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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always EdQuote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always Ed
B.tharta.What religion do you realy follow,is it islam or christian,or both? Bits of this and that; according to your taste.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2012,04:03) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 23 2012,19:08) Hi Wakeup, You are claiming that people will get a second chance. This is not true.
The hour of salvation is when? NOW.
You are taking parts of the Old Testament and adding them to the chapter of Revelation 20, which are not there, parts of the Old Testament that Jesus or the Apostles never mentioned.
Rather than go through your points one by one at the moment, I would like you and anyone else who is interested to listen to this Audio Sermon, which is EXCELLENT,
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=63011831190
Thank you.
Hi Beesee.Are you really saying that there is only one resurrection?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup, No, There are two resurrections. They are both in Revelations Chapter 20:
“And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.”
This was around the time of Jesus' resurrection from the dead.
Continuing Chapter 20:
“Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
“Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.”
So this is the time from the resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the Saints up until this present time:
And the second resurrection continues in Revelations chapter 20:
“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”The second resurrection.
One consideration, Quote:
As Benware notes, the two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 are important to the amillennial system. The first resurrection is a spiritual one, associated with the individual accepting Christ. The second resurrection is a physical one that will occur after the millennial period.”
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/amillennialism.htm
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 24 2012,18:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2012,04:03) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 23 2012,19:08) Hi Wakeup, You are claiming that people will get a second chance. This is not true.
The hour of salvation is when? NOW.
You are taking parts of the Old Testament and adding them to the chapter of Revelation 20, which are not there, parts of the Old Testament that Jesus or the Apostles never mentioned.
Rather than go through your points one by one at the moment, I would like you and anyone else who is interested to listen to this Audio Sermon, which is EXCELLENT,
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=63011831190
Thank you.
Hi Beesee.Are you really saying that there is only one resurrection?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup, No, There are two resurrections. They are both in Revelations Chapter 20:
“And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.”
This was around the time of Jesus' resurrection from the dead.
Continuing Chapter 20:
“Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
“Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.”
So this is the time from the resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the Saints up until this present time:
And the second resurrection continues in Revelations chapter 20:
“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”The second resurrection.
One consideration, Quote:
As Benware notes, the two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 are important to the amillennial system. The first resurrection is a spiritual one, associated with the individual accepting Christ. The second resurrection is a physical one that will occur after the millennial period.”
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/amillennialism.htm
Beesee.If there are two resurrections,can you explain, when will be the first, and when will be the second?
wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 24 2012,18:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2012,04:03) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 23 2012,19:08) Hi Wakeup, You are claiming that people will get a second chance. This is not true.
The hour of salvation is when? NOW.
You are taking parts of the Old Testament and adding them to the chapter of Revelation 20, which are not there, parts of the Old Testament that Jesus or the Apostles never mentioned.
Rather than go through your points one by one at the moment, I would like you and anyone else who is interested to listen to this Audio Sermon, which is EXCELLENT,
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=63011831190
Thank you.
Hi Beesee.Are you really saying that there is only one resurrection?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup, No, There are two resurrections. They are both in Revelations Chapter 20:
“And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.”
This was around the time of Jesus' resurrection from the dead.
Continuing Chapter 20:
“Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
“Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.”
So this is the time from the resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the Saints up until this present time:
And the second resurrection continues in Revelations chapter 20:
“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”The second resurrection.
One consideration, Quote:
As Benware notes, the two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 are important to the amillennial system. The first resurrection is a spiritual one, associated with the individual accepting Christ. The second resurrection is a physical one that will occur after the millennial period.”
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/amillennialism.htm
Beesee.1. If there are two resurrections,can you explain, when will be the first, and when will be the second?
2. Will satan be cast in prison before the coming, or at the coming?
wakeup.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always Ed
Have you not submitted to the teachings in the quran – yes or no?Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 24 2012,22:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always Ed
Have you not submitted to the teachings in the quran – yes or no?
EDJ.You mean baptised by the sword?
wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,08:58) Hi Wakeup, Not sure what you mean?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EDJ.Muslems dont babtise by water do they.
Wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 24 2012,22:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always Ed
Have you not submitted to the teachings in the quran – yes or no?
I have submitted to God and have done so even before reading the Quran that is why I read the QuranQuote (Wakeup @ Oct. 25 2012,08:49) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 24 2012,22:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always Ed
Have you not submitted to the teachings in the quran – yes or no?
EDJ.You mean baptised by the sword?
wakeup.
False analogyQuote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 25 2012,12:25) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 24 2012,22:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2012,08:49) Hi BD, That is incorrect; 'islam' is submission to the teachings of 'the false prophet'(Muhammad).
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Incorrect as always Ed
Have you not submitted to the teachings in the quran – yes or no?
I have submitted to God and have done so even before reading the Quran that is why I read the Quran
B.tharta.Did you read the bible before you submitted to God?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 25 2012,00:34) Beesee. If there are two resurrections,can you explain, when will be the first, and when will be the second?
wakeup.
Well according to the book of Revelation the first resurrection has already happened.Beesee.
So does this mean that you have missed out the first resurrection?
And where does it say in revelation about the 1st resurrection has past?
wakeup.
Wakeup, it says that the first resurrection happened in chapter 20.
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.Thousand years in my belief is thousands of years – or a very long time.
Also another thing which I believe is that the book of Revelation is not in any type of chronological order, and things are often retold from another point of view, so I see chapter 20 as a very short summary of most of the things that are in there up until chapter 21.But this thread is for any Muslims so – back to topic!
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 26 2012,21:23) Wakeup, it says that the first resurrection happened in chapter 20. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.Thousand years in my belief is thousands of years – or a very long time.
