Islam

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:00)

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,09:13) Hi BD, Glad you're back! Your friend Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed

Hi BD,

Drop the book of fraud, it is getting you no-where!

Häl-läl  Ĕl-äh-ä
Ed J

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:11)

Quote (Stu @ July 26 2011,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 26 2011,09:04) Quote (Stu @ July 25 2011,01:24) Quote (theodorej @ July 24 2011,22:54) Quote (Stu @ July 23 2011,10:11) http://www.stuff.co.nz/world….-groups Islam: the religion of peace…and of starving to death. Stuart Stu ….. If you were to consider Islam as an ideology instead of a religion how would you attack it ….. Aren't religions all ideologies?  At a gross level there is little difference between communism, christianity and islam.  They each start off with great intentions for humanity but once you get to the detail it turns out that both are morally rotten to the core. Stuart How are you making any sense in your argument? How is Islam starving people and how is Atheism feeding people? The religion of Islam says to help those in need if someone claiming Islam does not do this how can it be the fault of Islam? The law in most places says that a person should not drive a vehicle being intoxicated so if someone drives intoxicated and kills someone in what way would those who made the law prohibiting an act be at fault for the act. You always seem to support logic and reason but your arguments are too many times devoid of those same ideals. Did you not read the article?  The islamists causing the starvation say that allowing in aid workers would promote an “un-islamic” way of life. So the only conclusion you can draw is that causing people to starve to death is islamic. Unless you would claim that they are not real muslims.  There appear to be a lot of them about, by your arguments.  Maybe you are the only real muslim in the whole world. Stuart One can only judge a system based on the stated provisional instructions of that system, The foundation of Islam is The Quran and in that foundational system you will find (5) But if at the time of division other relatives, or orphans or poor, are present, feed them out of the (property), and speak to them words of kindness and justice.   (  سورة النساء  , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #8) (12) “O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks.   (  سورة إبراهيم  , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #37) (14) “That they may witness the benefits (provided) for them, and celebrate the name of Allah, through the Days appointed, over the cattle which He has provided for them (for sacrifice): then eat ye thereof and feed the distressed ones in want.   (  سورة الحج  , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #28) Now in regards to your other question about it being Allah's will or plan, yes these are the Unbelievers who say this as it is written in the Quran (17) And when they are told, “Spend ye of (the bounties) with which Allah has provided you,” the Unbelievers say to those who believe: “Shall we then feed those whom, if Allah had so willed, He would have fed, (Himself)?- Ye are in nothing but manifest error.”   (  سورة يس  , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #47) You see the Quran points out the very error to show that starving others is not Islamic nor is it the plan of Allah except that it reveals the truth of who is in great error.

So maybe the young terrorists of Al-Shabaab might regret their difficulties with Ya Sin, but all those muslims starving to death because of the ideals of these islamist thugs could have decided that this sura overrides the ones about unbelievers and feeding:

Sura 47:35 So do not falter and cry out for peace when ye (will be) the uppermost, and Allah is with you, and He will not grudge (the reward of) your actions.

Maybe once their brand of Sharia Law dominates Somalia they might let the food in to feed those who survived the famine.

Didn't mention a single hadith there, BD.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:11)

celebrate the name of Allah

Hi BD,

What is the name of Allah?

עד (Joshua 22:34)

[TimothyVI]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:19)

Actually you do not understand what predestination means but as an example think of weights and measures and how understanding such gives one the ability of predetermining events in the physical world such as knowing that to travel a distance takes a certain amount of time likewise the scales of justice can be tipped and lead one to Hell.

What does this have to do with predestination?
I was referring to the fact that qadar meant that everything happens according to the will of Allah, and you obviously do not believe the words written in your own quran. Does the fact that it was predestined mean that Allah did not will it?

