Jehovah's witnesses

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
Love God?
Hate false doctrine
Love truth?
Hate false doctrine
Love people?
Hate false doctrine

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2007,04:27)

Hi charity, Love God? Hate false doctrine Love truth? Hate false doctrine Love people? Hate false doctrine

I know what you are saying Nick

Also

Should Hate be taught as a doctrine?

Who is convinced he has all the righteous ways that he may apply hate to something new to his ears?

We shall know them by their love

I don't think the scripture promotes Hate actions; but if we should feel it within it may be considered a righteous Hate
God is long suffering and dose not smite us easily, as his Son also; as should we follow also

Jam 1:12 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
Why not hate the enemies that chain your friends,
the unseen principalities and powers that produce death for men?

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2007,06:17)

Hi charity, Why not hate the enemies that chain your friends, the unseen principalities and powers that produce death for men?

Its about the heart Nick from the motive we step forth on

A feeling of Hate is what we all experience at times

But is right for use to be taught to defend a doctrine?
This has inspired many people to rise up promotion of its okay to hate we don’t except the doctrine
And they justify each other in righteousness

Is this just about justification to proceed hating any that doesn’t agree?

Have we not enough fruits of the spirit that our friends may be persuaded to listen
We should quickly get to the goal ourselves even for our friend sake then

This is worth while for us to find firm Ground to stand

Blessings

charity

[NickHassan]

Ecclesiastes 3:8
A time to love and a time to hate;A time for war and a time for peace
Amos 5:15
Hate evil, love good,And establish justice in the gate!Perhaps the LORD God of hosts May be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.

God hates evil.
Amos 5:21
“I hate, I reject your festivals,Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies.

Isaiah 1:14
“I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts,They have become a burden to Me;I am weary of bearing them.
Isaiah 61:8
For I, the LORD, love justice,I hate robbery in the burnt offering;And I will faithfully give them their recompenseAnd make an everlasting covenant with them.
Jeremiah 12:8
“My inheritance has become to MeLike a lion in the forest;She has roared against Me;Therefore I have come to hate her.
Jeremiah 44:4
'Yet I sent you all My servants the prophets, again and again, saying, “Oh, do not do this abominable thing which I hate.”
Ezekiel 35:6
therefore as I live,” declares the Lord GOD, “I will give you over to bloodshed, and bloodshed will pursue you; since you have not hated bloodshed, therefore bloodshed will pursue you.
Hosea 9:15
All their evil is at Gilgal;Indeed, I came to hate them there!Because of the wickedness of their deedsI will drive them out of My house!I will love them no more;All their princes are rebels.
Zechariah 8:17
'Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another, and do not love perjury; for all these are what I hate,' declares the LORD.”
Malachi 2:16
“For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”

Love is for God and for man.

[charity]

Lay it to heart so we do not allow Hate to deal treacherously with a soul neither hand our loved ones over in Consent
For we may not return with compassion after a soul perish
as God Who is mighty and shall deliver any soul

Least we think of ourselves to highly we can cause our own grief in foolishness of pride even seen from the beginning of time

Jer 12:1 ¶ Righteous [art] thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of [thy] judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? [wherefore] are all they happy that deal very treacherously?

Jer 12:2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou [art] near in their mouth, and far from their reins.
Jer 12:3 But thou, O LORD, knowest me: thou hast seen me, and tried mine heart toward thee: pull them out like sheep for the slaughter, and prepare them for the day of slaughter.
Jer 12:4 How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end.
Jer 12:5 ¶ If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
Jer 12:6 For even thy brethren, and the house of thy father, even they have dealt treacherously with thee; yea, they have called a multitude after thee: believe them not, though they speak fair words unto thee.
Jer 12:7 ¶ I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies.
Jer 12:8 Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
Jer 12:9 Mine heritage [is] unto me [as] a speckled bird, the birds round about [are] against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour.
Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer 12:11 They have made it desolate, [and being] desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth [it] to heart.
Jer 12:12 The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the [one] end of the land even to the [other] end of the land: no flesh shall have peace.
Jer 12:13 They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, [but] shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
Jer 12:14 ¶ Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.

compassion on them,
Jer 12:15 And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land.

[charity]

I consider the The almighty God has put us here with a free will
And he shall see how we use our power over other souls
For good towards the creation or to do wickedly and deceitfully
But for myself
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

So I look towards expecting suffering rather than inflicting

Rom 8:18 ¶ For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Understanding that a kingdom shall be built out of a desire that God has put deep within each soul of any dononination tribe or strangers to inheritance
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

charity

[charity]

I understand also that there are brute beasts among us chained in darkness already

Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

A snare even to presume a mere deceived soul as chained and ordained for darkness?

