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Isaiah 65:17-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:
for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and joy in my people:
and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her,
nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days,
nor an old man that hath not filled his days:
for the child shall die an hundred years old;
but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.This passage is one that speaks of death and dying in the same breath as speaking of the new heaven and the new earth. There will sinners therein. This does not sound like the new heavens and the new earths I have heard of. Point of fact sinners seldom make it to one hundred years in this present earth and heaven.
Let those that have insight into this matter speak.
Kerwin
You have to learn how to divide the scriptures.
There is no death once the new earth is created.
That was speaking of the kingdom, before the new earth.
When satan and his angels are cast into the fire in the battle of gog; death is conquered.
After the second judgement; all the graves are empty. All the goats are cast into the fire.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Perhaps I am not clear enough. In the passage the new heaven and new earth come to be in verse 17 and yet in verse 20 it speaks of death and dying as well as the existence of sinners. I see no context between two verses that reveal that this passage is speaking of a date previous to the time of the new and the new earth.
Hi Kerwin.
After the battle of Gog And Magog , satan and his angels are cast into the fire, made for the devil and his angels.
Death as a whole is conquered. Jesus conquered death for himself at His resurrection.
After the second resurrection all the wicked are also cast into the fire(the goats).
All the graves are now empty.
Then the new earth. Earth becomes as heaven.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
I understand that is what you think will happen but I do not understand how to interpret Isaiah 65:17-20 to fit that hypothesis. I have looked and heard a few interpretations that would fit with what I know. One of them would altar what I am currently thinking happens.
Isaiah 65:17-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:
for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and joy in my people:
and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her,
nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days,
nor an old man that hath not filled his days:
for the child shall die an hundred years old;
but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.Kerwin
This is how God hides his jewels (knowledge/clues)
He will just slot something in there that doesn’t fit with what the rest of the verses are speaking of.
That’s why Wakeup keeps telling everyone to “discern” the scriptures.
If we work out why a verse does not fit, and can place it in the right part of the grand plan,
then we have found a hidden jewel.
This is just how God works, because he wants us to find these jewels that are hidden. I love how God does this. He makes it so exciting for us.I will explain it to you, and hopefully it will make sense.
Jesus returns
He destroys Babylon the Great (the system of the world)
Christ will set up his kingdom and rule the nations with a rod of iron. He will be king of kings, and Lord of Lords.
Christ’s kingdom will also be a physical kingdom situated in Jerusalem.
Christ will reign for a thousand years with his saints.
The devil is locked up this whole time.
Knowledge will come out of the kingdom and cover the earth.
Everyone will hear the pure truth.
Nations will continue to multiply, for a thousand years.
Jerusalem will be restored. She will be like the garden of Eden.
The world outside Jerusalem will be different also, but all the cities of the world lie in ruinous heaps, and will not be inhabited.
So the populations will rebuild outside of the old cities.
The heavens have not changed at this stage,
and the earth is still not “new”
because there are men of flesh still living there, and ruinous heaps still existing.After the thousand years, when Satan is let out of prison,
he will use Gog, his man, to deceive the nations again (Magog)
When Gog and Magog attack the camp of the saints (kingdom area on earth)
they are not attacking the spiritual saints who are ruling with Christ, (how can flesh attack spirit?)
no, he is attacking the people living inside that kingdom boundary, the Jews, who are still flesh and blood.
When Gog is destroyed, Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the 2nd judgement will commence.
Now all the books are opened, and all the wicked will be destroyed forever,
All those who are accepted in this 2nd judgement are turned to spirit.
When that judgement is finished (the final sifting),
then Christ will present his bride to God, clean and purified, …they are all spirit now, every single person found in the book of life.Now God will purify the earth and the heavens, by melting it.
This can only happen at the end, after all the scriptures are fulfilled.
Death and hell will be no more.
New heavens and a new earth will be created.
It will not be a physical material world designed for flesh creatures,
but a spiritual world just like heaven for heavenly creatures.So your first verse fits right at the end, and those who live to be a hundred years old are those living inside the kingdom, the Jews. The man who lives to be a hundred yrs but – cursed is talking about those outside the kingdom
For the Jews brought into the kingdom by election, will not fall, none of them will be lost, but all saved.I hope you can understand.
Journey,
The soul and spirit are spiritual in nature a body that the soul dwells in is not. A “creature” composed of spirit is either a ghost or an immaterial angel. So a bunch of what you write I disagree with you about.
Never the less you started out very good on what you wrote but in that writing you never god around to explaining how Isaiah 65:17-20 fits into you hypothesis of the end of days.
The best I could quest at from what you wrote is that you believe the “thousand” year kingdom will have death and dying in it though not all the saints of that time will be subject to death. If that is what you believe then do you believe the words “new heaven” and “new earth” in Isaiah 65:17 are figurative?
Hi Wu
The general judgement does not come until after the first resurrection and after the 1000 yr reign of Jesus and the sons of God.
