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But perhaps you missed what I said in my last post. Yes scripture says “samuel.”
But scripture also says that God has no faith in his servants. They are compared to moths, easily crushed, quickly forgotten. Please READ my last post.
dave
David, as I posted in the soul thread, only God has the power to bring up a soul from the place where the souls were being held. The witch did nothing other then witness the event. Samuel did come up by the will of God and did appear to Saul. It is written.
1 Sam 28
“12 When the woman saw Samuel …”
“14 And Saul knew that it was Samuel,…”
“15Then Samuel said to Saul..”
“16 Samuel said…”
“20…because of the words of Samuel;”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2006,16:27) Hi and welcome BB,
Do spirit and soul mean the same?
Certainly Stephen said as he lay dying
” Lord Jesus receive my spirit”I think they can.
Scripture says we are body soul and spirit.[1thess]
It says our spirit returns to God when we die[eccl]But beings without bodies are called “spirits” in scripture such as when the disciples saw Jesus saw Jesus walking on the lake and thought he was a spirit.
Does a body sleep?
No a body rots away and returns to dust from whence it came.
Nick,
I differ in that I believe that the soul can be “housed” by either the body, or the spirit. When the scriptures speak of sleep in death I believe it to be referring to the fact that our body is still in the world but has no perception of the world (just as when we sleep we loss conscience of the world).Open for discussion
Hi ST,
I see it similarly but believe we are a fully integrated being till we die and that is why only the Word can discern our parts.Heb 4
” 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart”And then the body tent is separated and is gradually destroyed in the earth and then we can be called spirits or souls.
Nick,
I also agree “we are a fully integrated being till we die”.Maybe I'm getting off topic here (although I do believe this to differ from JW's beliefs), but I believe that God will resurrect this very body (he has the original blue prints and does not even need an DNA sample, lol). At some point in the future He will rejoin this body to my soul and spirit (them being brought back with Jesus when He appears in the clouds). What are your thoughts?
Hi ST,
I would expect the resurrected would be the same as the raptured saints and with them the new is put over the old according to 1 Cor 15.Sorry I am so late getting back. I have begun to study with the JWs and I find that so much peace is experienced when you can see that every thing taught is supported in the word of GOD. For the last four years I have not been consistently going to any church. Every service I would sit in I would find that so much was wrong it was unbearable. I have pull out my Strongs Concordance and my Hebrew and Greek Lexicon and found no issues that could not be confirmed or assumed from scripture. Most of all I know that they are seeking to please Jehovah God. I have not found this in any other church in the way God says we should seek to please HIM. Not just lipservice but real genuine seeking God's Word. As I said in another place the so called christian churches, that I have experienced have ministries that are more interested in building the membership, the buildings, and their pocketbooks by whatever means possible. I still believe that God's people can be found in various places. Only because I know what God has done for me before I met the JWs but I am wondering more and more if that was because HE was leading me to this peace and right fellowship. I have had so many attacks by the enemy on my life that dont make sense for someone so in to holiness as I am and seeking to know the word of GOD as I have been. I think I have been out of fellowship with GOD as I need to be. I think that you must yield and let God lead you. You have to let go of your preconceived notions that I have found can be more important to us than we know. God was leading me to the JW church before and I could not accept that they believed that Jesus was not God and may be Michael, the Archangel. I have study this extensively now on my own, before I began studying with them. I am studying every criticism that I hear about them. Most are unfounded and the teachings are more biblical than the accusers. I also noticed that people who know nothing of the JWs have an unexplained vehement anger toward them. This continues to amaze me.
Hi RJ,
If Jesus is Michael then why not Gabriel or some other angel? Read Hebrews 1-2 and you will he is not an angel.Quote I have begun to study with the JWs and I find that so much peace is experienced when you can see that every thing taught is supported in the word of GOD. Quote I have had so many attacks by the enemy on my life that dont make sense for someone so in to holiness as I am and seeking to know the word of GOD as I have been.
For you Rejoycesing, the 'attacks' or persecution or various trials will increase proportionally to the degree that you search out Jehovah. Satan doesn't want you becoming a friend to God. He has many ministers that will appear and actually believe they are doing you a service by persecuting you and attacking Jehovah. The closer you get to Jehovah, the harder things may seem to get. But with that, comes a certain joyful peace or happiness, knowing that you are on the right track, doing the right thing.
2 TIMOTHY 3:12
“In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.”
MATTHEW 5:11
““Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake.”