Have I come face to face with a brut beasts?… yes
I figure all must be exposed at sometime in life to understand and suffer the death of the will
And then feelings of righteous hate may arise because of injustice?

Is it then possible to project to much grace and Love?

This would be my question

charity

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
It is deception to be more tolerant than the One who gave us truth. It is to hold that truth in less regard than He does. Servants help men plough as well as sow as light does not sit with darkness. Not for us to prescribe mercy as that belongs to Him but speak truth in a spirit of love, and love hates evil.

[david]

T8, while you seem to be on this forum at present, I was wondering if you believ that JW's tithe.
Because we don't. In any way. In the least.

Quitargueingoverstupidstuff (Matthew) mentioned that while he was a Witness, he never contributed at all, in a monetary way. That is how it is. There is NO FORCED GIVING in any way, to any degree, at all.

I mention this because several times while explaining the errors of JW's you have mentioned tithing. You haven't directly said: JW's tithe. But you have linked the two several times. Can you acknowledge that I'm telling you this, by responding?

[david]

T8, While on the subject, I'd like to put this down:

“How is the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses financed?

By voluntary contributions, as was true with the early Christians. (2 Cor. 8:12; 9:7) No collections are ever taken at their meetings; they do not beg for money from the public. Any donations from interested persons are used to further the worldwide work of Bible education conducted by the Witnesses.

Witnesses are not paid to go from house to house or to offer Bible literature on the streets. Love for God and for neighbor motivates them to talk about God’s loving provisions for mankind.

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, a legal religious corporation that is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses, was incorporated in 1884 in accordance with the Nonprofit Corporation Law of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, U.S.A. Thus, by law it cannot be, and it is not, a profit-making enterprise, nor do individuals make a profit through this Society. The Society’s charter states: “It [the Society] does not contemplate pecuniary gain or profit, incidentally or otherwise, to its members, directors or officers.””–Reasoning, page 202

[Proclaimer]

Quote (david @ Feb. 08 2007,21:20)

The Encyclopedia Canadiana (Under Jehovah’s Witnesses), second paragraph: “The work of Jehovah's Witnesses is the revival and re-establishment of the primitive Christianity practiced by Jesus and his disciples during the first and second centuries of our era. Their services are kept simple. They have no ornate buildings or clerical vestments, no divisions of members into clergy and laity. All are brothers and every one baptized is under obligation to be a minister.” (Toronto : Grolier of Canada, c1957-80. Vol 6)

To david.

So it is true then? That the Body of Christ renamed itself to the Jehovah Witnesses and set up another sub-organisation in New York to prophecy?

Am I reading you correctly?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (david @ Feb. 15 2007,20:43)

T8, while you seem to be on this forum at present, I was wondering if you believ that JW's tithe. Because we don't. In any way. In the least. Quitargueingoverstupidstuff (Matthew) mentioned that while he was a Witness, he never contributed at all, in a monetary way. That is how it is. There is NO FORCED GIVING in any way, to any degree, at all. I mention this because several times while explaining the errors of JW's you have mentioned tithing. You haven't directly said: JW's tithe. But you have linked the two several times. Can you acknowledge that I'm telling you this, by responding?

david.

Most or at least many denominations and cults tithe. Others are still very interested in your money and have other systems of extracting your money to run their operations.

But it is better to give to those in need.

Jesus never taught us to tithe or fund denominations and cults. He taught us to give to those in need.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The JWs boast that they are living and acting as the early christians did.
But the book of acts describes works of power from above.
Yet the JWs works are notable for lacking power.
What gives?

[Proclaimer]

Yes Nick.

Miracles follow the true gospel.

Matthew 13:58
And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Romans 15:18-19
18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— 19by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
19 by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

2 Corinthians 12:12
The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance.

Galatians 3:5
Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Hebrews 3:4
3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will

When I read the above scriptures, neither the JWs or any denomination comes to mind. But certain people who belong to God though out history have testified of such things.

[NickHassan]

Hi t8,
Acts 2:43
And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 4:30
By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Acts 5:12
And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 14:3
Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

These are the ways of God among the early christians.
They show God at work among His people.
Do such things confirm the works of the JWs?

