Islam

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2010,10:07)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,02:45) Actually, I didn't say these were my personal beliefs. Read the Post topic. The Quran doesn't have any of these things written in it so you are wrong in your accusation however the reason it was posted was to show that there are similarities. the reason I was put in the skeptics area was simply because you were being unfair and the votes prove that, especially when you can have ED run around talking about Satan was part of the “Godhead” and that Jesus had to come here to purge his evil and yet to you he is “a real believer” TT and ED says that Jesus has already returned and you call them “real believers” I have already told you of your massive display of hypocrisy. Anyway to say that Jesus will return as a king with his angels, does that mean he will not do what is written in the post? Do you actually know step by step what will happen when Jesus returns? “Islamic end time predictions” OK. Are you saying that Islam could be wrong?

Yes, Because it is not “Islam” like an across the board agreement in these predictions or there interpretation. I only stand completely behind what is in the Quran and what is in the Bible.

For instance I feel no contradiction going from one to the other because I view them in a forward context.

I understand perfectly that the Bible says that Jesus was Killed and Crucified and so when the Quran says he was not killed or crucified but it appeared to them as if it occured to me I need to look at the possibility and themn when I am honest and really look and realize that over 3 times the scripture.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Matthew 13:13-15

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-13

Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Acts 28:25-27

Isaiah 6:9 (New King James Version)
9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people:

‘ Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’

This is sufficient biblical evidence to explain to me that it was perceived that Jesus was killed and crucified but in fact was not.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 11 2010,10:57)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,09:37) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 11 2010,07:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,02:45) the reason I was put in the skeptics area was simply because you were being unfair and the votes prove that, especially (1)when you can have ED run around talking about Satan was part of the “Godhead” and (2)that Jesus had to come here to purge his evil and yet to you he is “a real believer” TT and (3)ED says that Jesus has already returned and you call them “real believers” 4) I have already told you of your massive display of hypocrisy. Hi BD,     Why are you putting 'spin' on my words? 1) God created Lucifer and when his 'evil' way was exposed, God had to put him(called satan) OUT!     Your 'antichrist'(1John 2:22) way has been “Exposed” as well, and just like Lucifer,     and that is WHY you had to be removed from the believers at [Heaven.net]. 2) Jesus came to “Purge” you of 'your sin'(rebellion against YHVH), which is called the “Gospel”, which you continue to reject! 3) Why are you trying to make this issue (of Jesus returning (in Spirit form) at “Pentecost”) into a non-Believer issue?     The 'book of fraud'=114(quran) has 'many' miss-represented things, this is one of “MANY” many, many LIES of 'satan'!     You (BD) CANNOT have your own “Personal” Pentecost(John 14:23) until you “FIRST accept “The Passover” (John 3:16)! 4) The 'hypocrisy' you see in others: IS REALLY 'your own',     which you see as your own reflection in others! (Psalm 18:25-27 / Matt.7:1-5) Ed J You said Satan was part of the “GODHEAD” whatever you think that means. Was or is Satan a part of the “Godhead”? What is the Godhead? You ask me why am I trying to make it an issue that you have said that Jesus has alreay returned and is not coming back? You can't be serious. Or are you saying he'll be coming back for the third time? But if you count spiritual times he has returned wouldn't you have to count his visit to Paul and his visit to John on the Island of Patmos? Hi BD, Are you now ready to continue our bible study? Ed J

I can only study with you if you stop the constant slander of God's prophets and revelations.

Can you do that?

Unless you can tell me with certainty that The HOLY SPIRIT told you to say those things.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,12:29)

Yes, Because it is not “Islam” like an across the board agreement in these predictions or there interpretation. I only stand completely behind what is in the Quran and what is in the Bible.

That should in your mind, open the possibility that Islam's belief that the Quran is scripture is wrong.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2010,14:01)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,12:29) Yes, Because it is not “Islam” like an across the board agreement in these predictions or there interpretation. I only stand completely behind what is in the Quran and what is in the Bible. That should in your mind, open the possibility that Islam's belief that the Quran is scripture is wrong.

I don't understand what you mean, can you explain?

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11

But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam.

