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bod
Quote I really didn't change at all because the Quran doesn't change anything it simply clarifies 
you realy don't miss an opportunity
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2012,00:58) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 07 2012,16:41) Bod, You were a Christian… That is different than being a Muslim who lives in a country or a home where they know nothing else.
What made you change?
Surely you saw that it was not telling the TRUTH?
I really didn't change at all because the Quran doesn't change anything it simply clarifies. It would be like watching a sequel to a movie in which the sequel fills in parts the previous movie/movies didn't reveal.There is a huge difference in something being the truth and something being revealed. When Jesus came it was so surprising and disturbing to the Jews they preffered part 1 with Moses they didn't like there Hero being “upstaged” in their eyes and then it's like the third part is released and it seems to shocking to believe but it actually confirms the first 2 parts.
Imagine you see in a film a crucifixion and you cry in the movie that the star died and then came back to life but then another movie comes out and their is a twist to the story and he wasn't crucified although it appeared to have happened.
My point is I read it forward as an unfolding if you read it backwards you can't believe it and then when you go backwards again you can't believe Jesus is the Messiah.
So my faith in God let me see the TRUTH so I don't consider myself any less “Christian” because I follow the way of Christ and I follow him right into Submission to God.
I understand what God having “no Son” means it is not taking away from Jesus at all it is simply making a clear statement that God doesn't function like us HE doesn't reproduce because HE CREATES by COMMAND so Adam and Jesus are similar Miraculous creations they are not his two sons, but the Bible calls both of them sons of God and Christians simply select one over the other and decide with Adam it is just a figure of speech but with Jesus it is literal so how is that clear?
Hi Bod I started up a new thread on this post, okay.Quote (2besee @ Nov. 08 2012,06:45) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 07 2012,21:45) 2Beesee.Seek and ye shall find. Seek what? seek the scriptures,and we will find the Lord.
Wakeup, God called me to the Scriptures years ago and I read the Scriptures as I developed a relationship with God, and although I have not read the Scriptures from beginning to end, and although I cannot do humongous posts and use big words (ha ha – the Apostles used simple words didn't they!), it does not effect my relationship with God. What has and continues to effect my relationship with God is when I lack the faith and when I neglect praying and also when I sin and when I disobey God.
Quote John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Can you explain that a bit more?
Quote Its best to follow Jesus; he says eat my flesh.
The word of God is spirit,so we eat that word by seeking.
The more you eat, the more you become like him.I do want to become more like Him. But what of all of the people who have read the Scriptures for decades and they are less like Him it seems, with the more that they read? Especially on Internet Forums!
Is Paul the problem?
Sometimes I wonder this, and I have since the beginning.
2Beesee.Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the *milk*, and drawn from the *breasts*.
—– ——-
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and *fall* backward, and be broken, and *snared*, and *taken*.
When you pray, or seek the scriptures,you make sure you dont have hate stored up in your heart. And seek for the right reasons,not for honour, or a title, such as doctor in theology,or professor in theology.These are the proud.
This is the reason, Jesus chose the simple fisherman to follow him.
Paul is a great apostle; it is because of Paul, that we gentiles got the gospels. He is an expert in the old testament,and he was given the Holy spirit to teach both.
Some of the christians dont like paul for a reason.
Paul has confronted them with a big question that they could not understand. The question regarding Jesus being the first creation of God. They love to tear out colossians if possible.wakeup.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2012,12:01) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 08 2012,11:16) Wakeup, what I mean is that i have been on Internet Christian Forums for a couple of years now on and off and I have encountered some quite bizarre behavior, and this is in Christians who seem to have absolute knowledge in the scriptures, to a scholarly level, however their behavior is anything 'but' Christian (although they can put on a nice face when it is in their favor to do so!) You could rightly say that is is only in a few individuals and that they have personal problems and that it proves absolutely nothing..
however, if you look at some of the biggest forums that there are (for example, 'Carm') the same behavior is seen in the majority of the posters, and they are, again, all very knowledgeable in the Scriptures.