[david]

Quote

Posted: Feb. 21 2007,04:32 QUOTE Quote (david @ Feb. 15 2007,20:43) T8, while you seem to be on this forum at present, I was wondering if you believ that JW's tithe. Because we don't. In any way. In the least. Quitargueingoverstupidstuff (Matthew) mentioned that while he was a Witness, he never contributed at all, in a monetary way. That is how it is. There is NO FORCED GIVING in any way, to any degree, at all. I mention this because several times while explaining the errors of JW's you have mentioned tithing. You haven't directly said: JW's tithe. But you have linked the two several times. Can you acknowledge that I'm telling you this, by responding? david. Most or at least many denominations and cults tithe. Others are still very interested in your money and have other systems of extracting your money to run their operations. But it is better to give to those in need. Jesus never taught us to tithe or fund denominations and cults. He taught us to give to those in need.

So T8, does this mean you will stop implying that JW's tithe?

[david]

I will answer this more properly, but for now, I'm just going to quote something that I have already put down in the “speaking in tongues” thread:

In the first century, the miraculous gifts of the spirit, including the ability to “speak in tongues,” verified that God’s favor had shifted from the 1500 year old Jewish system of worship to the newly established Christian congregation. Is that not what Hebrews 2:2-4 says? Since that objective was accomplished in the first century, is it necessary to prove the same thing again and again in our day?

In the first century, the ability to “speak in tongues” gave impetus to the international work of witnessing that Jesus had commissioned his followers to do. (Acts 1:8; 2:1-11; Matt. 28:19) It was a practical means to spread the good news on an international scale in a short time, contributing to the numerical growth and upbuilding of the infant congregation of Christians. Is that how those who “speak in tongues” use that ability today?

In the first century, when Christians ‘spoke in tongues,’ what they said had meaning to people who knew those languages. (Acts 2:4, 8) Today, is it not true that ‘speaking in tongues’ usually involves an ecstatic outburst of unintelligible sounds?

In the first century, the Bible shows, congregations were to limit the ‘speaking in tongues’ to two or three persons who might do that at any given meeting; they were to do it “each in turn,” and if there was no interpreter present they were to keep silent. (1 Cor. 14:27, 28, RS) Is that what is being done today?

THESE QUESTIONS DESERVE MORE THAN A CURSORY ANSWER. Why? Because we want our worship to have God’s approval and blessing. We must make sure we are not deceiving ourselves or being deceived. We must therefore put what the Bible says ahead of our personal experience, as hard as that is to do.

ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS TODAY IDENTIFIED BY THE ABILITY TO “SPEAK IN TONGUES?”
John 13:35: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”
Love is the primary fruitage of God’s holy spirit; the others are “joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.” (I’ve wondered how self-controlled a person is when they are knocked off their chairs and shout in different tongues. And I wonder who is controlling them? Sometimes, it looks more like they’re almost being attacked to me. Is that God’s spirit in action?)

1 Cor. 13:1, 8: “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal. Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.”

JESUS SAID THAT HOLY SPIRIT WOULD COME UPON HIS FOLLOWERS and that they would be witnesses of him to the MOST DISTANT PART OF THE EARTH. (Read Acts 1:8) He instructed them to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19) He also foretold that ‘this good news of the kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all nations.’ (Matt. 24:14) In harmony with what Jesus said, should we not look for this as an evidence that a group has holy spirit?

DOES NOT Mark 16:17, 18 (KJ) SHOW THAT THE ABILITY TO “SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES” WOULD BE A SIGN IDENTIFYING BELIEVERS?
It should be noted that these verses refer not only to ‘speaking with new tongues’ but also to handling serpents and drinking deadly poison. Are all who “speak in tongues” also encouraging these practices?
It should also be noted that these verses are not accepted by all Bible scholars.
These verses appear in certain Bible manuscripts and versions of the fifth and sixth centuries C.E. But they do not appear in the older Greek manuscripts, the Sinaiticus and Vatican MS. 1209 of the fourth century. Dr. B. F. Westcott, an authority on Bible manuscripts, said that “the verses . . . are no part of the original narrative but an appendage.” (An Introduction to the Study of the Gospels, London, 1881, p. 338) Bible translator Jerome, in the fifth century, said that “almost all the Greek codices [are] without this passage.” (The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel According to S. Mark, London, 1871, J. W. Burgon, p. 53) The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) says: “Its vocabulary and style differ so radically from the rest of the Gospel that it hardly seems possible Mark himself composed it [that is, verses 9-20].” (Vol. IX, p. 240) Tregelles, a noted nineteenth-century Bible scholar, states: “Eusebius, Gregory of Nyssa, Victor of Antioch, Severus of Antioch, Jerome, as well as other writers, especially Greeks, testify that these verses were not written by St. Mark, or not found in the best copies.”
There is no record that early Christians either drank poison or handled serpents to prove they were believers.
But even if these words were part of Mark’s inspired writings (although the bulk of evidence shows they are not) there is nothing in them contrary to the Scriptural evidence that tongues would pass away following the death of the apostles. (See below.)

