Islam

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2012,12:44)

So there is no literal begetting like nicodemus taking it literally.

Baptism itself is symbolic

Agree.

Quote

The bottom line is when you repent and turn towards God He will give you a fresh new start cause you have submitted to His will, you will become GODly you will reflect the image and likeness of God s a child reflects the image and likeness of his parents. But Godliness is not being GOD.

Agree.

Quote

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How much more truer words could there be? I was reading those verses and imagining being Nicode'mus listening to the words of Jesus.

When you are born of the flesh you are in the flesh, and what a curse that can be, but, when you are born of the spirit, you are a new person, amen.

Now carry on reading – verse 12-15,

“If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”

If you believe Jesus words, bod, then Jesus right here has said that as Moses lifted the serpent up in the wilderness, so must the son of man be also lifted up. This of course has to do with the cross, or, how would you explain what Jesus said, if you believe his words to be true?

October 31, 2012 at 8:58 am#318317

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2012,13:13)

Hi Wakeup,

But that's just it, the interpretations you are giving are false.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EDJ.

Because you simply will not see all the scriptures that backs it up.
Scales has closed your eyes from seeing.

wakeup.

October 31, 2012 at 9:50 am#318320

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2012,13:05)

Okay, so let's examine the last supper
I's funny you should call it that because Jesus ate with them after that when he was standing in front of them alive explaining that he was not in fact a ghost but was alive flesh and bone and hungry he then ate broiled fish and honey comb

Mark 14:36-42

King James Version (KJV)

36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?

38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.

40 And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.

41 And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.

Hmm, listen to the words,

“And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt.”

Submission.

But it also says:
John 10:17,

“For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father.”

And what do you think Jesus meant by this:

Mark 8:31-36,

” And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
And he said this plainly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. But turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter, and said, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are not on the side of God, but of men.”
And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it.
For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?

Can you feel the passion in his voice?

Quote

The Last Supper is about a betrayal and so I ask you if it was the intention of Jesus to die forthe sins of the world how is there then any betrayal? Jesus asked God 3 times to SAVE him from this betrayal and death so the question is did God hear him?

Jesus answers this:

John 11:40-42

King James Version (KJV)

40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

I believe that God heard Jesus and Saved him as the Quran explains.

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)

158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

159 And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-

You could take that either way.
It would fit what Jesus said, dependent on how you understand it I guess.
Do you believe the words of Jesus or that little bit of text in the Quran which could mean either, when Jesus said it clearly to us many times exactly what WAS to happen and also what DID happen.

October 31, 2012 at 9:55 am#318321

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2012,10:19)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 30 2012,14:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 30 2012,12:57)

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 27 2012,20:53)

Bd,
Islam denies that jesus was the SON of God, and also denies that Jesus was ever crucified or resurrected, true?

Islam clearly shows and proves that for God to procreate a child is beneath His Majesty and is a Human act God does not beget nor is he Begotten to call Jesus the son of God is to make him also a God this is told to be wrong in the Bible itself God says:

Isaiah 43:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

If You believe what God Himself says here then the Quran is also correct saying:

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
( سورة الإخلاص , Al-Ikhlas, Chapter #112, Verse #3)

So what this means is the Bible is using metaphor and poetry. God calls many people his sons throughout the bible even calling the angels sons the Quran simply clarifies the actual message. When we say someone is a son or daughter of someone else they were created through sexual intercourse, God did not have sex with Mary he did not have a Baby “With” Mary. God did not fornicate with Mary the more you understand the point the more you should be able to see that it is a monstrous thing if taken any more than poetic speech. When Jesus spoke to Mary Magledine at the tomb he said he was going to his God and her God to his Father and her Father, If he was the literal son of God then what would Jesus be saying this to Mary for, it wouldn't be really true about her right?

As Far as the crucifixion goes the Quran explains that they thought they crucified Christ Jesus but did not kill him or crucify him although thought they had.

Do you recall Jesus ever saying

Matthew 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Jesus was raised up to God without being killed or crucified and that is Glorious but not if you think your life depends on his death, right? Isn't that funny that I get excited that God saved Jesus but you get excited when you believe his death saved you. You have to actually want Jesus crucified where as I just have to believe Jesus when he said “repent for the remission of sins”

B,tharta.

If Jesus was not resurrected from his grave,then there is no resurrection of the dead;our faith is in vain.There is nothing ahead.

