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Is the King James Version wrong about the translation of Luke 10:18 or does it use an alternative translation?
Luke 10:18(KJV) reads:
Quote And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:18(ESV) reads:
Quote And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luke 10:18(NKJV) reads:
Quote And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
hi kerwin
i don't see the difference ,they all three say the same ting,but i not a expert in English,Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2009,12:17) hi kerwin
i don't see the difference ,they all three say the same ting,but i not a expert in English,
The King James state it was lightning that fell from heaven and not Satan while the other two state that Satan fell from heaven in the same way that lighting does.Some modern Jews teach that Satan is not a fallen angel.
I believe there is other New Testament Scripture that support the idea he is a fallen angel. Still, I find this point interesting.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2009,13:15) Hi KW,
Lightning strikes the ground in an instant.
I.E rather a rapid fall.
I agree but the King James Version does not state that Satan fell from heaven. It states that Jesus saw Satan during a lightning strike. I have seen people during lightning strikes as well. Of course it could be a mistranslation.It could instead be that I misunderstand the antiquated English used in the King James version.
2 Corinthians 11:14(KJV) reads:
Quote And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
That makes me think Satan is a fallen angel though “transformed” seems to be the wrong word.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2009,17:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2009,12:17) hi kerwin
i don't see the difference ,they all three say the same ting,but i not a expert in English,
The King James state it was lightning that fell from heaven and not Satan while the other two state that Satan fell from heaven in the same way that lighting does.Some modern Jews teach that Satan is not a fallen angel.
I believe there is other New Testament Scripture that support the idea he is a fallen angel. Still, I find this point interesting.
kerwinYou misquoted yourself, the first scripture you put up says “AS” lightening, then you say it says “WAS” lightening, quite a difference.
And yes, Satan's name used to be Lucifer, he became Satan when he rebelled against God, That is what the scripture you put up is all about, when Lucifer charged against God, trying to take his throne, he was repelled “AS” lightening back to earth.Terraricca is right, they all say the same.
Georg
George,
You came up with a third possible meaning of the King James statement in that Jesus could of witnessed Satan in the form of lightning falling from the sky.
My guess is that “as” has shifted its meaning over time or that the translators did a poor job of translating into proper English structure. The passage might possibly be currently correctly translated to I saw Satan falling as lightning falls from the sky. An action word is needed if “as” is used to compare the actions of the two.
“as” is an adverb while “like” is an adjective.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2009,18:50) Is the King James Version wrong about the translation of Luke 10:18 or does it use an alternative translation? Luke 10:18(KJV) reads:
Quote And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:18(ESV) reads:
Quote And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luke 10:18(NKJV) reads:
Quote And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Hi Kerwin:When someone repents, he is translated from the kingdom of darkness or satan's kingdom into the kingdom of God's dear son, and therefore, Jesus uses this allegory when the unclean spirits are cast out of men. And also, those who have rejected his Word will be judged by his Word.
Read this in this context:
Quote Luk 10:17 Then the seventy [fn] returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” Luk 10:18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather [fn] rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
And then this verse:
Quote Luk 10:15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. [fn] Also, satan fell from his exalted state when men rejected God's Word and consequently, they will be judged by this.
Quote Luk 10:16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” Quote Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2010,18:58) George, You came up with a third possible meaning of the King James statement in that Jesus could of witnessed Satan in the form of lightning falling from the sky.
My guess is that “as” has shifted its meaning over time or that the translators did a poor job of translating into proper English structure. The passage might possibly be currently correctly translated to I saw Satan falling as lightning falls from the sky. An action word is needed if “as” is used to compare the actions of the two.
“as” is an adverb while “like” is an adjective.
kerwinNo, it says, “AS”, meaning, as fast as lightening.
Georg
17The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” 18He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
I believe that what Jesus was saying after hearing the 72 talking all excited about what they had done is that the activities they had done bought satan racing into town as fast as lightning to help put a stop to it all.
Just my opinion – Wm
Marty,
You did not actually answer my question but I certainly enjoyed your well thought out interpretation of that passage.
If I understand correctly you are stating Jesus was speaking figuratively and not literally about Satan falling from heaven.
hi KW
2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2010,20:21) Marty, You did not actually answer my question but I certainly enjoyed your well thought out interpretation of that passage.
If I understand correctly you are stating Jesus was speaking figuratively and not literally about Satan falling from heaven.
Hi Kerwin:Yes, he was speaking firguratively relative to seeing him fall from heaven, but also, literally, man from his exalted state.
Here is another scripture which may shed some light:
Quote Mat 12:24 Now when the Pharisees heard [it] they said, “This [fellow] does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, [fn] the ruler of the demons.” Mat 12:25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
Mat 12:26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast [them] out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
And also,
Quote Mat 13:38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked [one]. Mat 13:39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2010,00:14) hi KW 2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
You need to be careful with scripture since you can make the error of believing what is stated figuratively as actual. I believe the angels that sinned committed blaspheme against the holy spirit and so have no hope of salvation. That lack of hope is the gloomiest dungeon I can think of and being denied that hope is being send to a very deep place.hi KW
they are lock up that what it means ,when they will be loose again look at revelation at the end of the 1000 years with there master Satan to do there final appearance before the will be trow in the lake of fire.kerwin
Do you really have an interest in understanding the truth?
Your questioning is silly and ridiculous. What do you actually believe?
Do you think Satan is an imagination?
Do you believe there are created spirit beings, we call angels?
Do you believe Jesus is the first, the beginning of God's creation?
Or are you here just to have fun, pretending?Georg
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 05 2010,04:31) hi KW
they are lock up that what it means ,when they will be loose again look at revelation at the end of the 1000 years with there master Satan to do there final appearance before the will be trow in the lake of fire.
I believe that they are bound in Revelations at the same time Satan is bound but I will have to look that one up to confirm as my memory is far from perfect.I do know that Revelations is a book full of symbolism which can confuse some people.
Quote (banana @ Jan. 05 2010,10:11) kerwin Do you really have an interest in understanding the truth?
Your questioning is silly and ridiculous. What do you actually believe?
Do you think Satan is an imagination?
Do you believe there are created spirit beings, we call angels?
Do you believe Jesus is the first, the beginning of God's creation?
Or are you here just to have fun, pretending?Georg
I believe what God states it true. I also believe their are many false teachers of law and thus false teachings. I believe that before accepting them as truth one needs to test them against God's nature. I believe the only way you can test them accurately is if God works through you to do so.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2010,11:52) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 05 2010,04:31) hi KW
they are lock up that what it means ,when they will be loose again look at revelation at the end of the 1000 years with there master Satan to do there final appearance before the will be trow in the lake of fire.
I believe that they are bound in Revelations at the same time Satan is bound but I will have to look that one up to confirm as my memory is far from perfect.I do know that Revelations is a book full of symbolism which can confuse some people.
I was reading Revelations this morning and I only read where the devil is placed in prison for 1000 years and then released at the end of that time. If there is a part that speaks of angels being released can you please direct me to it. Thank you.The thread asking about when Satan fell from heaven is probably more appropriate for this conversation as this thread is about the validity of the King James Version for a particular scripture.
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