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Hey Ethan,
I think that you need to be careful in saying that Jesus is the One True God, as this puts across an easily misunderstood concept of the way in which the Godhead is set up.
All the scripural evidence you put forward is indeed correct, however, Jesus (the man) was merely the created vessel that the uncreated substance (God) dwelt within(yet still inhabited all of creation).
His flesh(humanity) cannot be God.
But that which is in Him(Divinity) is certainly worthy of the title God, for it is the very same substance that is the Eternal, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Spirit that is the One God of both the OT and NT.
Here is Jesus being called God:
John 20:28 My Lord and my God 1John 5:20 This is the true God Jude 25 To the only wise God Hebrews 1:8 Thy throne O God.Jesus possessed the Divine attributes:
Omnipotence-Matt 28:18 All power is given unto me Omnipresence-Matt 18:20 For where two or more are gathered in my name there am I
Omniscince-John 2:24,25 He knew all menJesus possessed Divine prerogatives:
Recieved worship-Matt 14:33 Then they…came and worshipped Him.
Forgave sin-Mark 2:5 Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Creator-John 1:3 All things were made by Him.This is why God has taken the name Jesus, as this is the only time that God Himself dwelt in the perfect vessel to fulfil the scripture: Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.KJV
This fact is confirmed when God is asked the question: "Who are you" in Acts 9:5.
Therefore, in light of the above scipture, we find that the One True God remains the same, and more importantly, He now has His own personal name!
GJG,
God’s name is not Jesus, it is YHWH.
Jesus is not the flesh part of a union of God in flesh. Jesus is a unique person who partook of the flesh and who partakes of the divine nature too.
Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the firstborn of all creation, the Head of the Church, the ruler of God’s creation and the Image of God.
He is not God himself. He is the Mediator between God and man, which makes him the only way to God.
Quote Quote: from t8 on 7:36 am on Aug. 23, 2003
GJG,God’s name is not Jesus, it is YHWH.
Jesus is not the flesh part of a union of God in flesh. Jesus is a unique person who partook of the flesh and who partakes of the divine nature too.
Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the firstborn of all creation, the Head of the Church, the ruler of God’s creation and the Image of God.
He is not God himself. He is the Mediator between God and man, which makes him the only way to God.
Point taken:)I think I may not be explaining my reasoning clear enough maybe.
Jesus is indeed unique, as He was not born into sin, due to His Divine conception.
I am interested in your thoughts regarding "flesh is not who we are, rather the spirit within us" (something along those lines). Also the "maybe we are simply God’s thoughts", after all, is that not what creation is; God’s thoughts spoken into existence? I agree with this reasoning 100%, as there seems to be evidence along this line of thought within various scripture.
It is this common ground that may help me to explain my reasoning a bit better.
Sin is simply our true ‘self’ in a state of disobedience, towards the one who ‘thought’ us into being, thus; separation from the one who cannot fellowship with sin. I think you mentioned that our flesh simply contains our true self. Yes, flesh is nothing more than stuff from the ground; also, it is this ‘stuff’ that makes us into an actual ‘person’. Therefore, emotions are simply physical responses within this ‘stuff’ resulting from how we are thinking, depending on what state our true ‘self’ is in: happy, sad, angry…etc.
Spirit-filled believers however, have this sinful ‘self’ striving to come under subjection to the Spirit that created it, within the created ‘stuff’; our flesh. This begins when ones sins have been washed away at baptism, allowing the infilling of the Holy Ghost (Spirit of God), into a now spotless vessel (retaining the sinfull nature). This Spirit that inhabits all of creation (God), by definition, has all humanity existing within Himself; God only requires a clean vessel to dwell within.
So it seems that we are (our true self) made of a substance that is much like (if not the same as) our creator: spirit.
Jesus was also born of the same ‘stuff’ as you and I, yet this flesh was clean and sinless from conception. Jesus was still fully man: ‘self’ within a container made of ‘sinless’ flesh. However, because His Father was Spirit, this supernatural seed conceived a truly unique ‘person’, so that it would be fair to say that this unique person had a ‘Dual-self’: “Divinity clothed in humanity”. This “God with us” was given many titles; Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of peace, Mighty God, Emmanuel, etc, but only “One Personal Name”: JESUS.
This unique person (before being glorified into heaven) had many similarities to Spirit-filled believers:
Flesh, Born of a woman, Full humanity, Holy Ghost filled, Indwelling Fullness of God, Operating in the Spirit Realm (miracles), Dual-nature, etc.
However the differences are overwhelmingly clear:
Received worship, Forgave sin, The Only Wise God, The Holy One, Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence!
Therefore, the key difference is this:
Due to the absence of a sinful nature in this unique person, there is absolutely no ‘separation’ whatsoever, between the substance that is God, and the substance that is Jesus! “I and my Father are one”….”When you have seen me, you have seen the Father”…”I am in my Father, and He in me”….”We (Spirit-filled believers) have the mind of Christ”…etc. THE FLESH IS NOT WHO HE IS!
Remember: The body (pure vessel) of Jesus has been changed into a glorified form, so that the pure vessel which housed God is no more. The thought (logos) of God, is no longer manifest in the flesh (until He desires to do so again). This new form has been seen manifested as an intense bright light, and God Himself is also called Father of lights.
