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Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,03:30) Quote (Colter @ June 17 2013,21:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2013,11:43) Quote (Colter @ June 16 2013,22:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 15 2013,16:55) @ Colter That's the problem with the UB all those volumes and still a vital lack of understanding the scriptures it's like eating at a buffet
with so much food but none with that much flavor so you just over eat and get sick. Just examine some of the UB and you will
see it has no flavor it's spoiled food with no life in it. I will demonstrate if you like.
bodhitharta,God seeking Muslims do have a relationship with the one God even though they don't understand the incarnation of Jesus, that he is your creator, that he resurrected himself in a heavenly form, and that he is now Christ, Lord and God.
If you want to discuss it I would be glad to.
Colter
Of course I would love to dscuss it.Jesus is not our creator nor did he ever say such a thing.
Christ is the one who is anoited by God not by self-anointing.
We can discuss this but what will we use as a standard of agreement?
bodhitharta,And Jesus never said he was a prophet, he said he was The Son of God, he said not to tell anyone until he left and returned to heaven. To see Jesus was to see the Father.
I'm not sure what standard to use, Muslims cherry pick from the Christian Bibles so that wouldn't work. In Islam they have no issue with Gabriel pre-existing and coming down from heaven, but they can't comprehend Christ Michael, the co-creator, coming down from heaven as an incarnate being.
Muslims don't believe in Jesus the Son as the path to the Father, I believe Islam is an evolved religion so I don't know if we can have a standard.
Colter
Mark 63 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said to them, A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk, and healed them
I told you that you don't understand the simple things that are in the Bible. Jesus was a prophet the above proves it and I can show you elsewhere if need be.
“Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”I told you Islam cherry picks the Bible in order to gain some sort of associated validity.
Jesus never called himself a mere prophet, Islam’s flimsy claims are built on a common saying that was not even original to Jesus. But no one ever called themselves the Father. He said much more about himself which you must dishonestly ignore in order to deny.
Colter
Bod,
If you love your Muslim brothers and sisters like I know you do and I do..then take them the true message because they gladly welcome it, or they at least do listenQuote (Colter @ June 18 2013,06:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,03:30) Quote (Colter @ June 17 2013,21:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2013,11:43) Quote (Colter @ June 16 2013,22:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 15 2013,16:55) @ Colter That's the problem with the UB all those volumes and still a vital lack of understanding the scriptures it's like eating at a buffet
with so much food but none with that much flavor so you just over eat and get sick. Just examine some of the UB and you will
see it has no flavor it's spoiled food with no life in it. I will demonstrate if you like.
bodhitharta,God seeking Muslims do have a relationship with the one God even though they don't understand the incarnation of Jesus, that he is your creator, that he resurrected himself in a heavenly form, and that he is now Christ, Lord and God.
If you want to discuss it I would be glad to.
Colter
Of course I would love to dscuss it.Jesus is not our creator nor did he ever say such a thing.
Christ is the one who is anoited by God not by self-anointing.
We can discuss this but what will we use as a standard of agreement?
bodhitharta,And Jesus never said he was a prophet, he said he was The Son of God, he said not to tell anyone until he left and returned to heaven. To see Jesus was to see the Father.
I'm not sure what standard to use, Muslims cherry pick from the Christian Bibles so that wouldn't work. In Islam they have no issue with Gabriel pre-existing and coming down from heaven, but they can't comprehend Christ Michael, the co-creator, coming down from heaven as an incarnate being.
Muslims don't believe in Jesus the Son as the path to the Father, I believe Islam is an evolved religion so I don't know if we can have a standard.
Colter
Mark 63 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said to them, A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk, and healed them
I told you that you don't understand the simple things that are in the Bible. Jesus was a prophet the above proves it and I can show you elsewhere if need be.
“Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”I told you Islam cherry picks the Bible in order to gain some sort of associated validity.
Jesus never called himself a mere prophet, Islam’s flimsy claims are built on a common saying that was not even original to Jesus. But no one ever called themselves the Father. He said much more about himself which you must dishonestly ignore in order to deny.
Colter
Hi Colter.Are you not doing the same thing?
Cherry picking the scriptures?
