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Journey,
'Gog and Magog' – I do not know, I have not looked into that yet
If their number is as the sand of the sea then it would have to be all of the men on the earth today. Well, almost all of the men on earth today who “gather together” to battle.
Matthew 25.
[26] So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
[27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[28] Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. [/i]This is about the coming of Jesus yes?
Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together…
Revelations 19.
'[11] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
[12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself.
[13] He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
[14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses.
[15] From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
[16] On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.
[17]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God,
[18] to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”
[19] And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army.
[20] And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.
[21] And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.'Chapter 20 (Gog and Magog) appears to be a repeat of Revelations 19 (A recap).
The following has already happened:
Revelations 20
[1] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.
[2] And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
[3] and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.
[4]Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.And now we are up to Gog and Magog; and the Day of the Lord – the return of Jesus
[7] And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison
[8] and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
[9] And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11]Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
[14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
[15] and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.And in the next chapters is the ushering in of the eternal Kingdom.
And as for where The Camp of the Saints is, I do not know.
As it is a “Camp”, it could be anywhere.
Where are the Saints now – is it speaking about the resurrected Saints or Saints still alive…
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 04 2013,09:16) Journey, 'Gog and Magog' – I do not know, I have not looked into that yet
If their number is as the sand of the sea then it would have to be all of the men on the earth today. Well, almost all of the men on earth today who “gather together” to battle.
Hi 2BesseThe camp is called “The Camp of the Saints”, so this can not include all men on the earth today.
The camp of the saints is being attacked by Gog and Magog, and fire comes out of heaven by God to destroy them (for attacking the camp)
The camp is surrounded. This shows that whoever is living in the camp, are living all in the one place….in that camp.
It says AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS, these things will happen.
Christ returns FIRST. So AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS, IS AFTER CHRIST'S SECOND COMING, NOT BEFORE.Please check the scriptures again. It says CHRIST WILL REIGN WITH HIS SAINTS FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. We cannot reign with him before he returns, because he brings his reward with him,….at his coming.
And it says this;
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were FINISHED……So something big is going to be happening when Christ returns, just like the scriptures state…..for a thousand years,…(the camp of the saints) ….not thousandS of years. This is contrary to the wording in scripture. They have added an S where it should not be, and made a doctrine out of it. Can you see this so far yet?
Journey, I DID NOT MEAN the camp of the Saints is all men on earth!??
I meant 'Gog and Magog' could be 'most of the men on earth today', or at least those who go up against the 'Camp of the Saints'.
that was a typo, sorry.Hope that is a bit clearer, thank-you.
Hi Journey, Revelations is not written in Chronological order.
I figured that out when I first sat down to study the book years ago.Anyway, enough posting for me for today,
Bye for now!No, that was not a typo! I did say correctly, quote:
Quote Journey, 'Gog and Magog' – I do not know, I have not looked into that yet
If their number is as the sand of the sea then it would have to be all of the men on the earth today. Well, almost all of the men on earth today who “gather together” to battle.
Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 04 2013,02:17) Quote And this is for a thousand years, and then somehow Satan and millions of evil people will join Him and will go to war once more after the thousand years? So tell me, Journey; Wakeup; and Devolution…. Where did the millions of followers of Satan come from if all evil was destroyed? Only the wicked get destroyed by the wrath and the 2nd coming.
We have explained this already.
The wicked from THAT generation of the wrath & 2nd coming.
Scripture already declares how many get killed during the three woes, and that number will be far greater than the death from the previous 4 trumpets.
So yes, we can have a reasonable guess at how many survivors survive…but it would be a guess…
But there definitely will be survivors as scripture declares.2besee,
Nobody will be forced to follow Christ during that time.
Many will accept Him & many, as time goes by over that 1000 years, many won't.
It's all percentages that only God knows the figures to.
We can only guess.This kingdom period is for the dead Jews raised up into flesh & surviving Jews to be given the Holy Spirit like the Christians were before them.
Romans 8:11 is the reason if you have ears to hear the message.A 1000 years is a long time of breeding up generations & multitudes.