From http://www.islam-qa.com.
Qadar means that Allaah has decreed everything that happens in the universe.
Belief in al-Qadar includes four things, one of which is, the belief that whatever happens only happens by the will of Allaah – whether that has to do with His actions or the actions of created beings.
Allaah says concerning His actions (interpretation of the meaning):
“And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses”
[al-Qasas 28:68]
“and Allaah does what He wills”
[Ibraaheem 14:27]
“He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He wills”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:6]

Tim

[TimothyVI]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:19)

I read the Quran and what horror have you ascribed to me unjustly and for that matter the hundreds of millions who have done no more harm than you in life, it is logical to view all as some or some as all it violates the law of identity.

Hi Bod,

I am not sure I even understand what you are saying here.

Tim

[Stu]

I think he is saying he is the only True Muslim™.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ July 27 2011,23:23)

I think he is saying he is the only True Muslim™. Stuart

HA Ha ha ha!!!!

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 27 2011,18:16)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:11) Quote (Stu @ July 26 2011,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 26 2011,09:04) Quote (Stu @ July 25 2011,01:24) Quote (theodorej @ July 24 2011,22:54) Quote (Stu @ July 23 2011,10:11) http://www.stuff.co.nz/world….-groups Islam: the religion of peace…and of starving to death. Stuart Stu ….. If you were to consider Islam as an ideology instead of a religion how would you attack it ….. Aren't religions all ideologies?  At a gross level there is little difference between communism, christianity and islam.  They each start off with great intentions for humanity but once you get to the detail it turns out that both are morally rotten to the core. Stuart How are you making any sense in your argument? How is Islam starving people and how is Atheism feeding people? The religion of Islam says to help those in need if someone claiming Islam does not do this how can it be the fault of Islam? The law in most places says that a person should not drive a vehicle being intoxicated so if someone drives intoxicated and kills someone in what way would those who made the law prohibiting an act be at fault for the act. You always seem to support logic and reason but your arguments are too many times devoid of those same ideals. Did you not read the article?  The islamists causing the starvation say that allowing in aid workers would promote an “un-islamic” way of life. So the only conclusion you can draw is that causing people to starve to death is islamic. Unless you would claim that they are not real muslims.  There appear to be a lot of them about, by your arguments.  Maybe you are the only real muslim in the whole world. Stuart One can only judge a system based on the stated provisional instructions of that system, The foundation of Islam is The Quran and in that foundational system you will find (5) But if at the time of division other relatives, or orphans or poor, are present, feed them out of the (property), and speak to them words of kindness and justice.   (  سورة النساء  , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #8) (12) “O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks.   (  سورة إبراهيم  , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #37) (14) “That they may witness the benefits (provided) for them, and celebrate the name of Allah, through the Days appointed, over the cattle which He has provided for them (for sacrifice): then eat ye thereof and feed the distressed ones in want.   (  سورة الحج  , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #28) Now in regards to your other question about it being Allah's will or plan, yes these are the Unbelievers who say this as it is written in the Quran (17) And when they are told, “Spend ye of (the bounties) with which Allah has provided you,” the Unbelievers say to those who believe: “Shall we then feed those whom, if Allah had so willed, He would have fed, (Himself)?- Ye are in nothing but manifest error.”   (  سورة يس  , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #47) You see the Quran points out the very error to show that starving others is not Islamic nor is it the plan of Allah except that it reveals the truth of who is in great error. So maybe the young terrorists of Al-Shabaab might regret their difficulties with Ya Sin, but all those muslims starving to death because of the ideals of these islamist thugs could have decided that this sura overrides the ones about unbelievers and feeding: Sura 47:35 So do not falter and cry out for peace when ye (will be) the uppermost, and Allah is with you, and He will not grudge (the reward of) your actions. Maybe once their brand of Sharia Law dominates Somalia they might let the food in to feed those who survived the famine. Didn't mention a single hadith there, BD. Stuart

You have a drastic misunderstanding about Islam and Sharia law. There is a huge difference between the foundations of Law and religion and how those things are altered by “group think” for instance in the U.S. the foundation of our laws were biblical and now they have went as far as allowing Gay Marriage and making adultery a noncriminal offense and this is a result of “group think” not what the bible portrays as God's will or Sharia.