The sons of God have already passed from death to life having faced the tribunal of Christ
During that 1000yr period there will be a remnant natural and fleshly Israelite group [144 thousand ]that will be living on an increasingly peaceful earth.
The lion will lie down with the lamb and the child play in an asp’s nest – but they will all still die.
After the 1000 years the second resurrection unto the judgement of all the residue of mankind takes place.
DEATH and HADES are emptied and cast into the fire-the two waiting places for judgement are no longer required.
Wakeup,
It has been my though that the new heaven and new earth mentioned in Revelations wwould not occur until the era known as many by the 1000 year reign ended.
Journey,
The soul and spirit are spiritual in nature a body that the soul dwells in is not. A “creature” composed of spirit is either a ghost or an immaterial angel. So a bunch of what you write I disagree with you about.
Kerwin
We are all created made beings, human flesh beings.
Therefore we are all living creatures, including the angels.
God made us all Kerwin, does this offend you?
We are his created subjects, and not only us, but everything that exists was made by our heavenly Father.
God was from everlasting not man.Genesis 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Never the less you started out very good on what you wrote but in that writing you never god around to explaining how Isaiah 65:17-20 fits into you hypothesis of the end of days.
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isaiah 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.Kerwin,
I explained not only this but the next verse also
Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.This next verse is in the context of what you are questioning?
Why is there are new heavens and a new earth being created if there are people still existing?
I explained all that, go back and read my answer.The best I could quest at from what you wrote is that you believe the “thousand” year kingdom will have death and dying in it though not all the saints of that time will be subject to death. If that is what you believe then do you believe the words “new heaven” and “new earth” in Isaiah 65:17 are figurative?
The saints who were resurrected can never die again,
the Jews living in the kingdom are “saints in training”, followers of Christ. They are still considered saints because God knows beforehand they will be his at the end.
These saints are subject to death, for they are flesh and will live a good life for a hundred years, then die.
They will receive their reward at the 2nd resurrection.The words “new heaven and “new earth” are not figurative, symbolic of something, but a prophecy that jumps way to the end of the 1000 years.
It will really happen Kerwin as God spoke, but not until Christ’s work is finished, and at the end of the millennium, his work is done when he presents his bride to God, all clean and purified.
That one verse has got you puzzled with the rest of what it’s saying, and I am only guiding you to understand how God slips in a prophecy within a prophecy.Don’t just take those three verses, look at the whole chapter to see what I am explaining.
God slips in a summary, rolled into one line that the heavens and the earth will be made new,
then speaks of what happens before that.
Discern Kerwin.
Divide the truth.Journey,
My difficulty in understanding you as you were not explicit in what you meant which means I had to try to piece together and answer from your words. I voiced my conclusion when I said:
The best I could quest at from what you wrote is that you believe the “thousand” year kingdom will have death and dying in it though not all the saints of that time will be subject to death. If that is what you believe then do you believe the words “new heaven” and “new earth” in Isaiah 65:17 are figurative?
Am I understanding you correctly?
If not can you try to clarify what you meant.
Kerwin
To answer your question directly,
the answer is no.
The new heavens and the new earth is not figurative.Journey,
I am sorry I did not make myself clearer. Except for that is there anything else I have incorrect?
This passage is one that speaks of death and dying in the same breath as speaking of the new heaven and the new earth. There will sinners therein. This does not sound like the new heavens and the new earths I have heard of. Point of fact sinners seldom make it to one hundred years in this present earth and heaven.
Let those that have insight into this matter speak.
Hi Kerwin
The above is your opening post.
What is the new heaven and new earth you have heard of of?
How do you see it?, and when?
Maybe we can start there.Journey42,
Revelation 21:1Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 Peter 3:13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
I believe these two passages are speaking of the same place but Isaiah mentions a new heaven and a new earth in other places and I do not know if he is speaking of the same thing in any of them as I have not looked. I had assume so but that is where this thread came in.
Jourey42,
I think it comes into play after the 1000 years and has no death or dying in it, not any sinners. I also thought the Messianic age had not death or dying in it and no temptation, and so no sin, as Satan is bound at that time.
I believe these two passages are speaking of the same place but Isaiah mentions a new heaven and a new earth in other places and I do not know if he is speaking of the same thing in any of them as I have not looked. I had assume so but that is where this thread came in.
Hi Kerwin
Yes, it’s all the same New Heavens, and new earth spoken about. It can only happen once and for all.
Jourey42,
I think it comes into play after the 1000 years and has no death or dying in it, not any sinners. I also thought the Messianic age had not death or dying in it and no temptation, and so no sin, as Satan is bound at that time.
Kerwin
Your right about that, after the 1000 years.
The Messianic age is when Christ rules on earth with his saints. He will be ruling over flesh, so men will still exist, and will multiply and die for a thousand years, but will live a ripe old age.
It’s going to be so different to what we have now.
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