Lets just live to the full,and be merry for tomorrow we will die.

wakeup.

Jsus doesn't have to be resurrected from the grave for there to be a resurrection otherwise he would not have said “I am the resurrection”

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

This is the truth.

B,tharta.

1. If Judas iscariot was crucified instead of Jesus; what happened to his body?

2. Who hanged himself?

3. Acts 20:28.—–which he had puchased WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

4.Gen.3:15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,and between thy seed and her seed; It shall bruise they head,AND THOU SHALL BRUISE HIS HEEL.
Was this about Judas iscariots heel, or Jesus?

5. You need to read all pslms 22.

verse 16. For dogs have compassed me; the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: THEY PIERCED MY HANDS AND MY FEET.
verse 18. They part my garments among them,and cast lots upon my vesture.

Please correspond.

wakeup.

October 31, 2012 at 9:58 pm#318349

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 31 2012,19:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2012,06:11)

Shalom 2Besee,

islam is a fleshly religion, promising the followers of it
72 virgin girls and 300 boy slaves in the afterlife.

B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

Hi Ed,

I did learn about Islam several years ago – but I forget a lot now.

Back then I was loving what I was learning but then it got to the stage where I learnt that Islam denies Jesus as being the son of God, and then puts Jesus down to the level of a prophet who is no different than Mohammad etc, and that is where I left it.

The info ED wrote down is not in the Quran. If you want to know Islam you have to read the actual Quran it is the Ultimate authority on Islam, this is why all Christians don't believe in the trinity it's because the Bible does not teach it ( At least not directly)

You are focusing on how you perceive the denial of Sonship when in fact Jesus is called a Spirit that proceeded from God and a Word from Him this doesn't lessen The Greatness of Jesus at all he is The Christ but that doesn't mean God had/has actual children.

The problem is not saying that Jesus is the Son of God the problem is when it is taken literally if taken literally you are saying something quite monstrous

Sura #19

88 They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!”

89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

90 At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,

91 That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.

92 For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

93 Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.

Here is the problem if God is the literal Father of Jesus and Mary is the literal Mother then they are the Literal Parents, right?

So that would make Mary the mother of the Son of God but if Mary was a Humble servant and God created Jesus with a command that Mary conceive a child she is the Mother of a child that God brought forth through her without any intimate means.

She is a servant of God and so is Jesus they are not his “family” members. she is not the Wife of God or as many Catholics like to say “The Queen of Heaven”

To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #101)

October 31, 2012 at 10:01 pm#318350

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 31 2012,19:19)

Bod, why do you use the KJV? It was altered by trinitarians in quite a few places from what I have learnt. RSV is good.

I use various versions but the Bible itself has been altered verses added and some taken away and many things moved around out of their original place. The Quran makes things clear very literal.

October 31, 2012 at 10:10 pm#318351

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 31 2012,19:49)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2012,12:44)

So there is no literal begetting like nicodemus taking it literally.

Baptism itself is symbolic

Agree.

Quote

Agree.

Quote

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How much more truer words could there be? I was reading those verses and imagining being Nicode'mus listening to the words of Jesus.

When you are born of the flesh you are in the flesh, and what a curse that can be, but, when you are born of the spirit, you are a new person, amen.

Now carry on reading – verse 12-15,

Because he was lifted up but you read that in a earthly way I read it in a spiritual way you think it is talking about the cross I believe what the Quran says:

Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #158)

What's interesting about you using the story of Moses is that those people started worshiping the pole snake that he lifted up just like people worship Jesus on the Cross.

King Hezekiah (reigned 715/716 – 687) instituted a religious iconoclastic reform and destroyed “the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did offer to it; and it was called Nehushtan.” (2 Kings 18:4) The tradition of naming it Nehushtan is no older than the time of Hezekiah.[1] Source: Wikipedia

October 31, 2012 at 10:38 pm#318353

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 31 2012,20:50)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2012,13:05)

Mark 14:36-42

King James Version (KJV)

36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?

38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.

40 And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.

41 And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.

Hmm, listen to the words,

“And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt.”

Submission.

But it also says:
John 10:17,

And what do you think Jesus meant by this:

Mark 8:31-36,

Can you feel the passion in his voice?

Quote

Jesus answers this:

John 11:40-42

King James Version (KJV)

40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

I believe that God heard Jesus and Saved him as the Quran explains.

I believe what Jesus says in the Bible and Quran but to understand what Jesus says and does you would have to understand him as a servant of God.

