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Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,07:10) Pardon me, but have either of you considered WHY blood is held of special account in the Bible–how God views blood? Why did God make these commands at all? Please consider all the scriptures that deal with blood.
But these scriptures were written by men who had good practical reasons to codify practices that eliminated blood and pork from the diet. To assert that these are absolutes from some 'giver of laws' is to make an ancient public health message into something it is not meant to be.To turn that into refusing a blood transfusion is mindless.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Their fear of questioning their beliefs is total showing that they are prisoners to their masters.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 25 2008,21:28) Hi Stu,
Their fear of questioning their beliefs is total showing that they are prisoners to their masters.
In what way are you different?!?Hi KJ,
Slaves of Christ yes as he serves God.
That is our privilege.
But servants of men and their human doctrines?
No.
You too should serve the Gardener in the vine.Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 26 2008,07:53) Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,07:10) Pardon me, but have either of you considered WHY blood is held of special account in the Bible–how God views blood? Why did God make these commands at all? Please consider all the scriptures that deal with blood.
Do you think any of those reasons justify doing something bad?example: letting your child die when a blood transfusion would save her.
If God let Jesus die, how do you judge him?Many look at this and think it foolishness as well.
Before we get into all the accusations, can you at least attempt for a second, to ponder WHY God put certain restrictions on blood.
Could you do that?
Quote But these scriptures were written by men who had good practical reasons to codify practices that eliminated blood and pork from the diet. What were those reasons stu? Please tell us.
Quote “If a doctor told you not to DRINK alchohol for health reasons would it be ok to have alchohol given through you blood stream since you aren't technically drinking it?” The obvious answer is no and thus they think they have proved their point.
If a doctor told you not to drink alcoholic beverages, would it be following his instructions if you put the alcohol into a hypodermic needle and injected the alcohol into your veins?
Yes, having something injected into your body is not eating it, true.
But can we consider WHY God commanded such things? Why God put restrictions on blood at all? Of course i have things to say on this, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has actually considered how God views blood and why he would put such a command up.
MATTHEW 16:24-25
“Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me. For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.”I have a question for Nick and anyone else who claims to follow the Bible (Anyone but stu really).
How do you regard the above words? Nonsense?“whoever loses his soul for my sake…”
Is it a ridiculous thought that someone should actually lose their soul (life) for their belief in Jesus?
Is this just unthinkable to you? Is this scripture nonsense?
Is the thought of losing your life, this present one, for the sake of Jesus completely unthinkable?How do you respond?
In a hospital, when a patient cannot eat through his mouth, he is fed intravenously.
Now, would a person who never put blood into his mouth but who accepted blood by transfusion really be obeying the command to “keep abstaining from . . . blood”? (Acts 15:29)
To use the comparison mentioned, consider a man who is told by the doctor that he must abstain from alcohol. Would he be obedient if he quit drinking alcohol but had it put directly into his veins?I realize that putting God's commands ahead of your present life takes faith in God. Which is worth more to you: Obedience to God or your little life?
To those with faith, this life, today, is nothing, a spec of time. To those with faith who actually believe in God's promises of a resurrection, the idea of disobeying or maybe even possibly disobeying God….Again, I ask you who believe in God: What use of blood has been approved by God?
Quote Hi Stu,
They use the bible but not wisely. Without finding support verses they build doctrines by superficial understanding of one verse and thus wander far from truth.Rich man and lazarus, meet nick. Pot, meet kettle.
Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,17:19) Quote Hi Stu,
They use the bible but not wisely. Without finding support verses they build doctrines by superficial understanding of one verse and thus wander far from truth.Rich man and lazarus, meet nick. Pot, meet kettle.
David to me in the end it is all words. just words.To let your child die because “MAYBE” a blood transfusion could be related to a diet restriction is not good.
I mean that it is bad.
It's the same as letting a man lay wounded in a ditch and not helping him because it is the sabbath.
What is true good, true light and true love?
That is God!
And one passage in acts that wasn't even written by actual disciples of christ but by reconstructionists should not lead you to let your child die.
Quote And one passage in acts that wasn't even written by actual disciples of christ but by reconstructionists should not lead you to let your child die. Do you think there's only one?
First, I think you should find the second one. Then, I suggest learning WHY or at least attempting to contemplate WHY God put those restrictions up. Have you even attempted to consider this?
Contrary to how some today reason, God’s law on blood was not to be ignored just because an emergency arose. During a wartime crisis, some Israelite soldiers killed animals and “fell to eating along with the blood.” In view of the emergency, was it permissible for them to sustain their lives with blood? No. Their commander pointed out that their course was still a grave wrong. (1 Samuel 14:31-35) Hence, precious as life is, our Life-Giver never said that his standards could be ignored in an emergency.
Quote It's the same as letting a man lay wounded in a ditch and not helping him because it is the sabbath.
Your comparison would only make sense if God for some reason had commanded that this man should lay in the ditch. Then, you come along and disregard God's will (which you fail to even attempt to understand) and say: Why should this man lay in the ditch? I'm going to break God's command and let him out and do what I THINK is right.Do emergencies make breaking God's law's ok? Please see above.
Just as a point of reference:
ACTS 15:19-20
“Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.”ACTS 15:28-29
“For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!””ACTS 21:25
“As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.””This thread is supposed to be on whether JW's are “Christians.”