[Proclaimer]

It is easy to preach another Jesus. A person just needs to make up a person and call that person Jesus and then make any claim they want, because they made him up. But of course, that doesn't make it right.

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam.

He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2010,15:25)

It is easy to preach another Jesus. A person just needs to make up a person and call that person Jesus and then make any claim they want, because they made him up. But of course, that doesn't make it right. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted,you put up with it easily enough.

Notice the verse you gave says

“you put up with it easily enough.” notice this verse was not in a future context but a past or even present context.

And when Paul says “we preached” you do understand that his disagreement was with other Jews that believed the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law not with some future revelation, right?

What I'm saying can easily be proven:

Certain men from Jerusalem travel to Antioch and begin teaching that certain believers (Gentiles) must be circumcised in order to receive salvation (Acts 15:1, 5). After Paul and Barnabas discuss and dispute this teaching with those promoting it, they and other church members go to Jerusalem to confer about the issue with the apostles and elders (Acts 15:2, Galatians 2:1-2).

But even more importantly we know that in the Old Testament God said circumcision was an everlasting covenant never to end and yet Paul is saying it has ended. The point is you cannot take context backwards and apply it anywhere you choose. Paul was speaking to those he evangelized to.

Now Jesus said if anyone says that they saw him to not believe them and yet you do not apply that to Paul who says he saw Jesus on the road to damascus now the point is not whether it is true or false the point is you apply different rules to similar circumstances.

[bodhitharta]

Matthew 24:23 (New King James Version)
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.

But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
Acts 9:26-28

Paul makes one thing clear:

He certainly when talking about another Jesus or Gospel he was referring to people of his day:

And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),
Galatians 2:3-5

2 Corinthians 11:12-14 (New King James Version)
12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Remember he is talking about Apostles of Christ not Prophets of God.

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,19:07)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam. He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive.

Bod, Islam makes us stronger, it does, but I would get confused if I had to try and put the bible together with the Quran, its confusing enough as it is, Rather than trying to figure it all out, I now rely on just quietly trying to listen to what God says and puts into my heart through each day. I wait on the Lord, and whatever will be, I look forward to a time when things are different, and whenever I fear I know that whatever love will save us cause were all only human,

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,22:03)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,19:07) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam. He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive. Bod, Islam makes us stronger, it does, but I would get confused if I had to try and put the bible together with the Quran, its confusing enough as it is, Rather than trying to figure it all out, I now rely on just quietly trying to listen to what God says and puts into my heart through each day. I wait on the Lord, and whatever will be, I look forward to a time when things are different, and whenever I fear I know that whatever love will save us cause were all only human,

There really is no need to be confused at all if you don't want to read and study the Quran that is fine if you are not speaking against it or claiming that it is not from God out of ignorance like many people do.

Why would anyone simply discount something without even understanding what it is they deny. Today so many people are trying to go it alone and I really did think it was okay for people to try to figure it out by themselves but now I realize that most need guidance and instruction.

In my own personal life there have been two people that I have focused on the most but in 2 different ways. One I actually teach them and they study and the other they study on their own and then after formulating all types of ideas(some of them bizarre) I have to go and clean up all the bad stuff they have accumalated. I now realize that the second person should be treated like the first person it is too dangerous to let people just wing it.

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 12 2010,05:06)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,22:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,19:07) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam. He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive. Bod, Islam makes us stronger, it does, but I would get confused if I had to try and put the bible together with the Quran, its confusing enough as it is, Rather than trying to figure it all out, I now rely on just quietly trying to listen to what God says and puts into my heart through each day. I wait on the Lord, and whatever will be, I look forward to a time when things are different, and whenever I fear I know that whatever love will save us cause were all only human, There really is no need to be confused at all if you don't want to read and study the Quran that is fine if you are not speaking against it or claiming that it is not from God out of ignorance like many people do. Why would anyone simply discount something without even understanding what it is they deny. Today so many people are trying to go it alone and I really did think it was okay for people to try to figure it out by themselves but now I realize that most need guidance and instruction. In my own personal life there have been two people that I have focused on the most but in 2 different ways. One I actually teach them and they study and the other they study on their own and then after formulating all types of ideas(some of them bizarre) I have to go and clean up all the bad stuff they have accumalated. I now realize that the second person should be treated like the first person it is too dangerous to let people just wing it.