Satan was reserved in prison over that 1000 years for a purpose…God is not finished using him…God uses the wicked to do the wicked work…used for one last purpose:Revelation 20:7 >And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 >And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 >And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 >And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You speak as though we are making this up.
But it is Your statements that actually show a lack of PERSONAL understanding.
It's as if you are repeating something memorised and NOT personally learnt/discovered/fully searched out?Quote Also regarding the Kingdom, it says that nobody knows what God has in store for those that love Him. No mind can perceive it. You misunderstand the message, wrong application.
1 Corinthians 2:7 >But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.
1Corinthians 2:8 >Which none of the princes of this world knew, for had THEY known it, THEY would not have crucified The Lord of glory.
1 Corinthians 2:9 >BUT as IT is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
THEY don't know.
Sure, obviously WE don't know everything He has in store for us either, but we AREN'T speaking about that now are we!!
We're speaking of the millennial kingdom, the 1st dominion and the PROPHECIES that do TELL us what to expect, that declare it, these are what we are speaking of….so you see, we do NOT need to guess or make up stories on the subject matter.Nor do we need to “imagine”.
Thank you.
Devolution, I disagree with most of this.Did you come to your understanding off of another, or with another?
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 04 2013,12:20) Journey, I DID NOT MEAN the camp of the Saints is all men on earth!??
I meant 'Gog and Magog' could be 'most of the men on earth today', or at least those who go up against the 'Camp of the Saints'.
that was a typo, sorry.Hope that is a bit clearer, thank-you.
Hi 2BesseYes thank you. That's very clear now.
2Besse
That's why I wanted you to take a look at Ezekiel concerning Gog and Magog.
Ezekiel 38:2 Son of Man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal and PROPHESY AGAINST HIM.
Ezekiel 38:8 After MANY DAYS thou shalt be visited: in the LATTER YEARS thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel which have always been waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely, all of them.
Ezekiel 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages, I will go to THEM that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without wallls, and having neither bars not gates.
Ezekiel 38:14 Therefore, son of man, PROPHESY and say unto GOG, Thus saith the LORD GOD: In that day when of ISRAEL dwelleth safely, thou shalt not know it.
Ezekiel 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army
Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.Ezekiel 38:17 Thus saith the Lord God; art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them.
Pierre, and 2Besse, I would like to show you who Gog and Magog is.
The above scriptures show us that there is a land that dwells safely. This land was always at war in the past, but now they dwell safely, all of them. Christ rescued them (brought back from the sword) They have no walls, bars or gates, because the lamb is their defence and keeps them safe, and at peace. This is the land of Israel during the 1000 year reign. They are kept safe because this is the headquarters of the kingdom on earth where Christ will rule from.
This is the camp of the saints and refers to after the thousand years of Christ ruling, when Satan will be released. He will choose a man (Gog) to carry out his plan of attacking the land of Israel. (the holy camp) Satan has been locked up for a thousand years, so all is new to him, to see a people living in peace. So Satan uses this man Gog, and Magog is the men he uses to form his armies. He gathers these armies from the four quarters of the earth and plans his attack on Israel.
The kingdom on earth, with the Israelites dwelling there, do not get harmed. God will kill Gog, and Magog there himself with fire from heaven. So God is in heaven, and the kingdom is on earth with Christ ruling.
And when God is speaking to “Gog” he is really speaking to Satan, who is behind him, and in him, directing him to lead this attack.
So again, in perspective,
Christ 2 coming
Satan bound
Saints rule with Christ 1000 years, in Israel. Headquarters Jerusalem. (camp of the Saints)
Israelites in the flesh only living in the kingdom, being taught of Christ, protected.
Nations existing outside the kingdom. (people still multiplying)
After a thousand years, Satan let loose
Uses his man “Gog” to gather and lead his armies called “Magog”
They attack the camp of the saints (kingdom in Israel)
Gog and his armies destroyed.Does this make sense so far?
obviously you have to read the entire chapters for yourself so you don't miss anything.