Also another thing which I believe is that the book of Revelation is not in any type of chronological order, and things are often retold from another point of view, so I see chapter 20 as a very short summary of most of the things that are in there up until chapter 21.But this thread is for any Muslims so – back to topic!
Beesee.So Christ has already come to resurrect the beheaded.
now he is coming again for the second resurection.How many times is jesus suppose to come?
I always thought only twice,not 3times.First time is his birth.
Second time is to resurrect the beheaded.
Third time for the second resurection.Something is wrong here.
Its not Good to start changing the scriptures to make a piont.
The scriptures said one thousand years,why have to change it to; along time; meaning more than 2000years?There is adifference between the first and the second resurrection. the second resurrection is the white throne judgement. All judged by the book; not so in the first.
I still have the same question for you.
When did jesus came to resurrect the beheaded? (the first resurrection).When did it happen?wakeup.
Wakeup (or anyone else for that matter),
Can you answer then what these verses mean:Matthew 27:50
And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and MANY BODIES OF THE SAINTS WHO HAD FALLEN ASLEEP WERE RAISED, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
James 1:17-18
Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth THAT WE SHOULD BE A KIND OF FIRST FRUITS OF HIS CREATURES.
Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, and they sing a new song BEFORE THE THRONE AND BEFORE THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES AND BEFORE THE ELDERS. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been REDEMED FROM THE EARTH.
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; THESE HAVE BEEN REDEEMED FROM MANKIND AS FIRST FRUITS for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.
Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, WITH AN ETERNAL GOSPEL TO PROCLAIM TO THOSE WHO DWELL ON EARTH, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.
Quote Its not Good to start changing the scriptures to make a piont.
The scriptures said one thousand years,why have to change it to; along time; meaning more than 2000years?Wakeup, most of the book of Revelation is symbolic.
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 27 2012,18:25) Wakeup (or anyone else for that matter),
Can you answer then what these verses mean:Matthew 27:50
And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and MANY BODIES OF THE SAINTS WHO HAD FALLEN ASLEEP WERE RAISED, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
James 1:17-18
Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth THAT WE SHOULD BE A KIND OF FIRST FRUITS OF HIS CREATURES.
Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, and they sing a new song BEFORE THE THRONE AND BEFORE THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES AND BEFORE THE ELDERS. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been REDEMED FROM THE EARTH.
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; THESE HAVE BEEN REDEEMED FROM MANKIND AS FIRST FRUITS for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.
Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, WITH AN ETERNAL GOSPEL TO PROCLAIM TO THOSE WHO DWELL ON EARTH, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.
Quote Its not Good to start changing the scriptures to make a piont.
The scriptures said one thousand years,why have to change it to; along time; meaning more than 2000years?Wakeup, most of the book of Revelation is symbolic.
Hi 2Besee,Please ask “specific” questions; OK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Oct. 27 2012,18:25) Wakeup (or anyone else for that matter),
Can you answer then what these verses mean:Revelation 14:1
And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, and they sing a new song BEFORE THE THRONE AND BEFORE THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES AND BEFORE THE ELDERS.
No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand
who had been REDEMED FROM THE EARTH.Wakeup, most of the book of Revelation is symbolic.
Hi 2Besee: OK, Ill take this one to explain…Melchizedek was a “King Priest” office
rather than just merely a person.
Jesus Christ fills this office. → → → → (Link)
“Blessed be the LORD God of Shem” (Gen 9:26)
“Tents of Shem” equal 144Genesis 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in
the tents of Shem(144); and Canaan(Ham's son) shall be his servant.
The Holy City, New Jerusalem (Rev 21:16-17 )The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof,
an hundred and forty and four(144) cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and
no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four(144) thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Here's where it starts to get interestingRev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed
an hundred and forty and four thousand(144,000) of all the tribes of the children of Israel.“an hundred and forty and four thousand“ – equals 373 (which is the 74th Prime number)
Here's where it starts to get's even more interesting“JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS”=373 (John 19:19)
This most popular phrase curiously adds up to the 74th prime number: 373.
Furthermore: “The King” equals 74 as well, which is at the center of this complete phrase.
The significance of the number 74In English, the significant number 74 is attributed to “JOSHUA”=74 and “Messiah”=74; also
in the following: “JESUS”=74, “Cross”=74, “Gospel”=74, and even “English”=74.“Jesus Christ” (74×32) also factors 74 in Greek Theomatically:
[Jesus] Ιησους=74(x12), [Christ] Χριστоς=74(x20).
[Son of Man] υιος τον ανθρωπου=74(x40).And even GEMATRIA equals 74.
(LINK to the thread THAT PROVES GOD’s EXISTENCE)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Quote (2besee @ Oct. 27 2012,18:25) Wakeup (or anyone else for that matter),
Can you answer then what these verses mean:Matthew 27:50
And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and MANY BODIES OF THE SAINTS WHO HAD FALLEN ASLEEP WERE RAISED, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
James 1:17-18
Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth THAT WE SHOULD BE A KIND OF FIRST FRUITS OF HIS CREATURES.
Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, and they sing a new song BEFORE THE THRONE AND BEFORE THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES AND BEFORE THE ELDERS. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been REDEMED FROM THE EARTH.
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; THESE HAVE BEEN REDEEMED FROM MANKIND AS FIRST FRUITS for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.
Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, WITH AN ETERNAL GOSPEL TO PROCLAIM TO THOSE WHO DWELL ON EARTH, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.
Quote Its not Good to start changing the scriptures to make a piont.
The scriptures said one thousand years,why have to change it to; along time; meaning more than 2000years?Wakeup, most of the book of Revelation is symbolic.
2Beesee.When did Jesus come to resurrect the beheaded?
Was it last year,or ten years ago,or what.(just give the year,and not scriptures).
You must answer qustions in discussions.wakeup.
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