I think it is natural to want someone to teach us, but theres so many opinions out there, thats the problem.

If I listened to the first people who ever taught me, I would believe that Jesus is God and there is only Him, and that hell is eternal torment for any who dont accept Him into their heart (with no hope of escape but forever screaming in pain).

see?

Many people become 'religeous monks' and remove themselves from the world, I think Enoch became like that, He walked with God.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 12 2010,08:43)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 12 2010,05:06) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,22:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,19:07) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam. He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive. Bod, Islam makes us stronger, it does, but I would get confused if I had to try and put the bible together with the Quran, its confusing enough as it is, Rather than trying to figure it all out, I now rely on just quietly trying to listen to what God says and puts into my heart through each day. I wait on the Lord, and whatever will be, I look forward to a time when things are different, and whenever I fear I know that whatever love will save us cause were all only human, There really is no need to be confused at all if you don't want to read and study the Quran that is fine if you are not speaking against it or claiming that it is not from God out of ignorance like many people do. Why would anyone simply discount something without even understanding what it is they deny. Today so many people are trying to go it alone and I really did think it was okay for people to try to figure it out by themselves but now I realize that most need guidance and instruction. In my own personal life there have been two people that I have focused on the most but in 2 different ways. One I actually teach them and they study and the other they study on their own and then after formulating all types of ideas(some of them bizarre) I have to go and clean up all the bad stuff they have accumalated. I now realize that the second person should be treated like the first person it is too dangerous to let people just wing it. I think it is natural to want someone to teach us, but theres so many opinions out there, thats the problem. If I listened to the first people who ever taught me, I would believe that Jesus is God and there is only Him, and that hell is eternal torment for any who dont accept Him into their heart (with no hope of escape but forever screaming in pain). see? Many people become 'religeous monks' and remove themselves from the world, I think Enoch became like that, He walked with God.

There is a way to be like a monk and be independent but it requires immersing oneself in the love of God totally and not being concerned with even the path of others. Otherwise a teacher is needed

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22)

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11

1st Corintians 15:36;
You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

John 12:24;
Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
“Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 12 2010,11:10)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 12 2010,08:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 12 2010,05:06) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,22:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,19:07) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam. He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive. Bod, Islam makes us stronger, it does, but I would get confused if I had to try and put the bible together with the Quran, its confusing enough as it is, Rather than trying to figure it all out, I now rely on just quietly trying to listen to what God says and puts into my heart through each day. I wait on the Lord, and whatever will be, I look forward to a time when things are different, and whenever I fear I know that whatever love will save us cause were all only human, There really is no need to be confused at all if you don't want to read and study the Quran that is fine if you are not speaking against it or claiming that it is not from God out of ignorance like many people do. Why would anyone simply discount something without even understanding what it is they deny. Today so many people are trying to go it alone and I really did think it was okay for people to try to figure it out by themselves but now I realize that most need guidance and instruction. In my own personal life there have been two people that I have focused on the most but in 2 different ways. One I actually teach them and they study and the other they study on their own and then after formulating all types of ideas(some of them bizarre) I have to go and clean up all the bad stuff they have accumalated. I now realize that the second person should be treated like the first person it is too dangerous to let people just wing it. I think it is natural to want someone to teach us, but theres so many opinions out there, thats the problem. If I listened to the first people who ever taught me, I would believe that Jesus is God and there is only Him, and that hell is eternal torment for any who dont accept Him into their heart (with no hope of escape but forever screaming in pain). see? Many people become 'religeous monks' and remove themselves from the world, I think Enoch became like that, He walked with God. There is a way to be like a monk and be independent but it requires immersing oneself in the love of God totally and not being concerned with even the path of others. Otherwise a teacher is needed

yeah ok so how is anyone supposed to know who that teacher/s may be?

I think the safest thing is to become a monk!

