Islam

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,07:24)

NOT APPLICABLE; HAGAR WAS NOT GIVEN TO MARRY ABRAHAM.SHE WAS STILL HIS SERVANT,AFTER ISMAIL'S
BIRTH. SHE ALSO WAS SEND OFF WITHOUT ANY DIVORCE.

Genesis 16:3
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

August 18, 2013 at 9:32 pm#355544

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,07:57)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,07:24)

NOT APPLICABLE; HAGAR WAS NOT GIVEN TO MARRY ABRAHAM.SHE WAS STILL HIS SERVANT,AFTER ISMAIL'S
BIRTH. SHE ALSO WAS SEND OFF WITHOUT ANY DIVORCE.

Genesis 16:3
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Boditharta.

That is a good scripture;but lets compare:

Genesis 16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, **thy *maid* is in thy hand**; *do to her as it pleaseth thee*. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, *she fled from her face*.

Genesis 16:7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

Genesis 16:8 And he said, Hagar, **Sarai's maid**, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of **my mistress Sarai**.

Genesis 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to **thy mistress**, and **submit thyself under her hands**.

wakeup.

August 19, 2013 at 4:24 am#355581

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,08:32)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,07:57)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,07:24)

NOT APPLICABLE; HAGAR WAS NOT GIVEN TO MARRY ABRAHAM.SHE WAS STILL HIS SERVANT,AFTER ISMAIL'S
BIRTH. SHE ALSO WAS SEND OFF WITHOUT ANY DIVORCE.

Genesis 16:3
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Boditharta.

That is a good scripture;but lets compare:

Genesis 16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, **thy *maid* is in thy hand**; *do to her as it pleaseth thee*. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, *she fled from her face*.

Genesis 16:7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

Genesis 16:8 And he said, Hagar, **Sarai's maid**, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of **my mistress Sarai**.

Genesis 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to **thy mistress**, and **submit thyself under her hands**.

wakeup.

How does this in any way take away the fact that Hagar was Abraham's wife?

August 19, 2013 at 5:12 am#355590

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,15:24)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,08:32)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,07:57)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,07:24)

NOT APPLICABLE; HAGAR WAS NOT GIVEN TO MARRY ABRAHAM.SHE WAS STILL HIS SERVANT,AFTER ISMAIL'S
BIRTH. SHE ALSO WAS SEND OFF WITHOUT ANY DIVORCE.

Genesis 16:3
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Boditharta.

That is a good scripture;but lets compare:

Genesis 16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, **thy *maid* is in thy hand**; *do to her as it pleaseth thee*. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, *she fled from her face*.

Genesis 16:7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

Genesis 16:8 And he said, Hagar, **Sarai's maid**, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of **my mistress Sarai**.

Genesis 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to **thy mistress**, and **submit thyself under her hands**.

wakeup.

How does this in any way take away the fact that Hagar was Abraham's wife?

Hi BD,

This was before GOD said not to multiply wives. (see Deut 17:17)
It seems that you are always trying to justify YOUR false prophet.

August 19, 2013 at 5:19 am#355591

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,16:12)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,15:24)

How does this in any way take away the fact that Hagar was Abraham's wife?

Hi BD,

This was before GOD said not to multiply wives. (see Deut 17:17)
It seems that you are always trying to justify YOUR false prophet.

The Bible describes the false prophet Muhammad in the book of Revelations.
And specially describes the quran in Gal 1:8 – 2Cor 11:14-15 – Rev 13:13.

August 19, 2013 at 5:27 am#355592

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,16:19)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,16:12)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,15:24)

How does this in any way take away the fact that Hagar was Abraham's wife?

Hi BD,

This was before GOD said not to multiply wives. (see Deut 17:17)
It seems that you are always trying to justify YOUR false prophet.

The Bible describes the false prophet Muhammad in the book of Revelations.
And specially describes the quran in Gal 1:8 – 2Cor 11:14-15 – Rev 13:13.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This would automatically disqualify Muhammad, unless you can showme ONE SHRED of EVIDENCE of someone worshiping an image of Muhammad which is FORBIDDEN in ISLAM.

We do know that Christians Worship images of what they believe is Christ but that doesn't occur in Islam

August 19, 2013 at 6:27 am#355598

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2013,16:27)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,16:19)

The Bible describes the false prophet Muhammad in the book of Revelations.
And specially describes the quran in Gal 1:8 – 2Cor 11:14-15 – Rev 13:13.

This would automatically disqualify Muhammad, unless you can showme ONE SHRED of EVIDENCE of someone worshiping an image of Muhammad which is FORBIDDEN in ISLAM.

