I've rejected the trinity – now what?

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim2,
Just as Romans 8 shows the ONE Spirit of God in many different guises, so Jn 14-17 is full of different symbolisms for the work of God's ONE Spirit among men. The SON “has proceeded and come from God” but we should not assume God is ever separate as another person from the Spirit that “proceeds” from Him.

[Unisage]

Tim here are some great verses these should help you some.The Father is the Holy Spirit.

Joel 2:27-29- And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out MY SPIRIT upon all flesh; and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out MY SPIRIT.

Acts 2:17-18- And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of MY SPIRIT upon all flesh:….And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of MY SPIRIT;….

Ezek 36:27- And I will put MY SPIRIT within you,…

Ezek 37:14- And shall put MY SPIRIT in you,…

Ezek 39:29- Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out MY SPIRIT upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

Prov 1:23- Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out MY SPIRIT unto you,…

Isa 44:3- I will pour MY SPIRIT upon thy seed,…

Take Matt 10:19-20 with Mark 13:11 and Luke 12:11-12 and you will see that THE SPIRIT of YOUR FATHER is the Holy Spirit..

Mark 13:11- But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Luke 12:11-12- And when they shall bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: for THE HOLY SPIRIT shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Matt 10:19-20- But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER which speaketh in you.

John 14:10- but the Father that dwelleth in me(JESUS), he doeth the works.

Luke 11:13- how much more shall your heavenly FATHER give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

John 15:26- “When the counselor comes, whom I will send to you FROM THE FATHER, the spirit of truth who GOES OUT FROM THE FATHER, he will testify about me.

Isa 42:1-3- Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I HAVE PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM: he shall bring forth judgment to the gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. a bruised reed shall he not break,…….

Matt 12:18-20- Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, and he shall shew judgment to the gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neiher shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break,….

Acts 10:37-38- That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how GOD (the Father) anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power:…

Acts 2:33- Therefore being by the right hand of GOD exalted, and having received OF THE FATHER the promise of THE HOLY GHOST,….

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed…

John 6:27- Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the son of man shall give unto you: for him hath GOD THE FATHER sealed.

John 4:23-24- But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God (the Father) IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship him (the Father) must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Matt 10:20- For it is not ye that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER which speaketh in you.

Rom 8:11- But if THE SPIRIT OF HIM (the Father) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell IN you, HE (the Father) that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT that dwelleth IN you.

1Cor 12:13- For by ONE Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE Spirit.

Eph 4:4- There is one body, and ONE Spirit,…

Is not the Father Holy? Is not the Father a Spirit? Then it would make the Father the Holy Spirit!

[NickHassan]

Hi U,
While the Spirit manifests God and does the work of God and must be treated with the respect due to God on earth, God IS in heaven.

[Tim2]

Nick,

At least stick to your own standards. Where is it written that the Father manifests Himself as the Spirit? Nowhere.

U,

All of those verses distinguish between the Father and the Spirit. If the Spirit is the Father, it makes no sense to say, “The Spirit of the Father.” “The Spirit of the Father” only makes sense if (1) The Spirit is part of the Father; or (2) The Spirit is someone other than the Father. I believe Nick thinks the Spirit is the finger of the Father, but I don't believe the Father has parts, so I'm gonna go with (2).

Again, John 15:26 says Jesus will send the Spirit from the Father. If the Spirit is the Father, does this mean Jesus is sending the Father? It also says the Spirit proceeds from the Father. So you're saying the Spirit proceeds from the Father?

In John 14:25-28, Jesus is telling the disciples that He is leaving them to be with the Father, but the Holy Spirit will come to be with them. This makes no sense if the Holy Spirit is the Father.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim2,
God speaks through Christ of His finger as the Spirit.
Lk 11
18If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

19And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

20But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.”
Compare
Mt 12
“26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. “

If you had an audience with the Queen of England she would proffer her hand when you entered her presence and if you were her subject you would bow and kiss it. That hand is her and you greet her and show respect by doing so. But you would not speak to her hand as that would be foolish and insulting. He hand if of her but cannot hear. You would stand up and speak to her face to face.

