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Texas,
Thank you that was quite revealing of the spirit that lies within you. I don't think I will take any more time presently to engage in a conversation with you. Maybe someday when I sense a loving spirit within you.I wish you well though,
LUHi Texas,
You who have yet to find one verse that teaches what you teach about Jesus want to rebuke others who do that proper and careful research into the sacred words??Quote (Cindy @ May 10 2009,06:16) Kathi I must say, this is the first time I have heard some one say, the Father has a womb.
How do you suppose he impregnated himself, and how then was Jesus born?
As I said before, I feel no responsibility toward any one to prove anything; Paul said, you prove all things, and hold on to what is good.
If you feel what you believe is truth, go for it.Georg
Hi Georg,
You are right, the idea of GOD having a womb isn't familiar to us. He does speak about it figuratively though in this passage:Isa 46:3-4
3 “Listen to Me, O house of Jacob, And all the remnant of the house of Israel, You who have been borne by Me from birth And have been carried from the womb;
4 Even to your old age I will be the same, And even to your graying years I will bear you! I have done it, and I will carry you; And I will bear you and I will deliver you.
NASUAnyway, I believe that GOD truly delivered an offspring, however GOD could do that, before anything else came into being in the sense of completion. How He conceived I don't know but He has created somethings that reproduce asexually so I suppose that He could manage to reproduce without the aid of another. Remember that He is not specifically male or female and maybe He is both male and female although He is referred to by the male pronouns.
Think about it Georg. GOD always existed, then there came the very first thing to receive life apart from GOD. That “first thing” is called the “firstborn of all creation” not the “first-created of all creation” not the “first-fruit of all creation.” That first thing to receive life is called the firstBORN. I say that He came from the “womb” of GOD in a poetic kind of way and I mean it in a way that He was actually born by Him and not created by Him. We see that it was by the “Son” that the foundations of the earth were laid in Hebrews 1. So Firstborn = Son as I understand things. I believe that He was born on day 1 and announced as the Light.
Take care,
KathiQuote (Texas @ May 03 2009,23:41) Quote (Cindy @ April 19 2009,08:27) Just explain those scriptures.
You may have left the organization, but the organization has not left you.Georg
Cindy!
Was you to have the Holy Spirit on you, you would not need me to explain anything to you! You would already know it!Let me tell you something about the Organization you speak of! They have not left me, you say? They would after I went into one of their kingdom halls and puked all-over their seats! That's how I feel towards that Organization of devil worshippers now, because that is all they really are! Texas!
Texas Eventho Cindy is our users name, but it would be nice if you would us our rel names. Georg and Irene.
IreneQuote (Lightenup @ May 12 2009,16:29) [/quote]
Hi Georg,Think about it Georg. GOD always existed, then there came the very first thing to receive life apart from GOD. That “first thing” is called the “firstborn of all creation” not the “first-created of all creation” not the “first-fruit of all creation.” That first thing to receive life is called the firstBORN. I say that He came from the “womb” of GOD in a poetic kind of way and I mean it in a way that He was actually born by Him and not created by Him. We see that it was by the “Son” that the foundations of the earth were laid in Hebrews 1. So Firstborn = Son as I understand things. I believe that He was born on day 1 and announced as the Light.
Take care,
Kathi
KathiYou know the Son created all things, and I know you know that the angels were created before the earth; so how could the son have been born on day 1?
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 12 2009,02:44) Quote (Lightenup @ May 12 2009,16:29) [/quote]
Hi Georg,Think about it Georg. GOD always existed, then there came the very first thing to receive life apart from GOD. That “first thing” is called the “firstborn of all creation” not the “first-created of all creation” not the “first-fruit of all creation.” That first thing to receive life is called the firstBORN. I say that He came from the “womb” of GOD in a poetic kind of way and I mean it in a way that He was actually born by Him and not created by Him. We see that it was by the “Son” that the foundations of the earth were laid in Hebrews 1. So Firstborn = Son as I understand things. I believe that He was born on day 1 and announced as the Light.
Take care,
Kathi
KathiYou know the Son created all things, and I know you know that the angels were created before the earth; so how could the son have been born on day 1?
Georg
Hi Georg,
I believe that you have a theory that the angels existed before day one and then one angel led a revolt and the earth became formless and void. Is that correct?I just don't see it that way nor do I find that in scriptures. The way that I understand it is this:
GOD alone always existed in eternity past.
At a specific time He BEGAN the creation of non-living things and the BEGINNINGS of heaven and earth were created and were written of in Gen 1:1. (They had NOT been brought into a state of “being” or completion because the waters were not “separated” to make the heaven which surrounds us today and the earth was formless and void.)
After that, we see that GOD starts speaking and His first word is “Let there be Light.” I believe that was the first LIVING thing that was brought into existence apart from GOD. I believe that Light was a living thing and not a non-living thing. I also believe that Light was the Firstborn of all creation and the actual Son of GOD, born of GOD and not created.
After the Light, I believe, everything came into being (in a completed sense)…the angels-probably during day 1, the heavens during day 2, the earth during day 3, and then everything else comes into being after that. The heaven which makes up our atmosphere and space wasn't even named till day two and the earth's foundation was still being laid during day three when the earth gets its name. See the Proverbs passage below.
I don't believe that we are given details about the angels creation because the creation account was written for our benefit and not for the angel's benefit. I do not think that an angel led a revolt till after day six because GOD said that everything was “good.”