Don't dismiss it, keep reading and going over those scriptures, you will see it eventually.Quote (2besee @ Jan. 05 2013,08:43) Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 04 2013,02:17) Quote And this is for a thousand years, and then somehow Satan and millions of evil people will join Him and will go to war once more after the thousand years? So tell me, Journey; Wakeup; and Devolution…. Where did the millions of followers of Satan come from if all evil was destroyed? Only the wicked get destroyed by the wrath and the 2nd coming.
We have explained this already.
The wicked from THAT generation of the wrath & 2nd coming.
Scripture already declares how many get killed during the three woes, and that number will be far greater than the death from the previous 4 trumpets.
So yes, we can have a reasonable guess at how many survivors survive…but it would be a guess…
But there definitely will be survivors as scripture declares.2besee,
Nobody will be forced to follow Christ during that time.
Many will accept Him & many, as time goes by over that 1000 years, many won't.
It's all percentages that only God knows the figures to.
We can only guess.This kingdom period is for the dead Jews raised up into flesh & surviving Jews to be given the Holy Spirit like the Christians were before them.
Romans 8:11 is the reason if you have ears to hear the message.A 1000 years is a long time of breeding up generations & multitudes.
Satan was reserved in prison over that 1000 years for a purpose…God is not finished using him…God uses the wicked to do the wicked work…used for one last purpose:Revelation 20:7 >And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 >And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 >And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 >And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You speak as though we are making this up.
But it is Your statements that actually show a lack of PERSONAL understanding.
It's as if you are repeating something memorised and NOT personally learnt/discovered/fully searched out?Quote Also regarding the Kingdom, it says that nobody knows what God has in store for those that love Him. No mind can perceive it. You misunderstand the message, wrong application.
1 Corinthians 2:7 >But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.
1Corinthians 2:8 >Which none of the princes of this world knew, for had THEY known it, THEY would not have crucified The Lord of glory.
1 Corinthians 2:9 >BUT as IT is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
THEY don't know.
Sure, obviously WE don't know everything He has in store for us either, but we AREN'T speaking about that now are we!!
We're speaking of the millennial kingdom, the 1st dominion and the PROPHECIES that do TELL us what to expect, that declare it, these are what we are speaking of….so you see, we do NOT need to guess or make up stories on the subject matter.Nor do we need to “imagine”.
Thank you.
Devolution, I disagree with most of this.Did you come to your understanding off of another, or with another?
Hi 2besee,Have you ever wondered what God might have in store for us?
Imagined the possibilities of being like the angels?
Being able to fly…to teleport…to change into another state of being whilst exploring a new galaxy God might create out of some yet unknown “material” other than flesh or spirit?
Well I have & I bet you have too…
Therefore…You & I are not like these below…
1 Corinthians 2:9 >But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Because it HAS entered our hearts…WE believers DO wonder about it…but unbelievers…THEY don't think these same things we do…they don't wonder about what God has prepared, coz they don't CARE.
Now do you see what it is saying brother?
Thanks 2besee.
Hi 2Besse
Quote Chapter 20 (Gog and Magog) appears to be a repeat of Revelations 19 (A recap).
Not so.Quote The following has already happened: Quote Revelations 20 [1] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.
[2] And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
[3] and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.
[4]Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.
Maybe we should of gone to chapter 19 first?
Rev 19:1 And after these things (what things?)
I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia, Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power unto the Lord our God.This happens after Great Babylon is judged. Destroyed.
Rev 18:17 For in ONE HOUR so great riches is come to nought. And every ship master, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city?
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costilness, FOR IN ONE HOUR IS SHE MADE DESOLATE.Question: These people have just witnessed Babylon the great being destroyed in ONE HOUR. They are mourning and crying for their loss. WHAT ARE THEY STILL DOING ALIVE? WHY ARE THEY NOT ALL DEAD YET?
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgements; for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:4 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him both small and great.The time has come.
Rev 19:5 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
This is how I see it.