We do know that Christians Worship images of what they believe is Christ but that doesn't occur in Islam

Hi BD,

“The image” that the false prophet Muhammad
is causing muslims to worship is “World Conquest.”

Do you deny that the goal of islam is world conquest?
Rev.13:1-3 depicts the seven previous attempts at this.

August 19, 2013 at 6:27 am#355599

Participant

“And there are seven kings (Empires more specifically): five are fallen, and one is,
and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and goeth into perdition (or in more term shall go into everlasting destruction).” (Revelation 17:10-11)

1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo-Persia
5. Greece (five are fallen) <– Past
6. Roman (one is – John's time) <– Present
7. Ottoman >>>> 8. Muhammadin islam <– Future

Ed (witness)

August 19, 2013 at 6:28 am#355600

Participant

Rev 17:7-18

I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The victory of the Lamb

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Ed (witness)

August 19, 2013 at 6:30 am#355601

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,17:28)

Rev 17:7-18

The victory of the Lamb

Ed (witness)

The city of Mecca

Mecca is a city in the South West part of the present Saudi Arabia, not far away from the Red sea. Centuries before the rise of Islam, Mecca was serving as the main religious, cultural and commercial center for all of the Arabic tribes. An amazing detail about the city is that it is surrounded by seven hills.

Mecca is also the city which gave birth to Muhammad (the strongest antichrist ever to appear throughout the last 2000 years) and to his religion of Islam. It became the capital of the Islamic empire and the official residency of Allah. Therefore, and since then, Mecca gained the title of being called “almadina almukarrama” (the bountiful/honored city). Muslims' prayers are required to be directed toward the city and its shrine of “Ka'ba.” It is also their duty and one of their five pillars of faith to visit the city at least once in their lifetime. Non-Muslims are strictly forbidden to touch the (holy) soil of Mecca. If someone is caught, he will definitely be put to death. (Link)

August 19, 2013 at 7:46 am#355605

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,17:30)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,17:28)

Rev 17:7-18

The victory of the Lamb

Ed (witness)

The city of Mecca

EDJ.

You said **Mecca is the woman**.
This woman is sitting on the beast with the 7heads.
You also said that the first head was Egypt.

Questions:
1.Was Mecca sitting on the first head *Egypt*?
2.Was Mecca sitting on the second head,*Medo Persia*?
3.Was Mecca sitting on the third head,*Greece*?
4.Was Mecca sitting on the fourth head,*Rome*?
5.Is mecca sitting on todays empire?

btw: mountains are not hills.

wakeup.

August 19, 2013 at 8:04 am#355607

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,18:46)

EDJ.

You said **Mecca is the woman**.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

I DID NOT SAY THAT, and you prove over and over that YOU do not pay attention.
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (Rev 17:9)

August 19, 2013 at 8:04 am#355608

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,18:46)

EDJ.

btw: mountains are not hills.

wakeup.

Oh No?

“They that trust in the LORD shall be as Mount Zion,
which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.” (Psalms 125:1)

“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.” (Psalms 2:6)
Do you recant, or is your zeal to be right stronger than you ability to speak truth?

Ed (witness)

August 19, 2013 at 11:59 am#355635

Spock

Participant

The Ka'ba fetish:

(1051.1) 95:7.3 Here and there throughout Arabia were families and clans that held on to the hazy idea of the one God. Such groups treasured the traditions of Melchizedek, Abraham, Moses, and Zoroaster. There were numerous centers that might have responded to the Jesusonian gospel, but the Christian missionaries of the desert lands were an austere and unyielding group in contrast with the compromisers and innovators who functioned as missionaries in the Mediterranean countries. Had the followers of Jesus taken more seriously his injunction to “go into all the world and preach the gospel,” and had they been more gracious in that preaching, less stringent in collateral social requirements of their own devising, then many lands would gladly have received the simple gospel of the carpenter’s son, Arabia among them.

(1051.2) 95:7.4 Despite the fact that the great Levantine monotheisms failed to take root in Arabia, this desert land was capable of producing a faith which, though less demanding in its social requirements, was nonetheless monotheistic.

(1051.3) 95:7.5 There was only one factor of a tribal, racial, or national nature about the primitive and unorganized beliefs of the desert, and that was the peculiar and general respect which almost all Arabian tribes were willing to pay to a certain black stone fetish in a certain temple at Mecca. This point of common contact and reverence subsequently led to the establishment of the Islamic religion. What Yahweh, the volcano spirit, was to the Jewish Semites, the Kaaba stone became to their Arabic cousins.

BTW, Yahweh was just one of many nature Gods, he happen to be the God of the Sinai volcano.

Colter

August 19, 2013 at 12:17 pm#355640

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,19:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,18:46)

EDJ.