The urantia, and the qur'an, cant not stand alone;
Can not defend it self,because there is no substance to it.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 18 2013,09:22) Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,06:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,03:30) Quote (Colter @ June 17 2013,21:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2013,11:43) Quote (Colter @ June 16 2013,22:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 15 2013,16:55) @ Colter That's the problem with the UB all those volumes and still a vital lack of understanding the scriptures it's like eating at a buffet
with so much food but none with that much flavor so you just over eat and get sick. Just examine some of the UB and you will
see it has no flavor it's spoiled food with no life in it. I will demonstrate if you like.
bodhitharta,God seeking Muslims do have a relationship with the one God even though they don't understand the incarnation of Jesus, that he is your creator, that he resurrected himself in a heavenly form, and that he is now Christ, Lord and God.
If you want to discuss it I would be glad to.
Colter
Of course I would love to dscuss it.Jesus is not our creator nor did he ever say such a thing.
Christ is the one who is anoited by God not by self-anointing.
We can discuss this but what will we use as a standard of agreement?
bodhitharta,And Jesus never said he was a prophet, he said he was The Son of God, he said not to tell anyone until he left and returned to heaven. To see Jesus was to see the Father.
I'm not sure what standard to use, Muslims cherry pick from the Christian Bibles so that wouldn't work. In Islam they have no issue with Gabriel pre-existing and coming down from heaven, but they can't comprehend Christ Michael, the co-creator, coming down from heaven as an incarnate being.
Muslims don't believe in Jesus the Son as the path to the Father, I believe Islam is an evolved religion so I don't know if we can have a standard.
Colter
Mark 63 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said to them, A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk, and healed them
I told you that you don't understand the simple things that are in the Bible. Jesus was a prophet the above proves it and I can show you elsewhere if need be.
“Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”I told you Islam cherry picks the Bible in order to gain some sort of associated validity.
Jesus never called himself a mere prophet, Islam’s flimsy claims are built on a common saying that was not even original to Jesus. But no one ever called themselves the Father. He said much more about himself which you must dishonestly ignore in order to deny.
Colter
Hi Colter.Are you not doing the same thing?
Cherry picking the scriptures?
The urantia, and the qur'an, cant not stand alone;
Can not defend it self,because there is no substance to it.wakeup.
Wakeup,Yes, you are right, I am picking what is true based on the updated authoritative revelation of the UB. The Authors of the various Bibles don't claim divine authority.
bodhitharta and other Muslims do the same thing based on the theory that the Quran is updated material. Im just pointing out what he is ignoring.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,06:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,03:30) Quote (Colter @ June 17 2013,21:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2013,11:43) Quote (Colter @ June 16 2013,22:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 15 2013,16:55) @ Colter That's the problem with the UB all those volumes and still a vital lack of understanding the scriptures it's like eating at a buffet
with so much food but none with that much flavor so you just over eat and get sick. Just examine some of the UB and you will
see it has no flavor it's spoiled food with no life in it. I will demonstrate if you like.
bodhitharta,God seeking Muslims do have a relationship with the one God even though they don't understand the incarnation of Jesus, that he is your creator, that he resurrected himself in a heavenly form, and that he is now Christ, Lord and God.
If you want to discuss it I would be glad to.
Colter
Of course I would love to dscuss it.Jesus is not our creator nor did he ever say such a thing.
Christ is the one who is anoited by God not by self-anointing.
We can discuss this but what will we use as a standard of agreement?
bodhitharta,And Jesus never said he was a prophet, he said he was The Son of God, he said not to tell anyone until he left and returned to heaven. To see Jesus was to see the Father.
I'm not sure what standard to use, Muslims cherry pick from the Christian Bibles so that wouldn't work. In Islam they have no issue with Gabriel pre-existing and coming down from heaven, but they can't comprehend Christ Michael, the co-creator, coming down from heaven as an incarnate being.
Muslims don't believe in Jesus the Son as the path to the Father, I believe Islam is an evolved religion so I don't know if we can have a standard.
Colter
Mark 63 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said to them, A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk, and healed them
I told you that you don't understand the simple things that are in the Bible. Jesus was a prophet the above proves it and I can show you elsewhere if need be.
“Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”I told you Islam cherry picks the Bible in order to gain some sort of associated validity.
Jesus never called himself a mere prophet, Islam’s flimsy claims are built on a common saying that was not even original to Jesus. But no one ever called themselves the Father. He said much more about himself which you must dishonestly ignore in order to deny.
Colter
You said Jesus was not a prophet I showed you that he was a Prophet.So do you agree that Jesus was a Prophet?