Another thing I have noticed is that the more that a person seems to read and study the scriptures, the more 'odd' their DOCTRINES can become (The opposite of the 'simplicity' which is 'in' Christ)
Do you see what I am saying?
It is just an observation and one which I am interested in knowing more about. “Knowledge Shall Increase” (Daniel). Has knowledge increased TOO much?
I agree, they start reading too much into the scriptures that are not there.
B,tharta.There is a reason why you can not see the difference between the Holy bible and the qur'an,accept the bible has been corrupted,and the qur'an is perfect.
That is because you heart is more for the qur'an,
but you also like the bible, and you put all the contradictions on the bible side.I have noticed also that you reject not only some of the new testament,but also some of the old testament to make the qur'an more perfect in your eyes.
If you realy feel that the qur'an is perfect and the bible is corrupted,then why still hang on to the bible?
Just study the qur'an,and see how much knowledge you can get out of that book only?
Cant have both,for they are the total opposite.
If you mix hot and cold ;you get luke warm.wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 08 2012,11:16) Another thing I have noticed is that the more that a person seems to read and study the scriptures, the more 'odd' their DOCTRINES can become (The opposite of the 'simplicity' which is 'in' Christ) Do you see what I am saying?
It is just an observation and one which I am interested in knowing more about. “Knowledge Shall Increase” (Daniel). Has knowledge increased TOO much?
Hi 2besee,You will find that their doctrines become odd because each person is interpreting the bible to be what they want it to be, so they read into it much more than is really there.
The scriptures have to become more complicated in order to make any sense of what they are saying. There are too many contradictions.I admire your willingness to question. Most Christians are afraid to, because to question makes you wicked according to the bible.
Tim
Timothy.
There are no contradictions as far as Im concerned.
Contradictions will only be found if the reader can not understand what he is reading.Not forgetting it is a spiritual book; not just a story book,although there are also true stories and some history in there,but mainly prophecies.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2012,23:26) Timothy. There are no contradictions as far as Im concerned.
Contradictions will only be found if the reader can not understand what he is reading.Not forgetting it is a spiritual book; not just a story book,although there are also true stories and some history in there,but mainly prophecies.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,There are hundreds of contradictions. Those need to be discussed in another thread.
Without bending truth in all directions, try to explain the difference in how Judas spent his blood money and died.
ACT 1:18: “Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”
MAT 27:5-7: “And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter's field.”
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 09 2012,00:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2012,23:26) Timothy. There are no contradictions as far as Im concerned.
Contradictions will only be found if the reader can not understand what he is reading.Not forgetting it is a spiritual book; not just a story book,although there are also true stories and some history in there,but mainly prophecies.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,There are hundreds of contradictions. Those need to be discussed in another thread.
Without bending truth in all directions, try to explain the difference in how Judas spent his blood money and died.
ACT 1:18: “Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”
MAT 27:5-7: “And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter's field.”
Tim
Timothy.Two or three persons saw a car accident,and they are to write down a testimony about the accident.
You will find that the three testimonies wont be exactly the same,and yet it is describing the same accident.Each according to what they saw,and write.
They dont copy each others writings.wakeup.
Hi wakeup,
There is a huge contradiction in how Judas spent his money and how he died.Didn't God inspire these people to get their story straight?
You said “Two or three persons saw a car accident, and they are to write down a testimony about the accident.
You will find that the three testimonies wont be exactly the same, and yet it is describing the same accident.”Not if one of them said that the car hit a tree and the other one say it drove off a cliff and exploded it's insides out.
They are not describing the same accident.How can you say that these two stories are not contradictory? You are being dishonest now. With two stories that much different you can't believe either one of them.
TIm
Timothy.
1. Matthew was a disciple,he knew christ when he was alive.
he was very short regarding the death of judas.