Muhammad said that the Quran is the ultimate source of truth and that even if he said something contrary to it to believe in the Quran over anything he could ever say

[bodhitharta]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 27 2011,23:18)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:19) I read the Quran and what horror have you ascribed to me unjustly and for that matter the hundreds of millions who have done no more harm than you in life, it is logical to view all as some or some as all it violates the law of identity. Hi Bod, I am not sure I even understand what you are saying here. Tim

I meant to say illogical not logical.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,21:48)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:11) celebrate the name of Allah Hi BD, What is the name of Allah? עד (Joshua 22:34)

Allah means The God, why did Jesus say that the name of The God should be Hallowed? Have you not noticed Jesus never even one single time uses YHVH but yet some use it as a common thing.

HaShem is the Hebrew word which pious Jews use instead of the yod-hey-vav-hey (יהוה – YHVH [1]) name, in casual conversations, and literally means The Name.

So Jesus being righteous does not say YHVH as the Name is Hallowed and so to say ALLAH/The God is more Appropriate and respectful.

[Ed J]

Hi BD,

The 'book of fraud' is not Appropriate and disrespectful.
Ĕl-äh-ä is how you say “God” in Aramaic.

Psalms 45:17 I will make thy name (יהוה) YÄ-hä-vā) to be remembered
in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

Perhaps you need to go teach muslims what God's name is; aye?

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2011,05:02)

Hi BD, The 'book of fraud' is not Appropriate and disrespectful. Ĕl-äh-ä is how you say “God” in Aramaic. Psalms 45:17 I will make thy name (יהוה) YÄ-hä-vā) to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever. Perhaps you need to go teach muslims what God's name is; aye? Ed J

Aren't languages different? So when did Jesus say YHVH? Can you show me the scripture?

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,04:07)

You have a drastic misunderstanding about Islam and Sharia law. There is a huge difference between the foundations of Law and religion and how those things are altered by “group think” for instance in the U.S. the foundation of our laws were biblical and now they have went as far as allowing Gay Marriage and making adultery a noncriminal offense and this is a result of “group think” not what the bible portrays as God's will or Sharia. Muhammad said that the Quran is the ultimate source of truth and that even if he said something contrary to it to believe in the Quran over anything he could ever say

Please respond to the point. It is a sura that tells muslims not to sue for peace when they think they might be winning a war for their Imaginary Friend allah. That is completely consistent with the aims of the islamic terrorists in Somalia, which is establishment of Sharia Law, and consistent with the idea that they would prevent the incursion of influences they consider should be resisted in the name of that non-existent deity, even if it means the people cannot expect peace…

…or food.

By the way, you appear to have a drastic misunderstanding about the foundation of the laws of the US.

Stuart

[shimmer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,05:14)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,21:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2011,12:11) celebrate the name of Allah Hi BD, What is the name of Allah? עד (Joshua 22:34) Allah means The God, why did Jesus say that the name of The God should be Hallowed? Have you not noticed Jesus never even one single time uses YHVH but yet some use it as a common thing. HaShem is the Hebrew word which pious Jews use instead of the yod-hey-vav-hey (יהוה – YHVH [1]) name, in casual conversations, and literally means The Name. So Jesus being righteous does not say YHVH as the Name is Hallowed and so to say ALLAH/The God is more Appropriate and respectful.

Hi Bod. Jesus repeatedly used the title of Father or Our Father. Is the title Father of Our Father in the Quran Bod?

[princess]

Quote (Stu @ July 27 2011,23:23)

I think he is saying he is the only True Muslim™. Stuart

I have heard this before, ones stating the same thing.

Don't be too hasty there Prince Stuart, there are ones calling themselves Christians who cover themselves in blood, literally.

Not saying that BD wouldn't throw stones at you………

[Stu]

No haste I think. I have suggested this to BD every time he claims that the only basis for islam is the koran.

He is in the minority, and his answers to Tim's questions suggest to me he could be the only muslim that believes these things. To appear reasonable in your beliefs as a muslim you do need to discard the hadiths, there is where I agree. But to be reasonable in your beliefs as a human being you would have to discard the koran too. It is dangerous because it is internally contradictory and therefore justifies violence for those who interpret it that way.

Do gods inspire books containing statements of their “will” that could be taken in so many different ways? So much for greatness: the communication is lousy.