Now are you saying that Jesus was calling himself “Father”?
If so then how can th Father be greater than him as he also said unless “anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” is a spiritual statement not to be taken literally.
I don't think calling Jesus a prophet cherry picking:
Matthew 21:11
The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”Luke 24:19
“What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.John 6:14
After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.”Can a Prophet be God?
Quote (2besee @ June 17 2013,21:42) Bod,
Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Son of God, and eternal life is to know him and to know the Father. It is a learning process, with so many problems, and the times are getting hard spiritually as I am certain Muslims would agree. But, there is only one door, and that is Jesus Christ.
When you sa that Jesus is the only door how is it you do not understand that the same thing would go for Moses and the prophets or do you think that you can accept Jesus in your life and reject Moses and the prophets?Ephesians 2:20
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.Do you think you throwing away the foundation the house will stand, No it won't. Jesus is the cornerstone so that door doesn't stand by itself you have to believe in ALL the prophets an if you do not then as Jesus says:
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Yet you say that Jesus is the only door and yet you forget the one who sent him. Jesus clearly says NOT EVERYONE who says unto HIM “Lord'Lord””
But in reference to the one who sent him the scriptures say:
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.Quote (2besee @ June 17 2013,21:51) Bod,
The crucifixion has to be true, because look what Jesus said himself:Matthew 26
The Lord’s SupperNow as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Repentance isforthe forgiveness of sins thereis no blood required:Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.Mark 6:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent
Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.THIS IS ISLAM: SUBMIT TO GOD IN PEACE
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,10:24) Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,06:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,03:30) Quote (Colter @ June 17 2013,21:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2013,11:43) Quote (Colter @ June 16 2013,22:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 15 2013,16:55) @ Colter That's the problem with the UB all those volumes and still a vital lack of understanding the scriptures it's like eating at a buffet
with so much food but none with that much flavor so you just over eat and get sick. Just examine some of the UB and you will
see it has no flavor it's spoiled food with no life in it. I will demonstrate if you like.
bodhitharta,God seeking Muslims do have a relationship with the one God even though they don't understand the incarnation of Jesus, that he is your creator, that he resurrected himself in a heavenly form, and that he is now Christ, Lord and God.
If you want to discuss it I would be glad to.
Colter
Of course I would love to dscuss it.Jesus is not our creator nor did he ever say such a thing.
Christ is the one who is anoited by God not by self-anointing.
We can discuss this but what will we use as a standard of agreement?
bodhitharta,And Jesus never said he was a prophet, he said he was The Son of God, he said not to tell anyone until he left and returned to heaven. To see Jesus was to see the Father.
I'm not sure what standard to use, Muslims cherry pick from the Christian Bibles so that wouldn't work. In Islam they have no issue with Gabriel pre-existing and coming down from heaven, but they can't comprehend Christ Michael, the co-creator, coming down from heaven as an incarnate being.
Muslims don't believe in Jesus the Son as the path to the Father, I believe Islam is an evolved religion so I don't know if we can have a standard.
Colter
Mark 63 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said to them, A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk, and healed them
I told you that you don't understand the simple things that are in the Bible. Jesus was a prophet the above proves it and I can show you elsewhere if need be.
“Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”I told you Islam cherry picks the Bible in order to gain some sort of associated validity.
Jesus never called himself a mere prophet, Islam’s flimsy claims are built on a common saying that was not even original to Jesus. But no one ever called themselves the Father. He said much more about himself which you must dishonestly ignore in order to deny.
Colter
You said Jesus was not a prophet I showed you that he was a Prophet.So do you agree that Jesus was a Prophet?
Now are you saying that Jesus was calling himself “Father”?
If so then how can th Father be greater than him as he also said unless “anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” is a spiritual statement not to be taken literally.
I don't think calling Jesus a prophet cherry picking:
Matthew 21:11
The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”Luke 24:19
“What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.John 6:14
After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.”Can a Prophet be God?
No, you didn't show me that Jesus was a merely a prophet, you showed me where Jesus used a common phrase about people who teach or reveal truth.* Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and asked his apostles to keep it a secret until he left.
* The apostles and later Christians did not, do not consider Jesus to be a prophet.
* Islam has reduced Jesus to prophet and influenced you with their lack of faith and understanding.