CAN THE ABILITY TO “SPEAK IN TONGUES” COME FROM A SOURCE OTHER THAN THE TRUE GOD?
Of course. But we all know this, so let’s be brief:
The Bible itself warns that Satan and his demons are able to influence people and control their speech. (Acts 16:17, 18) Jesus acted against a demonic spirit that had moved a man to shout and fall to the floor. (Luke 4:33-35) Paul warned that ‘Satan would transform himself into an angel of light.’ (2 Corinthians 11:14) We are warned that Satan would use “every powerful work and lying signs and portents.”—2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10. (See also 1 John 4:1; Mat 7:21-23)
Did you know that speaking in tongues was a part of certain pagan religions of Greece in Paul’s day? Their rites mixed speaking in tongues with practices such as the cutting of the flesh and frenzied nude dancing. Such historical examples clearly show that speaking in tongues can occur under influences that are most unholy.
A joint statement by the Fountain Trust and the Church of England Evangelical Council admitted: “We are also aware that a similar phenomenon can occur under occult/demonic influence.” (Gospel and Spirit, April 1977, published by the Fountain Trust and the Church of England Evangelical Council, p. 12) The book Religious Movements in Contemporary America (edited by Irving I. Zaretsky and Mark P. Leone, quoting L. P. Gerlach) reports that in Haiti ‘speaking in tongues’ is characteristic of both Pentecostal and Voodoo religions.—(Princeton, N.J.; 1974), p. 693; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.

IF THE SPEAKING IN TONGUES THAT WE SEE TODAY WAS FROM GOD, WOULDN’T IT BE VERY SIMILAR IN APPEARANCE AND PURPOSE TO THE SPEAKING IN TONGUES THAT WAS SEEN IN THE FIRST CENTURY?

N on Oct 1, “It seems very common to deny the power of God among God's people. . . .God has not changed or changed His mind about His blessings given to help man.”
Then why is the speaking in tongues of today so different in purpose and appearance? God does not change. But speaking in tongues has changed. What does this tell us? (Mat 7:22,23)

WHY THE GIFT OF TONGUES?
First of all, the apostle Paul explains at Hebrews 2:2-4 that the miraculous gifts, which would include the gift of tongues, were given to the first-century Christians to verify that God’s favor had shifted from the old Jewish arrangement for worship to the newly established Christian congregation. The shift of divine favor was well established by the latter part of the first century, while some of the apostles of Jesus Christ were yet alive.
That the gift of tongues also served another purpose can be seen from Jesus’ words to his disciples shortly before his ascension to heaven in 33 C.E.
He said:
“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be wi
tnesses of me both in Jerusalem and . . . to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)
Notice that he thus gave indication of just how this monumental witness work would be accomplished—with the assistance of the holy spirit.
When Jesus said the words quoted above in Acts 1:8, the small group of disciples did not include persons who spoke the languages of every part of the earth. But, true to Jesus’ promise, about 10 days later, on the festival day of Pentecost, the holy spirit was poured out on about 120 of his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem. The result? They “started to speak with different tongues” and so could proceed immediately to carry out the assigned work of witnessing.—Acts 2:1-4.
Modern communication technology that enables us to send messages earth wide in many languages did not exist back then. The good news had to be spread primarily by word of mouth, and in this the miraculous gift of speaking in foreign tongues would prove very helpful. Such was the case as first-century Christians preached to Jews and proselytes in Jerusalem at Pentecost 33 C.E. Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Cretans, Arabians, inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, and the district of Asia, as well as sojourners from Rome, heard “the magnificent things of God” in their own language and understood what was said. Three thousand quickly became believers.—Acts 2:5-11, 41