[karmarie]

One more thing! Most Christians believe there will be a thousand years of peace on the earth once Jesus returns but what would you make of this:
(copied and pasted from believers place )
——————————

When Jesus returns all evil will be destroyed. That hasnt happened yet, though it did in small part with Jerusalem it hasnt happened to the rest of the world yet. Surely that is the day when he returns? See:

2 Peter 3;

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised?

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

Adventists believe exactly what that says but iv found no-one else who does. They all try to say its after the millenium? (after Jesus has returned)

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 12 2010,09:11)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 1st Corintians 15:36; You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. John 12:24; Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. “Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.

The sower soweth the word.
Mark 4:13-15

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 12 2010,09:17)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 12 2010,11:10) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 12 2010,08:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 12 2010,05:06) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,22:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,19:07) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 11 2010,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,14:22) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 10 2010,12:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 10 2010,12:27)     Jesus will return, live humbly and modestly as a judge among the muslims, and raise a family.   Hi Bod I read these things years ago but one thing that I couldnt understand; How could Jesus have a Family and then Die? (which is what it said on most sites) The Bible says He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that He lives forever ? Rev 1-17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! It doesnt make sense with what the Bible says. It makes sense if in fact Jesus never died in the first place and then returns. If Jesus is to be pre-eminent in all things he would have to have lived the longest life. I believe that is why it is mentioned in the Bible how long the first people lived reaching Ages of almost 1000 years old and these were people who sinned so Jesus having not sinned will return over 2000 years old. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:9-11 But He has already died – according to the Bible, so that just doesnt make sense! He comes back and dies again, sorry, it is once again making Him lesser than He is! And it was I think that exact point which made me walk away from Islam. He hasn't already died, he was taken up to heaven alive. Bod, Islam makes us stronger, it does, but I would get confused if I had to try and put the bible together with the Quran, its confusing enough as it is, Rather than trying to figure it all out, I now rely on just quietly trying to listen to what God says and puts into my heart through each day. I wait on the Lord, and whatever will be, I look forward to a time when things are different, and whenever I fear I know that whatever love will save us cause were all only human, There really is no need to be confused at all if you don't want to read and study the Quran that is fine if you are not speaking against it or claiming that it is not from God out of ignorance like many people do. Why would anyone simply discount something without even understanding what it is they deny. Today so many people are trying to go it alone and I really did think it was okay for people to try to figure it out by themselves but now I realize that most need guidance and instruction. In my own personal life there have been two people that I have focused on the most but in 2 different ways. One I actually teach them and they study and the other they study on their own and then after formulating all types of ideas(some of them bizarre) I have to go and clean up all the bad stuff they have accumalated. I now realize that the second person should be treated like the first person it is too dangerous to let people just wing it. I think it is natural to want someone to teach us, but theres so many opinions out there, thats the problem. If I listened to the first people who ever taught me, I would believe that Jesus is God and there is only Him, and that hell is eternal torment for any who dont accept Him into their heart (with no hope of escape but forever screaming in pain). see? Many people become 'religeous monks' and remove themselves from the world, I think Enoch became like that, He walked with God. There is a way to be like a monk and be independent but it requires immersing oneself in the love of God totally and not being concerned with even the path of others. Otherwise a teacher is needed yeah ok so how is anyone supposed to know who that teacher/s may be? I think the safest thing is to become a monk!

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yeah ok so how is anyone supposed to know who that teacher/s may be?

If one is ready to be taught then it shouldn't be a problem according to the purity of their heart shall they also learn. Where there is a teacher there is attraction according to what should be learned.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,17:21)

Notice the verse you gave says “you put up with it easily enough.” notice this verse was not in a future context but a past or even present context.

That doesn't matter because the point I am making is that you or anyone can preach another Jesus. And lets face it, we already both know that this is possible without having to read the bible.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 12 2010,11:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 11 2010,17:21) Notice the verse you gave says “you put up with it easily enough.” notice this verse was not in a future context but a past or even present context. That doesn't matter because the point I am making is that you or anyone can preach another Jesus. And lets face it, we already both know that this is possible without having to read the bible.

While I agree with you that preaching another Jesus can be done it doesn't mean that in the case of Islam or the Quran that it has been done.

In-fact It preaches the exact same Jesus born of a virgin and conceived by the power of God.

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