You said **Mecca is the woman**.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

I DID NOT SAY THAT, and you prove over and over that YOU do not pay attention.
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (Rev 17:9)

EDj.

QUOTE:
Mecca is **a city** in the South West part of the present Saudi Arabia, not far away from the Red sea. **Centuries before the rise of Islam**, **Mecca was serving as the main religious**, cultural and commercial center** for all of the Arabic tribes. An amazing detail about the city is that it is **surrounded by seven hills**.UNQUOTE:

——————————————————————
ARE YOU NOT SUGESTING THAT THE WHORE IN REVELATION, IS MECCA,SURROUNDED BY SEVEN HILLS?

ARE YOU NOT SUGESTING THAT THE GREAT CITY IN REV.17:18 IS MECCA?

wakeup.

August 19, 2013 at 12:22 pm#355644

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2013,19:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 19 2013,18:46)

EDJ.

btw: mountains are not hills.

wakeup.

Oh No?

“They that trust in the LORD shall be as Mount Zion,
which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.” (Psalms 125:1)

“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.” (Psalms 2:6)
Do you recant, or is your zeal to be right stronger than you ability to speak truth?

Ed (witness)

EdJ.

Mt zion is a spiritual mount. Can not be removed.
The *hill* spoken of, is the hill of jerusalem;its physical.

wakeup.

October 20, 2013 at 12:07 pm#359775

Proclaimer

Participant

October 22, 2013 at 7:22 am#359902

http://wulfrunasufiassociation.com/articles/armstrong/names-of-god-in-the-holy-bible-and-holy-quran/

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 20 2013,23:07)

Names of God, in the Holy Bible and Holy Qur’an

By Paul Salahuddin Armstrong

Introduction

When looking at the names of God used in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, it is important to remember a few things. Firstly, Christianity grew out of the Jewish community. Jesus himself was a practising Jew and initially seen by his followers as a Great Rabbi and a Prophet of God. Jesus lived in a Jewish society, and he spoke Hebrew and Aramaic, the languages of his people.

The Jews and Arabs are Semitic peoples, both they and their languages are related. Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic are in the same subfamily of languages. Neither Jesus or Moses referred to God as ‘God’ but rather as Elah, Elohim, El-Shaddai or another of His many names. Today, there seems to be some doubt in the minds of certain people on whether ‘Allah’ of Islam, is really the same ‘God’ of the Holy Bible. As I shall illustrate, the Lord Almighty has been known by many names even in the Holy Bible. But the names of God, found in the Holy Bible and the Holy Qur’an, are names of the same Almighty God.

Elohim, Eloah and Allah

Eloah (or Elah in Aramaic) is roughly equivalent to Ilah in Arabic, which means a god, any god. In Hebrew when the suffix ‘-im’ is added to Eloah, it donotes plurality, and ‘Elohim’ can refer to either Almighty God, or ‘gods’. Although, in most incidences where Elohim appears in the Holy Bible, Elohim refers to God rather than gods. In Arabic, if you add the prefix ‘Al-’ meaning ‘The’ to ‘Ilah’ it becomes ‘Al-Ilah’ or ‘The God’. However, due to the nature of Arabic, ‘Al-Ilah’ never appears in this form, as it always is written as ‘Allah’. Allah always refers to Almighty God, whereas Elohim usually refers to Almighty God, but their root in Eloah/Elah/Ilah is the same.

Elohim is the first name of God to appear the Holy Bible, in the first few words of Genesis;

“In the beginning God [Elohim] created the Heavens and the Earth” Genesis (1:1)

Echad / Ahad

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Mark (12:29) NIV

Here Jesus was quoting “Shema Yisrael“, the regularly recited declaration in Jewish tradition of belief in the One True God.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.” Deuteronomy (6:4) NIV

In this verse, ‘One’ is a translation of the Hebrew ‘Echad’. LORD is a translation of YHWH. So YHWH is Echad! In Surah Ikhlas in the Holy Qur’an, Allah is also descibed as the One;

“Say: He is Allah, The One and Only, Allah the Eternel, Absolute” Holy Qur’an (112:1-2)

Here, ‘One’ is a translation of the Arabic ‘Ahad’. Ahad is the Arabic variant of ‘Echad’ and both mean One, Only and Alone”.

Rakhuwm / Rahman

“And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful [Rakhuwm] and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth” Exodus (34:6)

“(For the LORD thy God is a merciful [Rakhuwm] God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.” Deuteronomy (4:31)

“BismAllah-ir Rahman-ir Raheem” – “In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful” – Each chapter of the Holy Qur’an begins with this phrase, and this is read by Muslims before undertaking most actions to bless their outcome.

