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Wakeup,
Quote 4. A spirit body can materialise at any time;with permission. Jesus materialised in the flesh,to proof to his disciples that he was really Jesus Jesus showed them his hands and his feet to show them that He was not a spirit, which is the opposite of what you are saying.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 12 2013,15:02) Quote (Wakeup @ June 11 2013,21:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 11 2013,14:00) Also using buzz words like “revive” and “Materialize” puts you in the same new age boat as colter. Where do you see such language in the scriptures?
Boditharta.There is a reason for me to use those words; and that is to make it easier to understand.
Mabe I should have used words like translated; or taken.
Some can not understand those words.Angels can translate into flesh;by permission.
wakeup.
Cn you show m this method of translation by permission in the bible?
Boditharta.1. Melchizedek was the *WORD TRANSLATED* into flesh.
2. The 3 angels meeting Abraham were*TRANSLATED*
INTO FLESH. THEY ATE AND DRANK.3.Jesus was resurrected SPIRIT; and he *TRANLATED* HIMSELF INTO FLESH;HE ATE AND DRANK.
TO SHOW HIS BROTHERS THAT HE, REALLY WAS JESUS CRUCIFIED.At his coming jesus will translate himself into flesh;
for every eye shall see him. Mans eye can not see spirit.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 13 2013,22:01) At his coming jesus will translate himself into flesh;
for every eye shall see him. Mans eye can not see spirit.wakeup.
“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:
yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,
yet now henceforth know we him no more.” (2 Cor 5:16)Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,16:41) which is the opposite of what you are saying. Quote (bodhitharta @ June 11 2013,14:00) Also using buzz words like “revive” and “Materialize” puts you in the same new age boat as colter. Where do you see such language in the scriptures?
“ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.”
Paul“Translation” is NOT the technique wherein celestial beings make themselves visible to the light reflection detected by human eyes.
Translation is going from one life form to another, the mortal body to the “enduring substance.”
Adam and Eve, Melchizedek and Jesus came in reverse from the “enduring substance”, from celestial to mortal.
I know, I know, you cannot think outside of the stone age practice of scripture worship, but in my boat we are moving forward and I'm glad to be in it.
Colter
Ed,
Context and a better translation please.2Cor 5.
[16] From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once regarded Christ from a human point of view, we regard him thus no longer.
[17] Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.
[18] All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
[19] that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
[20] So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,18:41) Wakeup, Quote 4. A spirit body can materialise at any time;with permission. Jesus materialised in the flesh,to proof to his disciples that he was really Jesus Jesus showed them his hands and his feet to show them that He was not a spirit, which is the opposite of what you are saying.
See how wakeup will ignore those scriptures?“See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have”.
Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,23:01) Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,18:41) Wakeup, Quote 4. A spirit body can materialise at any time;with permission. Jesus materialised in the flesh,to proof to his disciples that he was really Jesus Jesus showed them his hands and his feet to show them that He was not a spirit, which is the opposite of what you are saying.
See how wakeup will ignore those scriptures?“See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have”.
Besee.Its not that I ignore any sripture;but its because you can not see.
That jesus had to show himself as he *WAS*, to proof to them that he is indeed Jesus crucified.The translation from spirit to flesh was perfect.
Truly flesh and bone.
This is what you can not understand; the purpose of the translation. Flesh can not touch and feel spirit.wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,22:46) Ed,
Context and a better translation please.2Cor 5.
[16] From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once regarded Christ from a human point of view, we regard him thus no longer.
[17] Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.
[18] All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
[19] that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
[20] So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Hi 2Besee,Jammin would agree with you that the best translation is the one that best matches
his bias. pick your bias best – is that it? …a kind of “Musical Bibles” so to speak, huh?The “AKJV Bible” was translated “word for word”,
'thought for thought' falls short of repeating God's message correctly!“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways,
and higher are my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)Ed
Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,22:47) That was the RSV, now, tell me you do not understand that?
Oh, I understand just fine; read my last post so that you too may understand.Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2013,01:14) Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,22:47) That was the RSV, now, tell me you do not understand that?
Oh, I understand just fine; read my last post so that you too may understand.
The way you see it creates contradictions with other Scripture.Quote (Wakeup @ June 13 2013,23:26) Besee. Its not that I ignore any sripture;but its because you can not see.
wakeup.
It's just that you don't room for some to fit your futurism belief.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 14 2013,01:26) Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,23:01) Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,18:41) Wakeup, Quote 4. A spirit body can materialise at any time;with permission. Jesus materialised in the flesh,to proof to his disciples that he was really Jesus Jesus showed them his hands and his feet to show them that He was not a spirit, which is the opposite of what you are saying.
See how wakeup will ignore those scriptures?“See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have”.
Besee.Its not that I ignore any sripture;but its because you can not see.
That jesus had to show himself as he *WAS*, to proof to them that he is indeed Jesus crucified.The translation from spirit to flesh was perfect.
Truly flesh and bone.
This is what you can not understand; the purpose of the translation. Flesh can not touch and feel spirit.wakeup.