Of course the reality is that whenever Mo came across a case where his next military action in Arabia needed to contradict what he had already dictated to his scribes, he would disappear inside his tent and hey presto come up with a new “inspired” sura that would justify his next atrocity.

Religion of peace, my backside.

Stuart

[princess]

I had seen a commentary of the true islam, and tis nothing like what is shown today. I do agree with you on the double edge sword though, it seems religions always have some sort of loophole. You have either two choices, and no matter which one you choose your alright in your decision, due to it is gods will, a no fault CYA.

Prince Stuart, again, I will share, my son is very familiar with the look of h.n., as he walks in and finds me laughing his words are Stuart? Your last comment was the cause. Thank you Prince, truly today was a day that needed to end in laughter.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,09:20)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,04:07) You have a drastic misunderstanding about Islam and Sharia law. There is a huge difference between the foundations of Law and religion and how those things are altered by “group think” for instance in the U.S. the foundation of our laws were biblical and now they have went as far as allowing Gay Marriage and making adultery a noncriminal offense and this is a result of “group think” not what the bible portrays as God's will or Sharia. Muhammad said that the Quran is the ultimate source of truth and that even if he said something contrary to it to believe in the Quran over anything he could ever say Please respond to the point.  It is a sura that tells muslims not to sue for peace when they think they might be winning a war for their Imaginary Friend allah.  That is completely consistent with the aims of the islamic terrorists in Somalia, which is establishment of Sharia Law, and consistent with the idea that they would prevent the incursion of influences they consider should be resisted in the name of that non-existent deity, even if it means the people cannot expect peace… …or food. By the way, you appear to have a drastic misunderstanding about the foundation of the laws of the US. Stuart

the pledge of allegiance says “ONE NATION UNDER GOD” that shows direct influence of religion

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,12:00)

No haste I think.  I have suggested this to BD every time he claims that the only basis for islam is the koran. He is in the minority, and his answers to Tim's questions suggest to me he could be the only muslim that believes these things.  To appear reasonable in your beliefs as a muslim you do need to discard the hadiths, there is where I agree.  But to be reasonable in your beliefs as a human being you would have to discard the koran too.  It is dangerous because it is internally contradictory and therefore justifies violence for those who interpret it that way. Do gods inspire books containing statements of their “will” that could be taken in so many different ways?  So much for greatness: the communication is lousy. Of course the reality is that whenever Mo came across a case where his next military action in Arabia needed to contradict what he had already dictated to his scribes, he would disappear inside his tent and hey presto come up with a new “inspired” sura that would justify his next atrocity. Religion of peace, my backside. Stuart

This makes no sense because there are millions upon millions who believe as I do, that the Quran is the pure guidance.

Anyone can misinterpret anything based upon their own desires. You wish that there was no religion someone can interpret that to mean we should kill all those that are religious but hatreds have more to do with a disease of the heart and soul.

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,15:03)

Quote (Stu @ July 28 2011,09:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,04:07) You have a drastic misunderstanding about Islam and Sharia law. There is a huge difference between the foundations of Law and religion and how those things are altered by “group think” for instance in the U.S. the foundation of our laws were biblical and now they have went as far as allowing Gay Marriage and making adultery a noncriminal offense and this is a result of “group think” not what the bible portrays as God's will or Sharia. Muhammad said that the Quran is the ultimate source of truth and that even if he said something contrary to it to believe in the Quran over anything he could ever say Please respond to the point.  It is a sura that tells muslims not to sue for peace when they think they might be winning a war for their Imaginary Friend allah.  That is completely consistent with the aims of the islamic terrorists in Somalia, which is establishment of Sharia Law, and consistent with the idea that they would prevent the incursion of influences they consider should be resisted in the name of that non-existent deity, even if it means the people cannot expect peace… …or food. By the way, you appear to have a drastic misunderstanding about the foundation of the laws of the US. Stuart the pledge of allegiance says “ONE NATION UNDER GOD” that shows direct influence of religion

The words “under god” were forced into your Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 by religious zealots.

But how is the Pledge relevant to what you claimed?

Stuart

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