Isaiah 42:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?

Seeing that Jesus would not be all knowing and that God is Jesus could say and do things that would not always be fulfilled such as:

Matthew 10:23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

You see what I mean? This has nothing to do with his greatness it has to do with him thinking one thing at the time but the situation occurs another way likewise he could very well assume he would be crucified but it simply didn't occur.

Pontious pilate said he would let him go and so did Herod 3 times they said they would let him go, then they took him inside and brought out a badly beaten man and crucified that man asked “My God why have you forsaken me” Jesus was just in the Garden saying “yet not what I will, but what thou wilt”

So after Jesus agrees to whatever the will of God is do you think he would then go back on that and ask why he was being forsaken? Besides as you pointed out he said

“because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again”

If this is the case then it would be impossible to say “My God, My God why have thou forsaken me”

For as Jonah wasthree days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be…

Now, I ask you was Jonah dead at any time? No he was thrown overboard and it appeared that he had been killed and they threw him over as a sacrifice. Day 1 was Jonah dead or alive? He was Alive Day 2 was Jonah dead or Alive? He was Alive Day 3 was Jonah dead or Alive? and again He was alive.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah wasthree days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will
be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

October 31, 2012 at 11:05 pm#318355

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 31 2012,20:55)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2012,10:19)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 30 2012,14:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 30 2012,12:57)

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 27 2012,20:53)

Bd,
Islam denies that jesus was the SON of God, and also denies that Jesus was ever crucified or resurrected, true?

Isaiah 43:10

King James Version (KJV)

If You believe what God Himself says here then the Quran is also correct saying:

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
( سورة الإخلاص , Al-Ikhlas, Chapter #112, Verse #3)

As Far as the crucifixion goes the Quran explains that they thought they crucified Christ Jesus but did not kill him or crucify him although thought they had.

Do you recall Jesus ever saying

Matthew 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

B,tharta.

If Jesus was not resurrected from his grave,then there is no resurrection of the dead;our faith is in vain.There is nothing ahead.

Lets just live to the full,and be merry for tomorrow we will die.

wakeup.

Jsus doesn't have to be resurrected from the grave for there to be a resurrection otherwise he would not have said “I am the resurrection”

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

This is the truth.

B,tharta.

1. If Judas iscariot was crucified instead of Jesus; what happened to his body?

2. Who hanged himself?

3. Acts 20:28.—–which he had puchased WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

5. You need to read all pslms 22.

verse 16. For dogs have compassed me; the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: THEY PIERCED MY HANDS AND MY FEET.
verse 18. They part my garments among them,and cast lots upon my vesture.

Please correspond.

wakeup.

The Quran does not say that it was Judas who was on the cross it is believed by some Muslims that it was Judas it is true that the death of Judas has 2 different stories one is he hung himself the other is he fell and died.don't try too much to figure out who it could have been but I have studied enough to know that Jesus not being crucified yet providing salvation for those who believe and repent because before God led me to read the Quran he gave me this passage:

Leviticus 16:10

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 But the goat on which the lot for the [a]scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat.

In other words Jesus made atonement for the people at his baptism and was sent into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan and this is where he over came the world and completed his mission.

John 17:4

American Standard Version (ASV)

4 I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do.

Now if he completed the work here before the cross what would then be the purpose of the Cross atonement was achieved when John Baptised Jesus look again about the scapegoat

Leviticus 16:21-22

King James Version (KJV)

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Remember John the Baptist said that Jesus was to “take away” the sins

“by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness”

Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Now what reason would Jesus have to get baptised, Who would he be repenting for? But look

Matthew 4:1

English Standard Version (ESV)

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

If the devil could have broken him in the wilderness and got him to sin he would have lost but this is where he won.
In Other words Jesus had defeated the devil before His ministry even started. He took on the believers sin by proxy at the baptism hence John says:

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Amen?

November 1, 2012 at 1:48 am#318392

Participant

B,tharta.

You have failed to answer all my questions.
—————————————————————–
The scape goat took the sins of israel ONLY into the wilderness.Not the sins of the world.

Jesus finished his preaching,thats his work,finished.
His crucifixion is God, scrificing his only son,for the world.
Showing that he loves us first.

For God so LOVED the world that he GAVE his only son that whosoever BELIEVED in him should not perish,but have everlasting live.

You are denying Gods gift to you.You are saying,no to God.