The Hebrew ‘Rachuwm’ and the Arabic ‘Rahman’, share the same Semitic root, R-H-M. Both Rachuwm and Rahman mean Compassionate and Merciful.

YHWH-Shalom / Al-Salaam

“Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.” Judges (6:24)

Jehovah-Shalom ‘YHWH Shalom’ is rendered ‘The Lord is Peace’ in the NASB. In Arabic, God is known as ‘Al-Salaam’, which translates as ‘The Peace’ or ‘The Source Of Peace’.

Shekhinah / Sakina

Shekhinah is the presence or manifestation of God which has descended to “dwell” among humanity. The Arabic form of Shekhinah, ‘Sakina’ also appears in the Holy Qur’an.

Melech / Malik

Melech means King, this name is found in the Holy Qur’an in its Arabic form ‘Al-Malik’, ‘The King’. A more emphasised version of this name ‘Melech ha-Melachim’ means ‘The King of Kings’, and accurately indicates God’s ultimate sovereignty over all His creation. In Arabic, God is also known as ‘Malik Al-Mulk’.

Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh

When Moses asked God for His name, as recorded in the book of Exodus. God replies, ‘Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh’ or ‘I Am That I Am’.

“And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.” Exodus (3:13-15)

A little later on, God refers to Himself as YHWH.

“And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty [El-Shaddai], but by my name JEHOVAH [YHWH] was I not known to them.” Exodus (6:3)

The pronunciation and translation of YHWH is uncertain. There are currently many theories on the correct pronunciation. YHWH was rarely pronounced by the Jewish priests out of respect for God and His most Holy Name. They would usually read Adonai (Lord) in its place during services, this is where medieval Europeans got the idea of pronouncing YHWH with the vowels of Adonai, and came up with Jehovah. Today, Jehovah is recognised by most serious scholars as being inaccurate. Yahweh is currently the preferred pronunciation, although there are many, and no conclusive proof that any particular one is accurate.

‘Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh’ or ‘I Am That I Am’, indicates a number of divine qualities of God, which are mentioned in the Holy Qur’an;

1.The One “Al-Ahad”
2.The Eternal “As-Samad”
3.The Alive “Al-Hayy”
4.The Self-Subsisting “Al-Qayyum”
5.The Great One “Al-Azim”
6.The Truth “Al-Haqq”
7.The Aware “Al-Khabir”

Hence, the God described by these Arabic Divine Names in the Holy Qur’an, is none other than ‘Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh’ the God of Moses. As YHWH is a derivative of this Divine Name, then YHWH is Allah, Al-Ahad, As-Samad, Al-Hayy, Al-Qayyum, Al-Azim, Al-Haqq, and Al-Khabir. In Islam, Allah is known by 99 Divine Names recorded in the Holy Qur’an, some of these have a linguistic connection with their Hebrew counterparts, and some don’t. But if their meanings are understood, it becomes immediately obvious they are referring
to the same Almighty God described in the Holy Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob…

“We have sent thee inspiration as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him; We sent inspiration to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon and to David We gave the Psalms.” Holy Qur’an (4:163)

“Say: ‘We believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes and in (Books) given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord; we make no distinction between one and another among them and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam).’ Holy Qur’an (3:84)

Today, some people are trying to create discord amongst Jews, Christians and Muslims by creating suspicion amongst them. This is to suit their own agenda’s and has nothing to do with reality. Some of their claims are really quite absurd, to suggest for instance, that Muslims worship a false god who used to be one of the Arabian idols, or to suggest Christians worship a false god called ‘Yah’, the Ancient Egyptian moon god. Both of these are ridiculous assertions, which cause unnecessary confusion and misunderstanding amongst people, who otherwise have so much in common. Both Christians and Muslims believe in, and worship their Creator, Almighty God. Even if it were true that the names of their God, were at some point given to idols, would that really change anything? None of the Abrahamic faiths believe in idols!

Allah, Eloah, and YHWH are all names of the same Almighty God. The real differences between Christianity and Islam are theological; as in whether God is a Trinity? Was Jesus God incarnated in human form? Or did God beget a Son? On these points Islam has very similar views to Judaism, or Arian / Unitarian Christianity. These are things which can be discussed in a fair and open way.

Ultimately people will believe what they understand to be true. It is quite wrong for people to tell lies about another faith, or the people of that faith, simply to increase their own congregation. People who believe their religion to be the true, will most likely want to promote the ‘good news’. But surely the best and most ethical way of doing this, is to present their own and other faiths with fairness and honesty, and let people decide for themselves.

“Thou shalt not bear false witness…” Exodus (20:16)

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error” Holy Qur’an (2:256)

October 22, 2013 at 7:27 am#359903