He just said ;and he hanged himself. and nothing more.2.Paul was not a disciple when jesus was alive but later,after the resurrection. And Paul obviously did not see the hanging.
He must have heard the story that went around.This has nothing to do with the Holy spirit telling him what happened.The Holy spirit only teaches regarding the spirit;it does not teach what happened to the neighbour yesterday. Or how the neighbour died. This only can come from what people are saying in the area.
wakeup.
So are you saying that God inspired untrue stories be told in the bible? I guess you can't believe what Paul says.
God did inspire the writers of the bible didn't he?Tim
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 09 2012,02:55) Timothy. 2.Paul was not a disciple when jesus was alive but later,after the resurrection. And Paul obviously did not see the hanging.
He must have heard the story that went around.This has nothing to do with the Holy spirit telling him what happened.wakeup.
Paul wasn't around when Jesus was supposedly alive at all.
So according to you, nothing that Paul said can be trusted.Tim
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2012,20:37)
2Beesee.Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the *milk*, and drawn from the *breasts*.
—– ——-
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and *fall* backward, and be broken, and *snared*, and *taken*.
When you pray, or seek the scriptures,you make sure you dont have hate stored up in your heart. And seek for the right reasons,not for honour, or a title, such as doctor in theology,or professor in theology.These are the proud.
This is the reason, Jesus chose the simple fisherman to follow him.
Paul is a great apostle; it is because of Paul, that we gentiles got the gospels. He is an expert in the old testament,and he was given the Holy spirit to teach both.
Some of the christians dont like paul for a reason.
Paul has confronted them with a big question that they could not understand. The question regarding Jesus being the first creation of God. They love to tear out colossians if possible.wakeup.
Wakeup I agree with you and one of my favorite (he-he) verses in the NT is “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants.”
I have been on forums and I have read through those posts which are done by the 'scholarly types' and they are boring! But then along comes a simplistic person and they speak their heart and they have so much more truth and a good and humble spirit behind what they say, and I think “God Bless them!” But, sadly, it is them that tends to get ignored by those 'other types', they miss so much.
The Scriptures I believe were written in a way where the “every-day people” could understand and hear the true message, without going too far into it.
When I was inspired to read the Scriptures, I understood. When I got to Paul, I couldn't understand Him. So I skipped it. And now I see why.
Yes I believe that Paul was an Apostle and I know that it is through Paul that the Gospel was sent around the world and this is the fulfillment of prophecy, so I am not AGAINST Paul at all.
But when it comes to seeking out the truth of a matter, I stick with Jesus and with the Disciples of Jesus.
No offense.
Matthew, “John”, James, John, Peter, & Jude.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 09 2012,00:09) Hi 2besee, You will find that their doctrines become odd because each person is interpreting the bible to be what they want it to be, so they read into it much more than is really there.
Hi Tim. I agree.
Quote The scriptures have to become more complicated in order to make any sense of what they are saying. There are too many contradictions. Depends what Books you follow, I think.
Quote ….because to question makes you wicked according to the bible. Where does it say that?
I question aLOT!Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 09 2012,04:15) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 09 2012,02:55) Timothy. 2.Paul was not a disciple when jesus was alive but later,after the resurrection. And Paul obviously did not see the hanging.
He must have heard the story that went around.This has nothing to do with the Holy spirit telling him what happened.wakeup.
Paul wasn't around when Jesus was supposedly alive at all.
So according to you, nothing that Paul said can be trusted.Tim
Timothy.The holy spirit is the spirit of truth,he inspiries all about Gods truth.
The apostles were given the holy spirit after the resurrection;on the day of pantecost.Before that, they could not understand what Jesus was teaching.Paul was their enemy,untill he was confronted by Christ,on his way to damascus. And he was given a job to preach to the gentiles.
Example: Paul did not have to wait for the Holy spirit to tell him that he was bitten by a snake on his way to such and such place,or that he had something wrong with him.(a thorn in his flesh).
What he tells us is the truth,for he will not tell lies.
