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Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 25 2012,22:14) Yes. Jesus will take his throne in Jerusalem. He will rule with the saints. Journey, Jesus is on his throne in HEAVEN and then the new Jerusalem will come down from heaven onto the new earth and it will have no need for a temple because its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb (Rev 21)
Quote For the saints to rule with him, they must have others to rule over. They are ruling from Heaven now, look at Rev 1:
“Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Quote The boundaries of the kingdom will extend Israel's borders. In fact, the kingdom will be 2,220km long, 2,220km wide, and 2,220km high. (Rev 21:16] *Rev 21:16* And *THE CITY* lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, *TWELVE THOUSAND FURLONGS*. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
This is the boundary of the kingdom. It will be roughly as long as egypt up to Lebanon. That whole area will be Israel. The temple however will be in Jerusalem. That's the headquarters, where Christ and the saints will be based. In the inner court (temple).
Journey, from that same chapter, Rev 21:
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;
and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;
he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
So this New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven is on the new earth – this is after the great white throne judgment of all of the people who ever lived.
“And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God”.
“And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.
“Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God's sight chosen and precious;
and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
For it stands in scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and
precious,
and he who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
To you therefore who believe, he is precious, but for those who do not believe, “The very stone which the builders rejected
has become the head of the corner,”“Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God upon their foreheads.”
And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand of the tribe of Naph'tali, twelve thousand of the tribe of Manas'seh,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand of the tribe of Is'sachar,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Zeb'ulun, twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin.After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
In Rev 11, The Angel says to measure the temple and all that worship there and the measurements are given but John is told not to measure the court outside the temple because it is given over to the “nations”.
Now, what temple is this?
The answer is there. Go back to what Paul said, and also what Jesus said regarding the temple – the temple of his body.
Paul said:
“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own”
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?
If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and that temple you are”.“What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will live in them and move among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people”So, if God's people make up the temple and are the body of the head which is Christ then the measurements of the temple would consist of the people who make up that temple, and outside of the temple of true worshipers are the figurative nations.
Now remember too that Jesus said that the wheat would grow with the chaff until the harvest so that fits in with the whole picture.
So, go to Revelations chapter 21:2 and you will see that the New Jerusalem COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN to the NEW earth (rev 21:1) which is cleansed with fire and it has no need of a temple because it's temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.
Nothing to do with an earthly temple of stone or an earthly Jerusalem as this is all on the new earth and the temple comes down from heaven and is not made of hands.
Something to think about.
Quote Let me also add. God has chosen for himself a remnant from Israel. This remnant goes way back, to the Hewbrews, and those at Christ's coming. They are chosen by election, so it is not all of them. These Israelites will be raised in the flesh, not spirit. They have to come through Christ now, for no man can enter the kingdom of God unless he goes through Christ. Most of these never had a chance for they died under the law. I believe that there will be a remnant of Jews alive today who do not know Jesus YET but they have good hearts and will recognise him when he returns and will thus be saved. These are the “True Jews” (Google 'True Torah Jews')
Any person who died before Christs first advent, Christ died for them as well, and so they are saved if their name is found written in the book of life (Rev 20:11) at the white throne judgment of
all of the dead.Quote They will marry in the kingdom, and produce offspring. No, they will not marry in the kingdom and produce offspring because Jesus said that at the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage because they will be like the angels in heaven.
Quote They will be protected, and no harm will ever come to them. They will build their own houses, eat their own fruit. The kingdom will be filled with orchards, and with all the treasures of the earth. This is the land, now flowing with milk and honey. God will restore it. Put animals in there, that will not kill. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together (Isaiah 65:25) The Lions shall eat straw, dust shall be the serpents meat. A child will live to be a hundred years old, but the sinner will die accursed for the 1000 years (obviously he is living outside the kingdom, and not in it) For nothing will hurt or destroy in God's holy mountain. (Kingdom) I'll have to look more into that.
Quote You have to look at these things 2Besse, and ask questions.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH, as it is in heaven. This is a prophecy. This prayer is more clear now.Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, yes, it means exactly that, God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven, but until the day of harvest the wheat has to grow up with the chaff.
God knows his own and they are sealed – even if they do become lost they will be brought back, Amen, Ezekiel 34:16:
I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment
So God's will is being done on earth as it is in heaven but until the harvest day it will not be complete.