I have opened up the “blood” thread that deals exlusivily on this subject.As to whether JW's are Christians and actually live their lives by the Bible or are just ones who say and do not perform, the last few pages have answered that. If there is any group that puts following the Bible above all else, even their lives, it is JW's. Done.
Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 26 2008,17:34) Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,17:19) Quote Hi Stu,
They use the bible but not wisely. Without finding support verses they build doctrines by superficial understanding of one verse and thus wander far from truth.Rich man and lazarus, meet nick. Pot, meet kettle.
David to me in the end it is all words. just words.To let your child die because “MAYBE” a blood transfusion could be related to a diet restriction is not good.
I mean that it is bad.
It's the same as letting a man lay wounded in a ditch and not helping him because it is the sabbath.
What is true good, true light and true love?
That is God!
And one passage in acts that wasn't even written by actual disciples of christ but by reconstructionists should not lead you to let your child die.
But even if it does not mean anything about blood transfusions, which I think it does, as God is an all knowing God and knows what will happen to his children, Think about the possible effects of a blood transfusion. You COULD get any number of blood transfered diseases through blood that is not tested properlu.Sevena
Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,16:56) Quote But these scriptures were written by men who had good practical reasons to codify practices that eliminated blood and pork from the diet. What were those reasons stu? Please tell us.
Blood is a good culture medium for microorganisms and if meat still contained undrained blood on consumption it could well prove a health hazard.One of several reasons not to eat infected pork (as probably was much porcine meat in ancient times):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrichnosisSo much for absolute laws from the lawgiver:
http://www.ajwrb.org/history/index.shtml#modernStuart
Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,00:37) Do emergencies make breaking God's law's ok? Please see above. - Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.”
Mat 12:3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
Mat 12:5 “Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,00:42) This thread is supposed to be on whether JW's are “Christians.”
I have opened up the “blood” thread that deals exlusivily on this subject.As to whether JW's are Christians and actually live their lives by the Bible or are just ones who say and do not perform, the last few pages have answered that. If there is any group that puts following the Bible above all else, even their lives, it is JW's. Done.
Last I looked, a Christian was not defined by their ability to follow the bible. Beyond that, we have already discussed the fact that almost every Christian denomination says they a bible followers yet they all have different practices.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 26 2008,19:08) Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,00:37) Do emergencies make breaking God's law's ok? Please see above. - Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.”
Mat 12:3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
Mat 12:5 “Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
The Hebrew Scriptures do not forbid what Jesus’ disciples did. But in the Mishnah we find a list of 39 activities forbidden by the rabbis on the Sabbath.—Shabbat 7:2.The Pharisees claim that picking grain and rubbing it in the hands to eat is “harvesting and threshing”–work.
But their strict interpretation of what constitutes work has made the Sabbath burdensome, whereas it was meant to be a joyous, spiritually upbuilding time.
The code of Jewish traditional law known as the Mishnah specifies 39 major categories of work forbidden on the sabbath, along with numerous sub-categories. Among the forbidden activities were sifting, threshing, grinding and winnowing. (Tractate Shabbath 7:2)
The Palestinian Talmud gives one rabbinical opinion of such forbidden work: ‘In case a woman rolls wheat to remove the husks, it is considered as sifting; if she rubs the heads of wheat, it is regarded as threshing; if she cleans off the side-adherences, it is sifting out fruit; if she bruises the ears, it is grinding; if she throws them up in her hand, it is winnowing.’So Jesus counters with Scriptural examples to show that Jehovah God never purposed such an unduly strict application of His Sabbath law.
When the PHARISEES said: “Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath” they weren't speaking of “not lawful” according to the scriptures. But the religious leaders of that time made sets of rules up not contained in scripture and it was one of these man made traditions that they were breaking.
Jesus explained that they were in error, giving examples. Even on the Sabbath the priests carry on butchering and other work at the temple in preparing animal sacrifices.
Quote Contrary to how some today reason, God’s law on blood was not to be ignored just because an emergency arose. During a wartime crisis, some Israelite soldiers killed animals and “fell to eating along with the blood.”
In view of the emergency, was it permissible for them to sustain their lives with blood?
No. Their commander pointed out that their course was still a grave wrong. (1 Samuel 14:31-35)
Hence, precious as life is, our Life-Giver never said that his standards could be ignored in an emergency.Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,10:40) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 26 2008,19:08) Quote (david @ Jan. 26 2008,00:37) Do emergencies make breaking God's law's ok? Please see above. - Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.”
Mat 12:3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
Mat 12:5 “Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
The Hebrew Scriptures do not forbid what Jesus’ disciples did. But in the Mishnah we find a list of 39 activities forbidden by the rabbis on the Sabbath.—Shabbat 7:2.The Pharisees claim that picking grain and rubbing it in the hands to eat is “harvesting and threshing”–work.
But their strict interpretation of what constitutes work has made the Sabbath burdensome, whereas it was meant to be a joyous, spiritually upbuilding time.
The code of Jewish traditional law known as the Mishnah specifies 39 major categories of work forbidden on the sabbath, along with numerous sub-categories. Among the forbidden activities were sifting, threshing, grinding and winnowing.
I was not referring to what Jesus did but his pointing out what David did. What do you have to say about King David?
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