JAMES 1:2
“Consider it all joy, my brothers, when YOU meet with various trials,”
1 PETER 4:14
“If YOU are being reproached for the name of Christ, YOU are happy, because the [spirit] of glory, even the spirit of God, is resting upon YOU.”Quote I have begun to study with the JWs
Let me say that I am extremely happy for you.Quote God was leading me to the JW church before and I could not accept that they believed that Jesus was not God and may be Michael, the Archangel.
I would like to just say something on this. There have been two threads started and it's come up in 4 other threads and I've spent hours on here discussing Michael THE archangel. It's not as though this is a big, primary teaching of JW's. It basically almost never comes up. There are only a handful of articles on it, printed in the past 50 years. It's barely mentioned at all, EXCEPT FOR WHEN we meet some people at the door, who know a thing or two and want to explain to us why we are wrong. And on here. I just don't want people thinking that we go around talking about Jesus as Michael the archangel all the time. It appears Michael was given the name Jesus for his mission on the earth, even as God changed significant people's names when their role changed in God's purposes. (Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel for example.)Quote I am studying every criticism that I hear about them. Most are unfounded and the teachings are more biblical than the accusers. I also noticed that people who know nothing of the JWs have an unexplained vehement anger toward them. This continues to amaze me. Rejocesing, I couldn't have said it any better. Those last two sentences express my thoughts exactly. Time and time again, I have seen it, and it has amazed me too. It would be unexplainable, except for the fact that Satan is the ruler of the world and has blinded men to the truth. (2 Cor 4:4)
Quote I also noticed that people who know nothing of the JWs have an unexplained vehement anger toward them.
It's actually not “unexplained.” The Bible explains it.
MATTHEW 10:22
“And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”As I quoted a few pages back,
“The principal victims of religious persecution in the United States in the twentieth century were the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says the book The Court and the Constitution, by Archibald Cox (1987).
It's not just the U.S. The things that happen and the lack of a sound reason behind them almost defy explanation.Again, I'm happy to see that you are looking into this seriously.
david.
Nick, there is no question that, as Hebrews 1:4 says, “he [Jesus] has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.”
Nick, what does your Bible say at this verse?
Nick, imagine that there were 50 administrators on this site, and that you've just been given a very special commision. If I said of you:“He [Nick] has become better than the administrators, to the extent that he has inherited a title more excellent than theirs,” does this mean that you are not or were not an administrator? Maybe you became a super adminsitrator. Then I could ask all the same questions Hebrews asks of you?
Hebrews shows how high above the angels Jesus is. But it doesn't prove that he is not an angel, a word which simply means “messenger.” We've already established that among other things, Jesus is God's chief messenger, his very Word.
Nick, while you may get the impression that Hebrews is saying that Jesus is not an angel, nowhere does it actually say that. So, just as you accuse me of using reasoning to figure things out and say this is a bad thing, so could I of you. That scripture doesn't plainly say what you take it to mean. In fact, look at verse 4 again. What does it say Nick?And I really don't understand this question:
Quote If Jesus is Michael then why not Gabriel or some other angel? david
Hi david,
Administrators are appointed to their role.
Beings have a unique nature.
You could not be appointed an angel could you?Quote Administrators are appointed to their role.
Beings have a unique nature.
You could not be appointed an angel could you?But you do understand my point?
Jesus was appointed to carry out his Father's will on earth.
Nothing you said proves that I am wrong. You can apply many different better illustrations to prove that Hebrews doesn't necessarily mean what you take it to mean.“Beings have a unique nature”?
You might as well have just said: “Jesus isn't an angel.”
THAT Nick is what we are discussing. No circular reasoning please.“Beings have a unique nature” And what do you know about the nature of the Sons of God or the nature of the Son of God? Please tell us all.
david.
Nick, I'm not arguing that angels are exactly like Jesus. I'm arguing that your definition of “angel” is far too small. Jesus could be considered an angel or son of God. He difinitely fits in with the meaning of the word angel. He is God's Word, after all.
I'm not saying he's simply one of the angels. I'm saying he's the arch angel.“And let all God’s angels do obeisance [proskyneo] to him.” vs 6
You could similarly say of men and a king: “Let all men bow to the king.” This doesn't mean that the king is not a man. It in no way proves that.Nick, you won't find the phrase: “Jesus isn't an angel” anywhere in Hebrews. So, don't accuse me of reasoning things out, when you try to do the same yourself.
david
Hi david,
You will also not find scriptures that say Paul is the devil either
so what is not found is not actually that relevant
but we should not make doctrine out of what is not found
any more than we should make such a statement about Paul.It is not written that Jesus is an angel
It is not written that Jesus is an archangel
It is not written that Jesus is Michael.That should be enough for us.
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