[Unisage]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2007,06:56)

Hi U, While the Spirit manifests God and does the work of God and must be treated with the respect due to God on earth, God IS in heaven.

Nick Im not sure by what you really ment.are you saying that Holy Spirit is not the Father? Is there not but One Spirit?Sound like to me that you are seperating them.It sounds like that God is a Spirit but cant do anything without the Holy Spirit.I dont know nick you need to provide me some Scripture proof of what you say.

Matt 10:20- For it is not ye that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER which speaketh in you.

Rom 8:11- But if THE SPIRIT OF HIM (the Father) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell IN you, HE (the Father) that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT that dwelleth IN you.

Eph 4:4- There is one body, and ONE Spirit,…

[Unisage]

Nick that the way I learn that the Holy Spirit is God the Father.And Yes I know to give respect.But for some reason you stump me by what you said.And it has not sunk in yet.

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim2,
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory

[Unisage]

Nick

I dont know these verses are saying that God is the Holy Spirit.

Exodus 17:7

7And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?

Now watch Nick

Hebrews 3:7-9

7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

This is even stonger proof
Isaiah 63:10

10But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

2 Samuel 23
1Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,

2The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

3The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

Isaiah 6:9

9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Acts 28:25

25And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

Acts 5:3

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 13:2

2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

[NickHassan]

Hi U,
God is among all things by His Spirit
Acts 17
' 24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: '
But God, was in Christ[2Cor 5]as Spirit at the time he spoke, was said by Christ, to be in heaven.
Matt 6
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

So God is not JUST the Holy Spirit.
“

[Unisage]

Afew more Nick

1 Corinthians 3:16

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19

19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[NickHassan]

Hi U,
And also.
Acts 5
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

That is why blasphemy against the Spirit is worse than against Christ.

[Unisage]

Nick Acts 5:3 .I already shown that verse.

[NickHassan]

Hi U,
God is not just spirit or how could he POUR of HIS SPIRIT?

[Unisage]

Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,15:28)

Nick Acts 5:3 .I already shown that verse.

Nick

In Verse 4 says Ananais lied to God.This indicates that the Holy spirit and God are exchangeable and thus the Holy Spirit is God

Acts 5:4
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

[Unisage]

Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,15:09)

Afew more Nick 1 Corinthians 3:16     16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Corinthians 6:19     19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 2 Corinthians 6:16     16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Same with Paul Nick .This indicates that the Holy spirit and God are exchangeable and thus the Holy Spirit is God

1 Corinthians 3:16

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19

19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people

[charity]

Hi
Unisage

Is the Holy Ghost the Gift of specking the word of God perhaps?

Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Hbr 2:4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God bless And glad you have come

[Unisage]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2007,15:45)

Hi U, God is not just spirit or how could he POUR of HIS SPIRIT?

Ezekiel 11:19-20

19And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

20That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26-27

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Deuteronomy 26:17

17Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to walk in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice:

Deuteronomy 6:24-25

24And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

25And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,15:48)

Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,15:28) Nick Acts 5:3 .I already shown that verse. Nick In Verse 4 says Ananais lied to God.This indicates that the Holy spirit and God are exchangeable and thus the Holy Spirit is God Acts 5:4 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Hi U,
Was God in heaven at the time?

[Unisage]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2007,16:31)

Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,15:48) Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,15:28) Nick Acts 5:3 .I already shown that verse. Nick In Verse 4 says Ananais lied to God.This indicates that the Holy spirit and God are exchangeable and thus the Holy Spirit is God Acts 5:4 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. Hi U, Was God in heaven at the time?

Nick

How small is God? For your answer of your question.

Nick Who Got Mary Pregnant?

The Father has to be the Holy Spirit. If the Father is not the Holy Spirit, then the Father is not the Father of Jesus Christ.

Jesus came forth from THE FATHER..

John 1:14- and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,…

John 16:27- I came out from God (the Father).

John 16:28- I came forth FROM THE FATHER, and am come into the world:…

John 16:30- we believe that thou camest forth FROM God (the Father).

John 8:42- I proceeded forth and came FROM God (the Father);..

[Author]

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