Matthew 16:13-20
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. ………………20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
The Son of God can be divine because God made him that way, it doesn't matter that you neither believe nor understand what God can and can't do. God is not limited by your finite mind. Just because the creators of Islam didn't believe or understand doesn't mean that it's not true.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,11:58) No, you didn't show me that Jesus was a merely a prophet, you showed me where Jesus used a common phrase about people who teach or reveal truth. * Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and asked his apostles to keep it a secret until he left.
* The apostles and later Christians did not, do not consider Jesus to be a prophet.
* Islam has reduced Jesus to prophet and influenced you with their lack of faith and understanding.
Matthew 16:13-20
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. ………………20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
The Son of God can be divine because God made him that way, it doesn't matter that you neither believe nor understand what God can and can't do. God is not limited by your finite mind. Just because the creators of Islam didn't believe or understand doesn't mean that it's not true.
Colter
The people were saying or thinking he was one of the prophets of old. To say the son of the living God is not to say he was not a prophet and you keep saying “mere Prophet” as thre is such a thing as a “mere Prophet”David was considered the son of the living God as well, So was Solomon…etc
Now, Let us look at Exodus 4:22 “Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.”
Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called “Son”, but also his first born !!. Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!
Also, let us look at Jeremiah 31:9 “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.
Let us also look at Psalm 2:7 “….Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”
Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his “Son”, but also had made him his begotten Son !!!.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,12:19) Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,11:58) No, you didn't show me that Jesus was a merely a prophet, you showed me where Jesus used a common phrase about people who teach or reveal truth. * Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and asked his apostles to keep it a secret until he left.
* The apostles and later Christians did not, do not consider Jesus to be a prophet.
* Islam has reduced Jesus to prophet and influenced you with their lack of faith and understanding.
Matthew 16:13-20
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. ………………20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
The Son of God can be divine because God made him that way, it doesn't matter that you neither believe nor understand what God can and can't do. God is not limited by your finite mind. Just because the creators of Islam didn't believe or understand doesn't mean that it's not true.
Colter
The people were saying or thinking he was one of the prophets of old. To say the son of the living God is not to say he was not a prophet and you keep saying “mere Prophet” as thre is such a thing as a “mere Prophet”David was considered the son of the living God as well, So was Solomon…etc
Now, Let us look at Exodus 4:22 “Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.”
Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called “Son”, but also his first born !!. Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!
Also, let us look at Jeremiah 31:9 “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.
Let us also look at Psalm 2:7 “….Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”
Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his “Son”, but also had made him his begotten Son !!!.
So what, we are all sons of God, but we are not all the divine creator Son who is eternal, who came down from heaven, lived, died and raised himself up in a new form, who returned to heaven and is now invested with “all power and authority in heaven and on earth”People thought various things about the identity of this man Jesus, but the Father bore witness to his true identity in the hearts of the apostles. In secret they acknowledged the truth, he admitted the truth, he forbid them from revealing that he was much more than a prophet.
No prophets ever did what Jesus did nor did they make such claims about themselves.
That dog just won't hunt!
Colter
Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,13:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,12:19) Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,11:58) No, you didn't show me that Jesus was a merely a prophet, you showed me where Jesus used a common phrase about people who teach or reveal truth. * Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and asked his apostles to keep it a secret until he left.
* The apostles and later Christians did not, do not consider Jesus to be a prophet.
* Islam has reduced Jesus to prophet and influenced you with their lack of faith and understanding.
Matthew 16:13-20
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. ………………20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
The Son of God can be divine because God made him that way, it doesn't matter that you neither believe nor understand what God can and can't do. God is not limited by your finite mind. Just because the creators of Islam didn't believe or understand doesn't mean that it's not true.
Colter
The people were saying or thinking he was one of the prophets of old. To say the son of the living God is not to say he was not a prophet and you keep saying “mere Prophet” as thre is such a thing as a “mere Prophet”David was considered the son of the living God as well, So was Solomon…etc
Now, Let us look at Exodus 4:22 “Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.”
Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called “Son”, but also his first born !!. Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!
Also, let us look at Jeremiah 31:9 “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.
Let us also look at Psalm 2:7 “….Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”
Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his “Son”, but also had made him his begotten Son !!!.
So what, we are all sons of God, but we are not all the divine creator Son who is eternal, who came down from heaven, lived, died and raised himself up in a new form, who returned to heaven and is now invested with “all power and authority in heaven and on earth”People thought various things about the identity of this man Jesus, but the Father bore witness to his true identity in the hearts of the apostles. In secret they acknowledged the truth, he admitted the truth, he forbid them from revealing that he was much more than a prophet.