Remember the woman in Rev 12? She gave birth to a man child. She is Zion. God's woman. She gave birth to Christ, (firstborn of the dead out of Zions womb) but since then, she's been pregnant again and has been carrying this whole time. She travails in labour just before her children are born (tribulation for the saints). She is now ready to give birth to all her other children at once.Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
This woman is depicted as God's wife. ZION. She has made herself ready (for the birth, to deliver her children) This is the first resurrection of the saints.
Note: The lamb, Jesus Christ is the first child of the woman, and therefore cannot be the husband. The first child cannot be married to his brothers and sisters, nor can he be married to his mother.
For the marriage of the lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready. Sounds confusing. Who is the lamb? He is the one doing the cleaning up. He is the Word of God and does all this through that Word in him, his Fathers Word. He presents Zion's children to his Father, all his younger brethren… ready to be purified and have their dirty garments made white, because they came into Zion's womb through him, and because of him. He, Christ, the eldest, is commissioned by his Father to guide the younger ones, us… To teach us by passing down our Fathers commandments and showing us all truth so that we can learn and copy of him, if we want to have a share our inheritance.
The marriage is between God and his woman, Zion. Not a real marriage, but depicted like one. Glorious. A big celebration. A union that is going to produce even more children. A union that Christ presents to his Father.Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, write, blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.This vision overwhelms John so much that he kneels down in front of the angel who is in front of him, giving him this vision. He gets told off, and now this vision continues, AFTER the BABYLON is destroyed vision, (the cities, the buildings, the businesses etc all gone.)
John is now shown Christ on the white horse with his armies (rev 19:14), the saints (John sees them now)
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he should rule them with a rod of ironQuestion: Christ is about to smite all the nations now. Why would he then rule them with a rod of iron if they are all going to be killed? To rule, is to govern over. You cannot govern people that are dead. (thinking cap)
Rev 19:17 And I
saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a lout voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heave, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God.Rev 19:18 That they may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
This is all those armies who are being destroyed, and their captains, and leaders, and kings, and at the same time, men every where, free and bond, small and great from all over the earth. It does not state here, but I know from other scriptures which I have given you that those killed will be the proud and evil men. All of them will be killed. Not the meek however, but the remnant (rev 19:21)
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the earth, and against his army.
Rev 20:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he decieved them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These BOTH were cast alive into the lake of fire.
This all happens at the Coming. Why is Satan not thrown in there. This would be great news, the one causing all the trouble. why leave this out?
Because Satan is going to be locked up. For a thousand years, so that he cannot deceive the nations till the 1000 years are expired, that's why.
To this day, Satan has never been locked up. He has been free to roam since the days of Adam and Eve. People are still being deceived by him. Still afflicted. The truth has gone out, yes, but he has even distorted this.Quote And now we are up to Gog and Magog; and the Day of the Lord – the return of Jesus
We have gone to far now.
You have left out the part where Christ reigns with his saints for a thousand years.Quote [7] And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison
It does not say this in Chapter 19. So it's not a repeat.Quote [8] and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
This is not mentioned in chapter 19.
Ezekiel gives us explanation of Gog and Magog. It fills in the missing gaps.Quote [9] And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
This is not a repeat of Chapter 19 but a continuation.I thank you for your reply however. I know it takes time to address everything, look up and type scripture.
Hi Journey42,
The kingdom of the antichrist is islam,
not the atheist global elitist's enterprises.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Georgie,
In the Greek “Anti” means both against and instead of.
Only Islam is both “instead of” AND “against” Jesus Christ.
The atheist global elitists are only against, not instead of Christ.Hope this helps you to see the difference.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 09 2013,20:42) Hi Georgie, In the Greek “Anti” means both against and instead of.
Only Islam is both “instead of” AND “against” Jesus Christ.
The atheist global elitists are only against, not instead of Christ.Hope this helps you to see the difference.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ.1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, EVEN NOW ARE THERE MANY ANTICHRISTS; whereby we know that it is the last time.
HELLO; THERE ARE NO MUSLEMS BACK THEN,ARE THERE.
wakeup.
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