Because mohamad says, that you never gave us your son or anything.
You gave us an imposter; a fraud.You only made us believe that it was your son.But it was a lie.Mohamd said so,and I believe him,he speaks the truth. YOU LIED TO US GOD.

You have put mohamad up, as supreme judge;to judge the holy book according his wisdom.
HE, decides which is correct and which is incorrect in the holy book.And proceeded to write his own version, according to his own wisdom.

And you B,tharta, have made your decision to favour mohamad, despite all the contradictions.

wakeup.

November 1, 2012 at 8:19 am#318439

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 01 2012,11:01)

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 31 2012,19:19)

Bod, why do you use the KJV? It was altered by trinitarians in quite a few places from what I have learnt. RSV is good.

I use various versions but the Bible itself has been altered verses added and some taken away and many things moved around out of their original place. The Quran makes things clear very literal.

Bod, I don't believe that the bible was altered in any big way, some translations were altered in a few places…. in this you are correct…. but versions such as the RSV are pretty accurate, and also, it is the spirit which helps us to understand what we are reading correctly, do you know what I mean?

November 1, 2012 at 8:22 am#318440

Participant

Jesus spoke in 'riddles' for those who have the ears to hear.

November 1, 2012 at 8:48 am#318442

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 01 2012,10:58)

The problem is not saying that Jesus is the Son of God the problem is when it is taken literally if taken literally you are saying something quite monstrous

Sura #19

88 They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!”

89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

90 At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,

91 That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.

92 For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

93 Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.

Here is the problem if God is the literal Father of Jesus and Mary is the literal Mother then they are the Literal Parents, right?

She is a servant of God and so is Jesus they are not his “family” members. she is not the Wife of God or as many Catholics like to say “The Queen of Heaven”

Who teaches that God had relations with Mary? This is not true, and most – if not all of Christianity would not believe that, so why is it that the Quran is taking the word 'begot' literally?

If God can beget any person – the act of begetting is an adoption by God, a lifting up and taking as a child of God in a loving sense, it is a begettal of love and it is in the spiritual world, and spiritual sense.

I don't see where this understanding has come from?

November 1, 2012 at 9:59 am#318446

Participant

Bod,

Belief is something that takes time to arrive at, and for some people that includes looking at other religions as well, but we each have our own concrete beliefs that we will not let go of, because we know in our hearts that it is true, and also truths which we learn as time goes by. For me, God led me to the Bible, but I also found truths in Islam, I liked the submission to God and the love of the one true God, it was more simple and I have always noticed the type of dedication that Muslim people have to God. Some things are definitely lacking in Christianity, and we are in a great apostasy from truth these days, and also there is a lack of love which is genuine.

But then there are things which I could NOT embrace in Islam and these are the key things to me, and that is that Jesus IS the Son of God and should not be mocked in the way which I have seen Jesus mocked in Islam, and also Jesus IS higher than Mohammad.

Jesus said,

'Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.'

Now absorb this spiritual food from the Bible:

'When Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, “WHO DO MEN SAY THAT THE SON OF MAN (Jesus) IS?”
They said, “SOME SAY JOHN THE BAPTIST, OTHERS SAY ELLIJAH, AND OTHERS JEREMIAH OR ONE OF THE PROPHETS.”
He said to them, “BUT WHO DO YOU SAY THAT I AM?”
Simon Peter replied, “YOU ARE THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.”
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For FLESH AND BLLOD HAS NOT REVEALED THIS TO YOU, BUT MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.]

What could be more simpler than that? Forget what MAN has to say – forget all of the theological debates and discussions!! WHO WAS JESUS? HE WAS THE CHRIST – THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD…. simple!

Luke 9:35
And a voice (of God) came out of the cloud, saying, “THIS IS MY SON, MY CHOSEN, LISTEN TO HIM!”

Listen to HIM Bod, not to a man who came much later… not to a man or woman today – nay, not even to me!

Why do you not trust Jesus' words?

November 2, 2012 at 2:15 am#318517

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 01 2012,08:58)

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 31 2012,19:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2012,06:11)

Shalom 2Besee,

islam is a fleshly religion, promising the followers of it
72 virgin girls and 300 boy slaves in the afterlife.

B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

Hi Ed,

I did learn about Islam several years ago – but I forget a lot now.

The problem is not saying that Jesus is the Son of God the problem is when it is taken literally if taken literally you are saying something quite monstrous

Sura #19

Here is the problem if God is the literal Father of Jesus and Mary is the literal Mother then they are the Literal Parents, right?