No prophets ever did what Jesus did nor did they make such claims about themselves.
That dog just won't hunt!
Colter
What did Jesusdo that the Prophets did not do?Elijah and Elisha raised others from the dead in fact the Bones of Elisha raised someone from the dead. Elijah did many miracles and so did Elisha, not to mention Moses. Elijah was even taken up to heaven in a whirlwind
1 Kings 17:17-24
King James Version (KJV)
17 And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
18 And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
19 And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
20 And he cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
22 And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.
24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the Lord in thy mouth is truth.
Elisha
2 KINGS 4:17-37 NKJ
17 And the woman conceived, and bore a son when the appointed time had come, of which Elisha had told her.
18 So the child grew. Now it happened one day that he went out to his father, to the reapers.
19 And he said to his father, “My head, my head!” So he said to a servant, “Carry him to his mother.”
20 When he had taken him and brought him to his mother, he sat on her knees till noon, and then died.
21 And she went up and laid him on the bed of the man of God, shut the door upon him, and went out.
22 Then she called to her husband, and said, “Please send me one of the young men and one of the donkeys, that I may run to the man of God and come back.”
23 So he said, “Why are you going to him today? It is neither the New Moon nor the Sabbath.” And she said, “It is well.”
24 Then she saddled a donkey, and said to her servant, “Drive, and go forward; do not slacken the pace for me unless I tell you.”
25 So she departed, and went to the man of God at Mount Carmel. And so it was, when the man of God saw her afar off, that he said to his servant Gehazi, “Look, there is the Shunammite woman.
26 “Please run now to meet her, and say to her, `Is it well with you? Is it well with your husband? Is it well with the child?'” And she answered, “It is well.”
27 Now when she came to the man of God atthe hill, she caught him by the feet, but Gehazi came near to push her away. But the man of God said, “Let her alone; for her soul is in deep distress, and the Lord has hidden it from me, and has not told me.”
28 And she said, “Did I ask a son of my lord? Did I not say, `Do not deceive me'?”
29 Then he said to Gehazi, “Get yourself ready, and take my staff in your hand, and be on your way. If you meet anyone, do not greet him; and if anyone greets you, do not answer him; but lay my staff on the face of the child.”
30 And the mother of the child said, “As the Lord lives, and as your soul lives, I will not leave you.” So he arose and followed her.
31 Now Gehazi went on ahead of them, and laid the staff on the face of the child; but there was neither voice nor hearing. Therefore he went back to meet him, and told him, saying, “The child has not awakened.”
32 And when Elisha came into the house, there was the child, lying dead on his bed.
33 He went in therefore, shut the door behind the two of them, and prayed to the Lord.
34 And he went up and lay on the child, and put his mouth on his mouth, his eyes on his eyes, and his hands on his hands; and he stretched himself out on the child, and the flesh of the child became warm.
35 He returned and walked back and forth in the house, and again went up and stretched himself out on him; then the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
36 And he called Gehazi and said, “Call this Shunammite woman.” So he called her. And when she came in to him, he said, “Pick up your son.”
37 So she went in, fell at his feet, and bowed to the ground; then she picked up her son and went outQuote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,10:35) Quote (2besee @ June 17 2013,21:42) Bod,
Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Son of God, and eternal life is to know him and to know the Father. It is a learning process, with so many problems, and the times are getting hard spiritually as I am certain Muslims would agree. But, there is only one door, and that is Jesus Christ.
When you sa that Jesus is the only door how is it you do not understand that the same thing would go for Moses and the prophets or do you think that you can accept Jesus in your life and reject Moses and the prophets?Ephesians 2:20
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.Do you think you throwing away the foundation the house will stand, No it won't. Jesus is the cornerstone so that door doesn't stand by itself you have to believe in ALL the prophets an if you do not then as Jesus says:
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Yet you say that Jesus is the only door and yet you forget the one who sent him. Jesus clearly says NOT EVERYONE who says unto HIM “Lord'Lord””
But in reference to the one who sent him the scriptures say:
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Hi BD,Muhammad is the false prophet of Rev.13:11; him we *DON'T* have to listen to.