Regarding the above reasoning: The Eternal Spirit God remains the same unchanging substance, regardless.
Thus, the one personal name of the Spirit that is God, is none other than: JESUS.
Lookin 4ward 2 ur reply:)
Hi,
GJG's complicated explanation is flawed because he ignores the soul and tries to fit scripture into just body and spirit.Heb 4.12.f “God's Word is living and effective, sharper than any two edged sword. It penetrates and divides soul and spirit,joints and marrow..”
1Thess 5.23″..May he preserve you whole and entire ,spirit soul and body,..”
1 Peter3 21″..This baptismal bath is no removal of physical stain but the pledge to God of an irreproachable conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”The vessel for the spirit is surely the soul and not just the flesh which is just a veil for the person we are?
Hi,
Rejecting the trinity concept of God frees us to realise the truth of the message brought by the Son of God and the salvation in him available to all.
The Word of God, and not the theories of men, provides a sound foundation for the inner teaching of the Holy Spirit who reminds us of the words of Jesus.[Jn 14.26].The weeds are pulled out and the true seed can grow.
Repentance from false gods and false beliefs clears the soil for the planting of the true seed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Baptism brings us God's forgiveness and cleansing of the conscience with rebirth by the Spirit into new and eternal life.Quote (gl @ Dec. 12 2002,02:02) I myself have been convinced in the unsoundness of the trinity theology and your site has convinced me that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God.
The story of Joseph is a great analogy for the relationship between God and his son. Joseph was give the power of Pharaoh by Pharaoh, but Joseph was still subject to Pharaoh.
Having said all that my question is what do I do? Should I approach my pastor with this? I'm a member of a church and have signed a doctrinal statement that includes the trinity. I'm certain I will have to leave the church. And what makes difficult is that my wife and children are member of the church and her conclusion is to leave it alone.
I need fellowship with other believers, but it will be difficult to find a church that does not push the trinity doctrine.Any suggestions?
Godfrey.
Hi,
The relationship between the Pharaoh and Joseph provides many parallels between the relationship between the Father and the Son of God.
And all of Joseph's family were blessed by that relationship, perhaps a symbol of how we can share the benefits too entering through Jesus into the family of God?Hi,
Some are set free from the paralysing tentacles of the trinity folly to know and love our Father God.Now what?
Share what you have learned with others!
Invite others to study with you.
Start a home fellowship with like-minded believers.
Check the Internet for fellowships.
Church of God Abrahamic Faith is a Christian church that rejects the Trinity.
Also, Christadelphians also reject the Trinity. Try some of these for fellowship.Above all, be strong and courageous. Those who endure to the end…….will receive life. Narrow is the way that leads to life.
Rejoice! You have been given a gift. Knowing who God is – is the ultimate knowledge. The ultimate privilege.
If you've rejected the Trinity:
1. Beg Jesus for mercy.
2. Read the Bible.
3. Pray.
4. Repeat.
5. Repent.
6. Believe in the Trinity.I know. I've done it.
Tim
All,
Watch out for those who are dressed in sheeps clothing…….. They have knowledge that makes no sense, and they worship what they do not understand. I believe Paul referred to it as the “unknown God.”
For it is eternal life to KNOW God, and his Son (John 17:3).
Who has KNOWN the Trinity? Sorry to say, not even Tim2.
For he can only present scriptures that “pretty clearly” speak of the Trinity.
Do not base eternity on “pretty clear” scriptures, but rather on TRUTH.Try these sites to get started in the Truth: http://www.biblicalunitarian.com, OR http://www.truthortradition.com. These are good starting points only. Email me for more study information and possible fellowship information in your area.
No, watch out for heretics with incomprehensible theories like Nick's “Jesus is some sort of vessel for God and was God but isn't anymore.” Or “Jesus wasn't a person until His birth in spite of the fact that He is the first and the last and created all things (John 1:3).”
The Trinity isn't pretty clear. It's explicit. Jesus is God. John 1:1. The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:4. Get over it.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
I have said none of those things so please be accurate in quoting people.
We are being more accurate quoting what you PROPOSE about a PRETTY clear theory of God.
Perhaps you prefer a god who cannot be known?Nick,
Sorry I misquoted you. I guess I was just mad from all the times you quoted me as saying that Jesus is His Father. Let's agree to stop doing that, ok?
Tim
Hi Tim2,
If what you defend is truth then it will never upset you to do so.
The truth is not of us and is from above.The Trinity isn't pretty clear. It's explicit
*************
Now your getting down-right cocky, Tim2. Be careful or we will challenge you on this. WHERE O WHERE is the Trinity doctrine listed EXPLICITLY in scripture?Nick,
You're an Admin for this site, right? So you should have some decency then, right? Why then, after I reach out to you, saying, let's not misquote each other, do you imply once again that I believe the Father is the Son. I don't believe that. Stop avoiding the real issue of the Trinity by attacking modalism. And please show some decency and agree with me not to misquote each other. Don't make me go to the admin feedback board.
Tim
Not3,
I stated the Trinity doctrine on another forum but you said it wasn't relevant. Here it is again:
There is only one God. Deuteronomy 4:35.
The Father is God. John 17:3.
The Son is God. John 1:1.
The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:4.Tim
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