She is a servant of God and so is Jesus they are not his “family” members. she is not the Wife of God or as many Catholics like to say “The Queen of Heaven”

B,tharta.

I see that you have knowledge of the scriptures,but you have not the knowledge of DECERNING the scriptures.
your knowledge is just in two dimensions.

To truly understand the scriptures one need to be able to see it in three dimesions.

The words that came out of jesus mouth;is the father speaking.
sample: when Jesus said before Abraham was I AM.
this is God speaking.

When Jesus prayed: This was jesus speaking *TO* his father.
When jesus cried;my God my God; is jesus; crying *To* his father,as a man.

Jesus was baptised NOT for his sins; but just to follow the law as a man born in the law.

Jesus was the word made flesh; of which mohamad is not.
The word was with God from the beginning; of which mohamad is not.

God, has Jesus in the palm of his hand ,before the world was; Of which mohamad is not.

John17:5. And now O Father,glorify thou me with thine own self;WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE—BEFORE THE THE WORLD WAS.

Mohamad can not claim this,can he?
God resides in Jesus: Gods own words;This is my beloved son.We can not compare Jesus with mohamad,as two equal prophets.

Mohamad received his inspiration in a cave by an angel CLAIMING to be Gabri'el. How can we find out for sure that he is indeed gabri'el?

For satan can appear as an angel of light and can claim to be anything. So how can we find out?
See the fruits of the teachings.

Mohamads teachings appear to be preaching God ;but at the same time contradicting Gods word,this can not be Gabri'els teachings.

Gabri'el would never have told mohamad to replace the holy bible for the qur'an. So who was this angel?
Gabri'el would have never said that Jesus was NOT the son of God,and that he never DIED ON THE CROSS.

Here is GABRI'ELLS OWN WORDS, Dan 9:26. And after 62 weeks SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF, but not for himself:

Cut off meaning killed. Was the gabri'el of DANIEL, the same gabri'el OF mohamad? Or was the gabri'el of mohamad an imposter? I know he is the latter.Mohamad has been duped by an imposter angel.
This makes the qur'an the book of an imposter.

So why bother picking up the book of the imposter,is beyond my comprehension.
—————————
The holy spirit is not more powerfull than Jesus; this is not true.

John16:14. HE (holy spirit) SHALL GLORIFY ME; FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE.

John15:26. When the comforter is come whom I WILL SEND UNTO YOU——-

He who send is GREATER than he that is send.
The holy spitit is the spirit that is in the word,and that word is the truth.The truth will give us comfort.
The untruth will give us sadness,and despair.

Boditharta; You have not understood the depth of the holy scriptures.

Greetings to you.

wakeup.

November 2, 2012 at 3:53 am#318540

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 01 2012,12:48)

B,tharta.

Jesus finished his preaching,thats his work,finished.
His crucifixion is God, scrificing his only son,for the world.
Showing that he loves us first.

For God so LOVED the world that he GAVE his only son that whosoever BELIEVED in him should not perish,but have everlasting live.

You are denying Gods gift to you.You are saying,no to God.

And you B,tharta, have made your decision to favour mohamad, despite all the contradictions.

wakeup.

Jsus said his work was finished before they were to “crucify” him

17:3-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

You say that the scapegoat took the sins of Israel away only but what did Jesus say:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

This is why Paul talks about being grafted in.

why do you think the word “gave” means gave for sacrifice?

Muhammad was a Prophet it is not him I am relying on it is his revelation from God not his own wisdom at all. He would have had no reason to make both Jews and Christians go against him. The Jews because he declares Jesus as Christ and the Christians because he declares that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed why would anyone make up something that would not be in their best interest?

November 2, 2012 at 5:19 am#318557

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 02 2012,14:53)

Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 01 2012,12:48)

B,tharta.

Jesus finished his preaching,thats his work,finished.
His crucifixion is God, scrificing his only son,for the world.
Showing that he loves us first.

For God so LOVED the world that he GAVE his only son that whosoever BELIEVED in him should not perish,but have everlasting live.

You are denying Gods gift to you.You are saying,no to God.

And you B,tharta, have made your decision to favour mohamad, despite all the contradictions.

wakeup.

Jsus said his work was finished before they were to “crucify” him

17:3-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

You say that the scapegoat took the sins of Israel away only but what did Jesus say:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

This is why Paul talks about being grafted in.

why do you think the word “gave” means gave for sacrifice?

