did tithe. Life would be more simple. But we don't.
david, please give me a direct quote (a post) where I have said that JWs tithe. Please quote the whole post, so that I can read it in context.If it says that JWs tithe I will apologise. If it mentions tithing in the general context of denominations, then I don't need to apologise because that statement is true with many denominations and cults.
Thx
Quote Please give me a direct quote where I have slandered the JWs.
As I have said before, and directly told you, you have never said: “JW's tithe.” But while denouncing JW's on several occasions, you have mentioned tithing, as though we tithe. Then, you refuse to acknowledge that we don't tithe.
And just a couple days ago, when perhaps you realized that we don't tithe, you moved on and insinuted that all we do is convert little old ladies. This is ridiculous.Quote By slander, I mean that which is not true.
Yes, I know what slander is. It's not just words that aren't true. It's words that aren't true that are meant to damage someone's reputation or make others think badly of someone.Quote david, please give me a direct quote (a post) where I have said that JWs tithe. Please quote the whole post, so that I can read it in context.
I'm still waiting for you to admit that we don't tithe. If you could just admit this truth, show me that you understand….Quote If it says that JWs tithe I will apologise.
You don't need to apologize for saying something you didn't say. It's what you keep insinuating, implying, hinting at. Here's how the conversation usually goes, as I remember over the past year or so:T8:
'JW's or Mormons…cult/denomination… badness, money, tithing. I hate tithing.'You start out speaking of JW's and then end on rightly denouncing tithing. The impression that many could get is that you are saying JW's tithe and this is false. I know you understand what I'm saying.
Quote If it mentions tithing in the general context of denominations, then I don't need to apologise because that statement is true with many denominations and cults.
Fair enough. Let me try this another way:“T8 is a person. Many people are stupid.”
Both statements are true. Right? And they're not really connected. But put them together and it seems like I'm insinuating something, doesn't it?
Of course, I don't believe this. I haven't said anything bad about you above. Have I? And if you think I have, please quote me. Now do you understand?
David, i'm curious, is this how you became a Watchtower?
Quote (david @ Mar. 03 2007,02:21) As I have said before, and directly told you, you have never said: “JW's tithe.” But while denouncing JW's on several occasions, you have mentioned tithing, as though we tithe. Then, you refuse to acknowledge that we don't tithe.
And just a couple days ago, when perhaps you realized that we don't tithe, you moved on and insinuted that all we do is convert little old ladies. This is ridiculous.
david, if I didn't announce it then I don't need to denounce it.But for your sake I will say “JWs don't tithe” except for the ones that give 10% to the JWs organisation.
There would have to be some right?
Quote (david @ Mar. 03 2007,02:21) I'm still waiting for you to admit that we don't tithe. If you could just admit this truth, show me that you understand….
david why do I have to admit it.You said yourself that I didn't say it, but may have inferred it. Inference is up to your own interpretation.
Perhaps you should admit that you got the wrong end of the stick regarding my general dislike for cults, denomination, and other man made organisations that have their own governments and are financed by their followers.
I never said that all of them have a tithing system. I said that they do have a system for extracting funds from their followers. But some may extract more of less than 10%, others leave it up to each member what to give. But the point is that the followers are the ones who make the cult exist in the first place.
No money no cult. No money, no building, no church. This is true for many of these organisations.
Even the Trinity Broadcasting Network plugs people for money and promotes these things called “love gifts” which are tacky religious things made by human hands.
Hi Is 1.18,
The universal factors in the behaviours of natural man are guilt and insecurity.
Man cannot resolve guilt by himself and all men sin, and know it.
Man is born alone and soon enough realises his personal lonliness and vulnerability.
So any group that offers any deeper apparently spiritual information as well as supportive social interaction helps the pain.
If they claim infallibility and that they are the only way, and told opposition to them proves they are right then close the door.Quote (david @ Mar. 03 2007,02:21) You don't need to apologize for saying something you didn't say. It's what you keep insinuating, implying, hinting at. Here's how the conversation usually goes, as I remember over the past year or so:
david I think you are being paranoid.God is my witness, I never said or inferred that JWs have a tithing system. If it appears I did, my intention was not to infer this, but the explanation could be that my wording wasn't clear or your understanding of my post(s) was skewed.
Hi,
I guess also the JWs use the obvious weakness of the trinity theory and other falsehoods taught in the traditional churches to break down trust in other denominations so they can build faith on their doctrines.Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
That is my thinking too.
By promoting the sins of others and then saying I don't do this, can make a person or organisation look good.
But as I have mentioned before sheep look very clean and pure until it snows. Then their fleeces look like filthy rags.
Of course the other thing is that the devil has a cult/denomination for all kinds of beliefs. He is just covering bases because people will figure certain things out. So when they do, he has a cult/denomination/religion waiting to cater for their needs.
That is why all these groups who say we are the way are ridiculous. In truth the group that Christs uses is the Body of Christ which is his Church.
Quote I guess also the JWs use the obvious weakness of the trinity theory and other falsehoods taught in the traditional churches to break down trust in other denominations so they can build faith on their doctrines.
It's my experience that people see in others what is true of themselves. A thief sees others as theives. A person that loves to lie thinks everyone is lying all the time.TITUS 1:15
“All things are clean to clean [persons]. But to [persons] defiled and faithless nothing is clean, but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.”I think perhaps Nick sees in others what is true of himself.
Hi david,
To become clean you must be reborn of water and the Holy Spirit.
Then you have to wash your feet from the daily dust of the world.
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