These are only my opinions Journey – some may be right and some may be wrong – remember I am still studying Revelations. I just know that when Jesus comes then that is it, final, the end of all and the beginning of the new, and that is all I am trying to get you and Wakeup and Devo to see! That is all…
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 26 2012,22:53) Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 25 2012,22:14) Yes. Jesus will take his throne in Jerusalem. He will rule with the saints.
Journey, the Antichrist COULD ALSO take his throne in Jerusalem.See what I'm saying?
All the world will wonder after the beast… have you ever wondered what the word wonder means?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 26 2012,13:15) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2012,15:39) B.tharta. Can a muslem freely change religion without losing his head?
wakeup.
Yes, of course it happens every day
B,thartha.Can I ask a question,just for curiosity?
Since muslems dont eat blood; will they accept blood transfusion?wakeup.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 26 2012,13:15) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2012,15:39) B.tharta. Can a muslem freely change religion without losing his head?
wakeup.
Yes, of course it happens every day
Hi BD, not in muslim countries; and you know it!Are YOU being a deceptive muslim again
following the 'wrong god'(al-Lah) of
the false prophet(Muhammad)?יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)EDJ.
B,tharta is seeking just like you are.
He has not found what he is looking for,just like you are.You are still in bondage,bound by your believes,but dont know it. Remember; the truth will set you free.
But you dont want to be set free.You are comfortable in that position.
Because you can interpret scripture to anything you like.
Dont forget, the price you have to pay is not comfortable.
It is hot.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 27 2012,02:42) EDJ. B,tharta is seeking just like you are.
He has not found what he is looking for,just like you are.You are still in bondage,bound by your believes,but dont know it. Remember; the truth will set you free.
But you dont want to be set free.You are comfortable in that position.
Because you can interpret scripture to anything you like.
Dont forget, the price you have to pay is not comfortable.
It is hot.wakeup.
The pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.Tim
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 26 2012,21:10) Devolution, okay thanks, I will look at those verses you gave.
Hi 2Beesee.You obviously have been doing some reading,and thats good.
You can not jump the queue,mixing them all up as one scenario, all happening at the same time.
One step at the time.Starting from the trumpets:
First the 7 trumpets, then the coming, then his 1000yr kingdom on earth(satan in prison) to teach the jews only in the kingdom.Then the jews will teach all the gentiles outside the kingdom.
When the 1000yrs are expired, then satan will be let loose to draw all the non believers still, after all that teaching.
This is the war of gog and magog.(fought in the valley of hamongog). not megiddo,for its already happen 1000yrs past.(history).All them will be destroyed,and satan also.
Then the second resurrection, consisting ALL the dead from the past,judged by the books,this is the time when the sheep will be on the right, and the goats on the left.Now the sheep will be accepted in the kingdom.
The goats cast in the fire,where satan is.And now the earth itself and the heavens needs cleaning,it will be melted,and a new earth, and new heavens created.
Then Jesus will hand over his kingdom to God,and God himself will come down to earth.God, all in all.
——————————————————————–
With that doctrine saying that the 1000yrs is now ,just wont fit their big picture. WHERE WOULD YOU FIT IN isiah11:6–12.
65:17–25. and Zech.14:11—21 ? ? ?No one can fit those scriptures in their big picture, so they have to cheat.
By teaching that the 1000yrs is now,and also that gog and magog is the same battle of harmageddon.(not the same).These two are 1000yrs apart. one is fought in MEGIDO(north of jerusalem) and the other is fought in the valley of HAMONGOG.(east of jerusalem)
You'll be ok.just keep on searching with a pure heart.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 27 2012,02:42) EDJ. B,tharta is seeking just like you are.
He has not found what he is looking for,just like you are.You are still in bondage,bound by your believes,but dont know it. Remember; the truth will set you free.
But you dont want to be set free.You are comfortable in that position.
Because you can interpret scripture to anything you like.
Dont forget, the price you have to pay is not comfortable.
It is hot.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Yea, being in bondage is 'fun'.
What 'kinda-of-a' DUMB comment is that?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 27 2012,04:14) The pot calling the kettle black comes to mind. Tim
More like the black calling the kettle pot. Bass ackwards
Thanks Wakeup but I know what I believe and I know that when Jesus comes back it will be exactly as Jesus, Peter, and the other writers of the NT tell us it will be and I follow Jesus not man.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 23 2012,20:34) Quote (david @ Oct. 23 2012,17:02) Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be christ jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)Great! Now I have to spend several months figuring out the Quran.