So the firstborn from the dead means what to you? If Jesus was a spirit (according to you)………who became man……then just became spirit again………..WHY IS HE THE FIRSTBORN? Why is he a “new creation”?Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2013,03:12) Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,22:46) Ed,
Context and a better translation please.2Cor 5.
[16] From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once regarded Christ from a human point of view, we regard him thus no longer.
[17] Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.
[18] All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
[19] that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
[20] So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Hi 2Besee,Jammin would agree with you that the best translation is the one that best matches
his bias. pick your bias best – is that it? …a kind of “Musical Bibles” so to speak, huh?The “AKJV Bible” was translated “word for word”,
'thought for thought' falls short of repeating God's message correctly!“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways,
and higher are my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)Ed
Nice avoidance. Not.Read that verse in context Ed.
Are you telling me that Paul was try to say that no living man around him, including you today is made of flesh and bone? Do you not have flesh and bone?Wakeup,
Where is your evidence that Lazarus went on to die? You have none. If you do, show us with scripture.Quote (2besee @ June 14 2013,09:06) Wakeup,
Where is your evidence that Lazarus went on to die? You have none. If you do, show us with scripture.
2Besee.There are no scriptures stating that lazarus died again.
But we know that no one can live for ever,and dont grow old.
Can you give me scripture that Mary Magdalene died?
Or that Mary And Joseph died?wakeup.
Wakeup,
I have scriptural reason to believe that Lazarus did not die, but only some would understand my scriptural reasoning.
As to your question: Mary and Joseph are never said to have been risen from the dead as Lazarus was. Lazarus was dead for four days.
If you make claims which cannot be verified with scripture, them that is all it is: your claims.
Nowhere does it say that Lazarus went on to die again, in fact, somewhere, it says something suggestive of possibly the opposite.
Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,16:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 11 2013,14:12) Quote (2besee @ June 11 2013,11:00) Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,02:49) Bod,
Moving ahead a bit (sorry, just writing what came to me)Jesus was Son of God at birth/conception like Adam was the Son of God, because both Adam and Jesus had no Father of the Flesh.
Jesus was again the Son of God at the river Jordan when the Spirit of the Son (The Holy Spirit) descended upon Him; the anointing.
Jesus was the Son of God again when He was risen up from the dead. This is when He changed.
So, Three times Son of God, the rising from the dead sealed the eternal sonship. Because of His perfection was He three times Son of God – before birth, after water baptism, and after death.
If you want the verses to go with that just ask.
Bod,
Do you agree with this, or disagree?
I agree with his ever increasing rank and empowerment just like you put it the only difference is whether therm son is literal or not. You seem to believe more like me as it is speaking of a degree or rank not actual family like how we have children on earth.I am saying that someone can be “like” a son but can never be a literal son because God is not a Male or a female but a PURE SPIRIT and therefore God is beyond being a literal Father or having a literal son because HE transcends such physical realities.
Bod, I agree. Take it a step further:“Flesh gives birth to flesh, and spirit gives birth to spirit”.
How do we define the word “flesh”in the above context?
I believe that it is in regards to anything that is a body which includes human beings, animals, birds, fish, or even planets. This includes the resurrected Jesus. Each has “flesh” (read: body) as according to its kind. Each is limited in it's own way, and each gives birth in its own way to its own kind.
1Cor 15: “God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39 For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.”
God is spirit.
What exactly is spirit?
And how does “spirit give birth to spirit”?If spirit gives birth to spirit then that which is born is spirit and would be called a Son of the original spirit (God).
The spirit of the Son is identified in scripture to be the Holy Spirit.
Do you agree and would this not go against what the Quran says (that God does not have a Son)?
Yes I agree and so does the Quran, the fact i though tht God does not have a son because God CREATED the Holy Spirit of Jesus he didn't procreate like we do needing a mate.O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (“Be!” – and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: “Three (trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
Quote (Wakeup @ June 13 2013,22:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 12 2013,15:02) Quote (Wakeup @ June 11 2013,21:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 11 2013,14:00) Also using buzz words like “revive” and “Materialize” puts you in the same new age boat as colter. Where do you see such language in the scriptures?
Boditharta.There is a reason for me to use those words; and that is to make it easier to understand.
Mabe I should have used words like translated; or taken.
Some can not understand those words.Angels can translate into flesh;by permission.
wakeup.
Cn you show m this method of translation by permission in the bible?
Boditharta.1. Melchizedek was the *WORD TRANSLATED* into flesh.
2. The 3 angels meeting Abraham were*TRANSLATED*
INTO FLESH. THEY ATE AND DRANK.3.Jesus was resurrected SPIRIT; and he *TRANLATED* HIMSELF INTO FLESH;HE ATE AND DRANK.
TO SHOW HIS BROTHERS THAT HE, REALLY WAS JESUS CRUCIFIED.At his coming jesus will translate himself into flesh;
for every eye shall see him. Mans eye can not see spirit.wakeup.
Where are these scriptures of translating?Jesu told them plainly tha he was not a Spirit so if you say a spirit “translates” it would still be a spirit translating. Jesus say HE IS NOT A SPIRIT when he addresses them. Is Jess telling the truth?
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