Why The Gibberish?
When those disciples gave a witness in Jerusalem at the festival of Pentecost, Jews and proselytes who had come from faraway places for the festival were heard to say:
“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)
It is obvious that the tongues mentioned here were known languages, not unintelligible speech. And notice that the gift was used in harmony with the purpose for which Jesus said the spirit would be given, namely, to witness to others. It notably served that purpose, for “on that day about three thousand souls were added.”—Acts 2:41.
In the first-century, stress was laid on the need to interpret clearly the message conveyed in tongues so that it could be understood by all and result in the edification of many. (1 Corinthians 14:26-33) Paul admonished: “Unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.”—1 Corinthians 14:9.
While the spirit of God granted early Christians the gift of tongues, it did not cause them to speak unintelligible or untranslatable gibberish. In harmony with Paul’s counsel, the holy spirit provided speech that resulted in the good news being more quickly “preached in all creation that is under heaven.”—Colossians 1:23.
As in the first century, all creation must hear the message of the Kingdom. (Mk 13:10) This is possible because the Bible has now been translated, in whole or in part, into almost 2,000 LANGUAGES. The same spirit that infused early Christians to speak boldly and courageously is now supporting this wondrous preaching work today. By word of mouth and by using modern printing technology to make available Scriptural truth by the printed page this message is going out to over 230 countries and islands of the sea.

Again, Reasons for speaking in tongues:
1. In the infancy of the Christian congregation this gift assisted the limited number of disciples to instruct foreigners about “the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:5-11)
2. The gift of tongues served as a visible evidence of God’s favor upon this new Christian organization. (1 Cor. 14:22)

“WHETHER THERE ARE TONGUES, THEY WILL CEASE”–WHEN?
In Corinthians 13, Paul goes on to show them the lowly position of tongues as compared with more important matters, especially the “surpassing way” of love. Even those blessed with the gift of tongues “become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal” if they do not exercise love, he explained. (1 Cor. 12:31; 13:1) And to emphasize the importance and permanence of love as compared to the miraculous gifts of the spirit, he wrote: “Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Cor. 13:8.
On the basis of Paul’s words here, there should be no question that the miraculous gifts of the spirit were to pass away. But when? It is argued by some that, since Paul said that ‘tongues are a sign to the unbelievers,’ they would not pass away until unbelievers passed away, that is, until there were no longer any unbelievers. (1 Cor. 14:22) But is that the point Paul is making in this thirteenth chapter? No, it is not. In this chapter he does not associate the cessation of tongues with unbelievers, but, rather, he is comparing the temporariness of the gifts of the spirit with the permanence of love; and he links the transitoriness of these gifts, not with unbelievers, but with the infancy of Christianity.
So after declaring, in verse 8, that the miraculous gifts of prophesying, tongues and knowledge are to be done away with, Paul shows that they were a feature of the babyhood of the Christian congregation. These special gifts of God were an identifying feature of Christianity in its infancy, but, as an adult does away with the traits of a babe, so the Bible shows that these special gifts, too, were to pass away. (1 Cor. 13:8-11)
In its infancy such miraculous gifts were needed to identify in a spectacular way that God’s favor had shifted from the Jewish nation and was now upon this new congregation of Christians. But, as Paul explained, when a man reaches adulthood he does away with “the traits of a babe.” So when the Christian congregation grew to adulthood, that is, reached maturity by becoming a recognized, established organization, these miraculous gifts passed away. Yet faith, hope and love remained as the distinguishing mark of true Christianity.—1 Cor. 13:9-13.
Regarding the transitoriness of the miraculous gifts M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia, Volume 10, page 484, says: “It thus appears that the miraculous gifts of the first days bestowed upon the Church for a definite purpose were gradually but quickly withdrawn from men when the apostles and those who had learned Christ from their lips had fallen asleep.”

“THE SPIRIT WAS GIVEN”–How? And what does this tell us?
Acts 8:18 reveals that the gifts of the spirit were received “through the laying on of the hands of the APOSTLES.”
The Bible record reveals that when any miraculous gift of the spirit was transmitted, at least one of the 12 apostles or the apostle Paul was present. Read for yourself the reported cases when the gift of tongues accompanied the outpouring of holy spirit: Acts 2:1-4, 14; 10:44-48; 19:6. You will notice that in every case one or more of the apostles of Jesus Christ were present. The first of three recorded instances of speaking in tongues occurred among 120 of Jesus’ disciples gathered in Jerusalem at Pentecost 33 C.E. (Acts 2:1-4) Three and a half years later, while a group of uncircumcised Italians were listening to Peter preach, they received the spirit and began “speaking with tongues and magnifying God.” (Acts 10:44-48) And 19 years after Pentecost, about 52 C.E., Paul spoke to a group in Ephesus and laid his hands upon 12 disciples. They too “began speaking with tongues and prophesying.”—Acts 19:6.
Evidently, then, in accord with Acts 8:18, with the death of the last apostle, the passing on of the gifts of the spirit would stop—including speaking in tongues. Hence, when those who had received these gifts from the apostles also passed off the earthly scene, the miraculous gift would cease. By then the Christian congregation would have had time to become well established and would have spread to many lands. The gift of tongues had served its purpose. It had
been well established that the Christian congregation had God’s favor and backing. Moreover, Christians had grown in number and had been dispersed to many lands, carrying the “good news” with them. ( Compare Col 1:23) Such a view agrees with the purpose of those gifts as stated at Hebrews 2:2-4.