Question BD:
1. Who is Allah believed or understood to be (in this verse)?
2. Is this verse just recounting a story from the bible? Or, is it something that you are supposed to believe?–meaning, do Muslims believe that Jesus is Gods anointed one?
3. If they do believe that Jesus is gods anointed one, do you simply understand this to mean that he is a prophet?
ALLAH is GOD(YHWH) d the Quran in english means “The Recital” so the stories are being recited by Gabriel to Muhammad they are not taken from the Bible but they are in the Bible as well because they are actual events.Jesus is the promised Messiah the Jews were waiting for he is Christ which was sent by God he is a spirit that proceeded from God Word from Him.
Jesus is not God and in Islam there is no equal to God nor any description that can fully capture His Glory it is understood in Islam that we can only know what we know about God through His known attributes.
The Quran explains that all the scriptures throughout all time are revelations and the Quran in a single book summaries all these teachings and stories with the addition of pointing out what Muhammad must relate to those who were around him in his day.
The Quran also explains that each prophet may have prohibited some things and allowed other things such as what should be eaten or the degree of punishment for certain things depending upon who he was sent to.
Many things are made clear in the Quran such as Adam repented which is why he did not die in the day he ate the fruit.
Then learnt adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #37)When fully understood the Bible and Quran click together like beautiful puzzle pieces such as reading Jonah and realizing that God was Most Merciful when sparing the town of nineveh although it was scheduled for destruction but they too repented.
Bodhitharta, so in the bible,John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.'
What would a Muslim understand that to mean?
What would YOU understand that to mean?Quote (2besee @ Oct. 27 2012,18:51) Wakeup,
If you don't mind me asking…. were you ever in a church or not? If so which denomination??
2Beesee.No. Because thats the place where corruption starts.
I have not been corrupted spiritually,I only go by the scriptures.
Why dont you answer my questions? how can one discus, if one does not answer questions?
wakeup.
Bd,
Islam denies that jesus was the SON of God, and also denies that Jesus was ever crucified or resurrected, true?Also if I remember right, Islam believes that the promised 'comforter' was Mohammad not the Holy Spirit?
Wakeup, I know and believe with all of my heart that when Jesus returns it will be the end. I also believe that there could be a false Messiah, possibly in Jerusalem. I am concerned at all of the beliefs going around today, including some of my family who believe the same thing as you do. All I can do is give my point of view, get a little bit frustrated, and then move on from that particular discussion, as I do with my family. Fair enough?
Hi Wakeup,
Yes on both accounts;
getting a truthful answers from a muslim is VERY difficult,
because they are taught, by Muhammad the false prophet, that 'lying and deception is OK'. (Ex.20:16)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Hi 2Besse
Thank you for taking the time to answer me.
Can we please look at my statement then your comment.
Quote Yes. Jesus will take his throne in Jerusalem. He will rule with the saints. Quote Journey, Jesus is on his throne in HEAVEN and then the new Jerusalem will come down from heaven onto the new earth and it will have no need for a temple because its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb (Rev 21) So just to make it clear, you are saying that Christ is already ruling? What about these scriptures?
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was RECEIVED UP INTO HEAVEN, and SAT on the RIGHT HAND OF GOD
Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, TILL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL?
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.Revelation 3:21 To HIM that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in MY THRONE, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in HIS THRONE.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Very I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, IN THE REGENERATION ..when the Son of man shall sit in the THRONE OF HIS GLORY, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Hebrews 11:16 BUT NOW they desire a BETTER COUNTRY, that is, an HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath PREPARED for them A CITY.
Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall SEND FORTH HIS ANGELS, and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND, and them which do iniquity.
If they are ruling from heaven now, then why would Christ need to gather out of his kingdom all things that offend? Is there sin in heaven now?
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, AFTER THAT he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen.
Acts 1:3 To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of god:
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.Jesus did not deny that Israel will be restored. He just told them it is not for them to know the times and the seasons, but he has revealed it unto us.
Isaiah 58:12 And THEY that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the FOUNDATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isaiah 61:4 And THEY shall build the old wastes, THEY shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, THE DESOLATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS.
Ezekiel 36:11 And I will MULTIPLY UPON YOU MAN AND BEAST; and THEY shall INCREASE AND BRING FRUIT: and I will settle you ATFER YOUR OLD ESTATES, and will do better unto you than AT YOUR BEGINNINGS: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
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