B,tharta.

Jesus took the sins of the world,if he didnt,we are all lost.
His work was to preach the light,thats his work.
The sacrifice is to show us that he loved us first.
Such a great love that he is willing to die at such an early age
for us to open the door to his God for us.

But we all must go through that one and only door(the word of God) to come to God, not some other door.

Verily I say unto you,except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and DIE,It abideth alone; but if it DIE, it bringeth forth much fruit.We are saved by the blood;meaning by his suffering,and death.

Without the crucifixion, and resurrection, he would have been forgotten.The disciples would have been disappionted,and gone their own way.

Jesus had to die to bring much fruit.

Jesus came to bring the light to his children first(jews) and then the gentiles. He did not come for the jews alone.

He died for the WORLD.

Mohamad maybe was genuine, but he does not know that he was duped by an imposter angel. He was used.
The qur'an is contradictory to the word of God.
So If you realy love God,you leave it alone for your own sake.

Eve believed the serpent, and she was deceived.
Mohamad believed that angel,and he was deceived.
Satan always contradicts God. Good is evil, and evil is good.

You can not use that same excuse; that the bible has been tampered with by the jews.
Even so; God has given us a way to seek and find.

If there is a mistranslation somewhere,a seeker can find out by visioning the whole context,by the whole picture, that someone has been putting the wrong pieces in that picture.

The word Gave; means exactly what it says. to give,to hand over.
He was only 33yrs young,he has a lot ahead of him.
He was not killed at an old age; lets say 90 or so.

The qur'an is not in hamony with the scriptures ,because it is from a different source; a different author.

Lets be wise,lets not go for religion,but the truth.
Religion can not save lives,but the truth will set you free from the shackles of satan.

The big picrure is wonderful to look at,once you have that in your mind.

wakeup.

November 3, 2012 at 3:36 am#318667

journey42

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2012,03:33)

Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 28 2012,22:52)

Hi 2Besse

Quote

Hi Journey,
I think we that we should keep this thread on topic – 'The kingdom of the antichrist is Islam' – okay?

And I think Edj has been given enough proof that the kingdom of the antichrist is not Islam.

Hi Journey42,

You haven't given any “proof” to the contrary? …only your opinions.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Edj

Rev 13:16 And he causeth ALL, BOTH SMALL AND GREAT, RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

You say this is ISLAM? Islam does this? You say Islam is doing this now? Or they will take over, and no man can buy or sell unless they convert to Islam? You say the false prophet is Mohammad? And he is in control of the whole world, and kills anyone who will not worship him? ? Is this correct?

Well then how do you explain this?

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called “The Word of god.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sword, that with it he should SMITE THE NATIONS: and he shall RULE THEM with a ROD OF IRON and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thight a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.,
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heave, COME GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the SUPPER OF THE GREAT GOD;

Rev 19:18 That YE MAY EAT THE FLESH OF KINGS, and the FLESH OF CAPTAINS, and the FLESH OF MIGHTY MEN, and the FLESH OF HORSES, and of THEM that SIT ON THEM and THE FLESH of ALL MEN, BOTH FREE AND BOND, BOTH SMALL AND GREAT.

So this Mohammad, that forced the whole world to convert to Islam and killed those that opposed, including christians,….these same people ALL,…. BOTH SMALL AND GREAT, RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND, These ones forced to recieve a mark in their right hand or in their forehead look forward to this reward for all the pain they suffered, even death by beheading…look forward to this?
That they be counted as meat, a feast of dead carcasses prepared by God for the SUPPER OF THE GREAT GOD for his angel to call forth or the fowls of the air to come and feast on their flesh?

November 3, 2012 at 8:36 am#318686

Participant

Good posting Wakeup.

BOD…

If you knew the Bible so well, and you knew Jesus, then when you switched to Islam, you would have had to deny Christ. You would have had to deny all that you KNEW about Him.

Perhaps you were only a young Christian, I don't know… but Jesus is the truth and the way and the life, and there is NO OTHER WAY.

Did you know that Muslims all over the world are having dreams and visions of Jesus? Did you know that Jesus is appearing to them? And many of these are Muslims who have never heard the truth,
Anyway, it is a choice that you made, perhaps one you might want to reconsider or pray about, Bod. Time is running out, make sure that you are on the true path.

Take care.

November 4, 2012 at 1:05 am#318765