What he tells us the about judas has to be realy what happened in more detail.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2012,18:55) Quote
B,tharta.There is a reason why you can not see the difference between the Holy bible and the qur'an,accept the bible has been corrupted,and the qur'an is perfect.
That is because you heart is more for the qur'an,
but you also like the bible, and you put all the contradictions on the bible side.No, I see all the information as unfolding I believe contradictions are a part of truth, for instance if we have contradictions of how Juda died it gives us insight to A: Judas existed B: Judas died an unnatural death C: Judas did take some sort of bribe
Remember the Quran does not say Christ Jesus didn't exist so again any contradictions are also proofs, The Jews want to completely deny that Jesus was the Messiah they were waiting for. The Quran says that Jesuswas that very same Messiah and the Jews sought to Crucify him but they weren't succesful which contradicts Christian teachings but validates Historic Jesus outside of it's main source of information
Quote I have noticed also that you reject not only some of the new testament,but also some of the old testament to make the qur'an more perfect in your eyes. If you realy feel that the qur'an is perfect and the bible is corrupted,then why still hang on to the bible?
I think that all the writings are perfect in the sense that they even point out man made faults I don't reject any of the old or new testament. I just move forward in context
Quote Just study the qur'an,and see how much knowledge you can get out of that book only? Actually studying the Quran is equal to studying the entire Bible, I haveread both entirely and the Quran is Amazing in it's capturing the entire OT and NT it is like a clear summary of all that was before it.
Quote Cant have both,for they are the total opposite.
If you mix hot and cold ;you get luke warm.Honestly in regards to a book about God and knowing God the Bible doesn't hold a candle to the Quran it is a book that will completely have you in love with God directly, you may have not even experienced what I'm talking about because to do so you would have to have went “THROUGH” Jesus and found God on the other side but right now to you Jesus is a stumbling block
B,tharta.
Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the *GOSPEL* of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the *GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM*, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the *GOSPEL* preached to them.
Matthew 24:14 And this *GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM* shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Where is the QUR'AN MENTIONED?
THERE WAS NO QUR'AN THEN? SO WHAT WAS PREACHED?
The qur'án is not the gospel of the kingdom.Can you set this straight.
Hi Wakeup,
I follow exactly what Jesus and the Disciples have said. If the verses which you and others have PUT into Revelations are not there, then I will read them as not being there, because that is what it says – do not add to nor take away from.When Jesus comes back, all will be destroyed and only some will be left standing (The Chosen).
And you still haven't answered me (I don't think)…. How will you know that the “Jesus” who (IYO) will sit on a literal throne in Jerusalem will be the REAL Jesus?
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 09 2012,17:53) Hi Wakeup,
I follow exactly what Jesus and the Disciples have said. If the verses which you and others have PUT into Revelations are not there, then I will read them as not being there, because that is what it says – do not add to nor take away from.When Jesus comes back, all will be destroyed and only some will be left standing (The Chosen).
And you still haven't answered me (I don't think)…. How will you know that the “Jesus” who (IYO) will sit on a literal throne in Jerusalem will be the REAL Jesus?
2Beesee.1. I did not add anything to the book of revelation,but just interpret it.
2. your believe is: that at the coming,all will be destroyed,accept a few standing.
This is not a fair God; what happens to the children living in pakistan being taught islam not Jesus?
What happened to the children born before Chist?3. Where would you fit in the 2nd resurrection; all judged by the books?
4. Why is satan not destroyed at the coming? why?
5.Your question:how will I know that the real Jesus is the one sitting on his literal throne in Jerusalem.
It is *before* the coming that the false prophet will sit on his throne and call himself God in Jerusalem. He and his 10 horned beast will be cast in the fire. *But not satan*why?? rev.19:20. Jesus will SET UP his kingdom soon after all is done away with.
If you keep on asking such questions, you will get there in no time.God bless.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,
“The coming”, as you put it, happened a “Pentecost”. (Link)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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