TODAY WE HAVE THE BIBLE
Some claim that God uses this gift when he wants to give a direct message to the people. But what message from God do we need today that Jesus Christ and the apostles did not supply for us? (2 Tim 3:16,17) The apostle Paul cautioned:: “Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond [“at variance with,” The New English Bible] what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8) Now, if an apostle or an angel should not go beyond the good news recorded in the Bible, is a charismatic personality today authorized to do so?
Now that the Bible is complete and widely available, we have what we need in the Word of God. It allows us to gain an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and his Son that leads to everlasting life.—John 17:3; Revelation 22:18, 19.

NICK MENTIONED THIS SCRIPTURE: 1 CORINTHIANS 14:2
Let’s look at it closely. There, Paul said: “For he that speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God.”
First of all, it should be noted that Paul is not here discussing private prayer but, rather, the use of the gift of tongues at a congregational meeting. (See 1 Corinthians 14:23.) Moreover, Paul’s words are in complete harmony with both the purpose for which the gift of tongues was given and the description of the gift given in the book of Acts. If you read the entire 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians, you will notice that
(1) the tongues referred to were known languages, not unintelligible speech, and
(2) the gift was to be used, not privately, but for the benefit of unbelievers.
Let us read verse 2 in its entirety. It states:
“FOR HE THAT SPEAKS IN A TONGUE SPEAKS, NOT TO MEN, BUT TO GOD, FOR NO ONE LISTENS, BUT HE SPEAKS SACRED SECRETS BY THE SPIRIT.”
The Greek word translated “tongue,” glo-ossa, is the same word as that used at Acts 2:4, 11, where it obviously has reference to known languages. The Greek word translated “listens” can denote hearing something without understanding what is stated. This can be better understood in the light of verses 13, 16 and 17 of 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, where we read:
“Therefore let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may translate. Otherwise, if you offer praise with a gift of the spirit, how will the man occupying the seat of the ordinary person [or, unbeliever; see verses 22-25.] say ‘Amen’ to your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? True, you give thanks in a fine way, but the other man is not being built up.”
SIMPLY PUT, THE ONE SPEAKING IN A TONGUE SPEAKS TO GOD RATHER THAN TO MEN IF THE MEN WHO ARE LISTENING DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HE IS SAYING. Paul had in mind not unintelligible speech but foreign languages that potentially COULD BE UNDERSTOOD BY OTHERS. But if, in fact, none of those present could understand the language and if there were no interpreters present, then the one who spoke the tongue should pray that he might translate it and thus build up others, especially the unbelievers. If there was no one to translate, then, as the scripture says, it would be better for him to keep silent.—1 Cor. 14:28.

IS ‘SPEAKING IN TONGUES’ TO CONTINUE UNTIL THAT WHICH IS “PERFECT” COMES?
At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek te?lei?on, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue.

[david]

HEBREWS 2:2-4
“For if the word spoken through angels proved to be firm, and every transgression and disobedient act received a retribution in harmony with justice; how shall we escape if we have neglected a salvation of such greatness in that it began to be spoken through [our] Lord and was verified for us by those who heard him, while God joined in bearing witness with signs as well as portents and various powerful works and with distributions of holy spirit according to his will?”

When the Christians first arrived, the Jews had been God's people for quite some time. Something was needed to “verify” as the scripture says the shift in favor.
This is what the Bible says the miracles accomplished.

How are true Christians today identified?

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
O so what happened then was just for that time?
It is written that the Spirit no longer does works of power?
It is written to avoid those who offer powerless religion.
Did the Spirit of God lose that power shown in men in the first days of christianity?
Or have men denied and not allowed that power in them that they may be in control?

[Author]

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