Prov 8:22-31
22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
(Light was there before any works were even completed)
23 “From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
(Light was there while the earth was still formless)
24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water.
(There was the deep before the Light but not depths-plural)
25 “Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;
26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world.
27 “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed,
29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
(Light was there before this happened on day two and three)
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
NASUDon't you think that it is interesting in the above account that Proverbs doesn't mention anything about the Light of day one and yet it speaks about the things that happened on day two and three of creation? I think that the Light was the “master workman” that was beside GOD who was daily GOD's delight, rejoiced always before GOD, rejoiced in the world and delighted in the sons of men. IMO
For your convenience I will include the first few days of creation here:
Gen 1:1-10
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.
10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
NASUSo, in summary, Gen 1:1 tells us of something that was beginning to be made and then continues to be made through day 3 of creation.
All things came into being through the Son of GOD and that refers to a completed state not an incomplete state.
This is my “theory” of which I believe. It is not a doctrine…it is a theory. I encourage you to put it to the test.
God bless,
KathiKathi
You have my book, you know what I say, you know what I believe, no need to repeat it all over again.
Georg
Georg,
I understand but this message board is not limited to just the two of us. There are many readers here that do not have your book. You seem not interested in challenging me further and that is fine if you do not want to put the time into it.
KathiKathi
I welcome a challenge, but you have to be more specific; give two or three points at a time.
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,06:38) Kathi You have my book, you know what I say, you know what I believe, no need to repeat it all over again.
Georg
Hi Georg,
Surely your opinions are not set in concrete?Quote (Lightenup @ May 12 2009,12:02) Quote (Cindy @ May 12 2009,02:44) Quote (Lightenup @ May 12 2009,16:29)
Hi Georg,Think about it Georg. GOD always existed, then there came the very first thing to receive life apart from GOD. That “first thing” is called the “firstborn of all creation” not the “first-created of all creation” not the “first-fruit of all creation.” That first thing to receive life is called the firstBORN. I say that He came from the “womb” of GOD in a poetic kind of way and I mean it in a way that He was actually born by Him and not created by Him. We see that it was by the “Son” that the foundations of the earth were laid in Hebrews 1. So Firstborn = Son as I understand things. I believe that He was born on day 1 and announced as the Light.
Take care,
Kathi
KathiYou know the Son created all things, and I know you know that the angels were created before the earth; so how could the son have been born on day 1?
Georg[/quote]
Hi Georg,
I believe that you have a theory that the angels existed before day one and then one angel led a revolt and the earth became formless and void. Is that correct?I just don't see it that way nor do I find that in scriptures. The way that I understand it is this:
GOD alone always existed in eternity past.
At a specific time He BEGAN the creation of non-living things and the BEGINNINGS of heaven and earth were created and were written of in Gen 1:1. (They had NOT been brought into a state of “being” or completion because the waters were not “separated” to make the heaven which surrounds us today and the earth was formless and void.)
After that, we see that GOD starts speaking and His first word is “Let there be Light.” I believe that was the first LIVING thing that was brought into existence apart from GOD. I believe that Light was a living thing and not a non-living thing. I also believe that Light was the Firstborn of all creation and the actual Son of GOD, born of GOD and not created.
After the Light, I believe, everything came into being (in a completed sense)…the angels-probably during day 1, the heavens during day 2, the earth during day 3, and then everything else comes into being after that. The heaven which makes up our atmosphere and space wasn't even named till day two and the earth's foundation was still being laid during day three when the earth gets its name. See the Proverbs passage below.
I don't believe that we are given details about the angels creation because the creation account was written for our benefit and not for the angel's benefit. I do not think that an angel led a revolt till after day six because GOD said that everything was “good.”
Prov 8:22-31
22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
(Light was there before any works were even completed)
23 “From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
(Light was there while the earth was still formless)
24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water.
(There was the deep before the Light but not depths-plural)
25 “Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;
26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world.
27 “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed,
29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
(Light was there before this happened on day two and three)
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
NASUDon't you think that it is interesting in the above account that Proverbs doesn't mention anything about the Light of day one and yet it speaks about the things that happened on day two and three of creation? I think that the Light was the “master workman” that was beside GOD who was daily GOD's delight, rejoiced always before GOD, rejoiced in the world and delighted in the sons of men. IMO
For your convenience I will include the first few days of creation here:
Gen 1:1-10
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.
10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
NASUSo, in summary, Gen 1:1 tells us of something that was beginning to be made and then continues to be made through day 3 of creation.
All things came into being through the Son of GOD and that refers to a completed state not an incomplete state.
This is my “theory” of which I believe. It is not a doctrine…it is a theory. I encourage you to put it to the test.
God bless,
Kathi
Ok Georg,
I don't agree that the angels existed before day one.
KathiKathy! Even I can answer that for you. Did the Angels or the Son's of God
not shouted for joy at the creation of the world. The already were created by YEshua (Jesus).
Job 38:4-7
verse 7 ” When the morning stars sang together , and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Cindy @ May 12 2009,16:35) Kathy! Even I can answer that for you. Did the Angels or the Son's of God
not shouted for joy at the creation of the world. The already were created by YEshua (Jesus).
Job 38:4-7
verse 7 ” When the morning stars sang together , and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
Here is the passage that you are referring to:Job 38:4-7
4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5 Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it?
6 “On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
NASUAs I pointed out in my post to Georg, the foundation was being marked out on day three. Therefore the angels were there by day three but not necessarily there before the earth was formless, before Light came.
Love, Kathi
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