Ed
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,12:19)
The people were saying or thinking he was one of the prophets of old. To say the son of the living God is not to say he was not a prophet and you keep saying “mere Prophet” as thre is such a thing as a “mere Prophet”
Hi BD,I believe the point Colter is making is:
Jesus as owner of the house is above the servants of the house.Ed
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,14:06) Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,13:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,12:19) Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,11:58) No, you didn't show me that Jesus was a merely a prophet, you showed me where Jesus used a common phrase about people who teach or reveal truth. * Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and asked his apostles to keep it a secret until he left.
* The apostles and later Christians did not, do not consider Jesus to be a prophet.
* Islam has reduced Jesus to prophet and influenced you with their lack of faith and understanding.
Matthew 16:13-20
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. ………………20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
The Son of God can be divine because God made him that way, it doesn't matter that you neither believe nor understand what God can and can't do. God is not limited by your finite mind. Just because the creators of Islam didn't believe or understand doesn't mean that it's not true.
Colter
The people were saying or thinking he was one of the prophets of old. To say the son of the living God is not to say he was not a prophet and you keep saying “mere Prophet” as thre is such a thing as a “mere Prophet”David was considered the son of the living God as well, So was Solomon…etc
Now, Let us look at Exodus 4:22 “Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.”
Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called “Son”, but also his first born !!. Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!
Also, let us look at Jeremiah 31:9 “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.
Let us also look at Psalm 2:7 “….Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”
Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his “Son”, but also had made him his begotten Son !!!.
So what, we are all sons of God, but we are not all the divine creator Son who is eternal, who came down from heaven, lived, died and raised himself up in a new form, who returned to heaven and is now invested with “all power and authority in heaven and on earth”People thought various things about the identity of this man Jesus, but the Father bore witness to his true identity in the hearts of the apostles. In secret they acknowledged the truth, he admitted the truth, he forbid them from revealing that he was much more than a prophet.
No prophets ever did what Jesus did nor did they make such claims about themselves.
That dog just won't hunt!
Colter
What did Jesusdo that the Prophets did not do?Elijah and Elisha raised others from the dead in fact the Bones of Elisha raised someone from the dead. Elijah did many miracles and so did Elisha, not to mention Moses. Elijah was even taken up to heaven in a whirlwind
Biditharta.CAN PROPHETS LIKE MOHAMAD FORGIVE SINS?
wakeup.
Quote What did Jesus do that the Prophets did not do? Is that even a serious question? Are you sooooo desirous to defend what Islam tells you about Jesus that you would delude yourself by focusing on some elements but not ALL the facts associated with the story of Christ?
The prophets did not:
* live in heaven before this world was
* create the world
* leave his place and all it's glory behind to incarnate as a mortal to reveal the Father in greater detail to mankind.
* have duel natures
* live a sinless life
* claim they could resurrect themselves from the dead to prove their divinity
* return to heaven as Sovereign Lord and God!
Why do you not consider Jesus to have been “John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah or one of the prophets, because those were the rumors at the time according to Peter? But Jesus goes on to validate who the apostles thought he was, NOT a prophet, the Christ!
Colter
Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2013,14:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2013,12:19)
The people were saying or thinking he was one of the prophets of old. To say the son of the living God is not to say he was not a prophet and you keep saying “mere Prophet” as thre is such a thing as a “mere Prophet”
Hi BD,I believe the point Colter is making is:
Jesus as owner of the house is above the servants of the house.Ed
Hi Ed,That’s a good way of putting it, but BD is not allowed to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in militant Islam that is the ONE unforgivable sin:
“In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every—one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
—Quran sura 5Centuries after Jesus left this new militant religion of Islam evolved to fill a void among the Semitic tribes or cousins of the ancient Hebrews. While it's really difficult for anyone to deny the heart felt words of Jesus, the people who created Islam lacked faith or belief in the entire story so they adopted what they did believe to build their new religion with.
BD would be in danger of being killed by Islamist if he became a disciple of Jesus The Christ. So at best we will only get half truths from him. Swats at gnats but swallows camels.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ June 18 2013,22:27) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2013,14:21) Hi BD, I believe the point Colter is making is:
Jesus as owner of the house is above the servants of the house.Ed
Hi Ed,That’s a good way of putting it, but BD is not allowed to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in militant Islam that is the ONE unforgivable sin:
Colter
Hi Colter,'islam' is the spirit of antichrist; they deny both the father and the son. (see 1John 2:22, Gal.1:8, & 2Cor.11:14)
Ed
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