Is the Bible the Word of God?

Participant

Hi Nick, the Bible says that there are 3 to whom we must give account. The Father, the Word (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. There are many Biblical accounts of the Holy Spirit being an identity in His own right, but as I said before, the 3 are one. There is no blasphemy coming from these lips/fingers.

August 8, 2006 at 3:44 am#23794

Participant

Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 08 2006,04:35)

Hi Oxy,
Can you give me chapter and verse?
Surely not the false rendering of 1 Jn 5.7?

August 8, 2006 at 4:01 am#23795

Participant

Hi O,
Here is what the bible says about the God to whom men must render account. Scripture also tells us it is Jesus who will be doing the work as he is “son of Man” and he does all things for God in the name of the Father God

Rom 2.5f
“.5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart (A)you are storing up wrath for yourself (B)in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6©who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7to those who by (D)perseverance in doing good seek for (E)glory and honor and (F)immortality, (G)eternal life;

8but to those who are (H)selfishly ambitious and (I)do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

9There will be (J)tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew (K)first and also of the Greek,

10but (L)glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew (M)first and also to the Greek.

11For (N)there is no partiality with God.

12For all who have sinned (O)without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

13for it is (P)not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do (Q)instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

15in that they show ®the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

16on the day when, (S)according to my gospel, (T)God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus”

Jn 5.22
” 22″For not even the Father judges anyone, but (A)He has given all judgment to the Son, “

Jn 5.27
” 27and He gave Him authority to (A)execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.”

No mention of three men have to give account to.
Only one, through Jesus.

August 8, 2006 at 5:09 am#23798

Participant

Yep, I was referring to 1 Jn 5:7. So if that verse is wrong I might as well throw my Bible away because it is unreliable.

The fact remains that there is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but that's kinda getting off the topic. My question is, can anyone show me in Scripture where/how the Bible got to be called the Word of God? I've seen a number of instances where Scripture is referred to as the words of God, but have yet to see anywhere where Scripture is called the Word of God.

Cheers

August 8, 2006 at 5:47 am#23800

Participant

Hi ,
I will meet you in the appropriate thread.
No we do not need to throw the bible away but only some perverted translations of the KJV.
Not even all the translations of the KJV contain it.

August 8, 2006 at 10:29 am#23802

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 07 2006,22:02)

Hi typrsn,
Jesus is a glorious vessel for the Spirit of God poured into him at the Jordan.[2Tim 2.20-21.]
So are we[2.Cor 4.7]

Nick,

Jesus' public ministry officially began when He was baptized by John at the river Jordan being 30 years of age (Luke 3:23) according to Jewish custom. He knew at the age of 12 He had to accomplish His father's business (Luke 2:49). That being said, Jesus was born the Son of God and was officially anointed by God for public ministry at the age of 30.

The we that Paul is referring to in 2 Cor. 4:7 are he and Timothy. The treasure that Paul is referring to is “the light of the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ”. He also mentions this in 2 Cor. 2:14. Please read beginning at 2 Cor. 1:1 and see the proper context of what the apostle is saying. Please also see passages such as Acts 13:47 and Is. 42:6,7. We must not mistakenly equate the “we” to refer to all of the church and the “treasure” to the Holy Ghost. That is not what Paul is teaching here.

August 8, 2006 at 11:05 am#23803

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 07 2006,22:45)

Hi t,
There is apparent conflict between the two statements of yours below.
In one you show that God has manifested IN Christ Jesus which I agree with.
In the second you claim they are the same being.

Which is true?

Are they one being in two forms as modalism and trinity theorists propose
Or was God IN Christ as scripture tells us?
Your words:

” He has manifested Himself in the man Jesus Christ permanently (Heb. 1:4: 2 Cor. 4:4,6). For Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodliy (Col. 2:9).”

” Father and Son are not two persons, but one God existing in two ways simultaneously”.[/quote]

Nick,

There is no conflict in what I have stated. Trinity theorists do not propose that Father and Son are two manifestations of the one God. They believe the Father and Son are two distinct eternal persons with equal power and authority. According to my understanding of the scriptures, God did not have a son until His Spirit came upon Mary and conceived Him in her womb. Prior to that, the Son of God existed in His Mind by foreknowledge and the church was chosen in His Son by foreknowledge as well. This is related to the mystery of His will; according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself (Ephes. 1:9). This conflicts with the trinity theory. I did a little bit of study on modalism (not a lot) since Semmy said I was one. The best understanding of modalism I could find that is in line with my belief is the monarchian persuasion of modalism. Although (due to time constraints) I have not read a lot about it.

There is no conflict in the scriptures that I've cited. Nor is there conflict in my interpretation of them. Jesus Christ is the Son of God who is God Himself manifest in the flesh (now glorified) and will exist as God throughout eternity.

It seems that the conflict between my understanding and yours is…when did God get in Him (if I can say it that way). You seem (I'm not quite sure that's why I say seem) to be saying that God got in Jesus at His baptism. If that is the case, that's where we disagree. Since He was born the Son of God that's when He was divine. Not at baptism.

August 8, 2006 at 11:07 am#23804

Participant

Hi T,

So the earthen vesssels are the apostles
The power mentioned in ve 7 is of God.
The power is the Holy Spirit power and not human power.

“1Therefore, since we have this (A)ministry, as we (B)received mercy, we Âdo not lose heart,
2but we have renounced the (D)things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or (E)adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth (F)commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3And even if our (G)gospel is (H)veiled, it is veiled to (I)those who are perishing,

4in whose case (J)the god of (K)this world has (L)blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the (M)light of the gospel of the (N)glory of Christ, who is the (O)image of God.

5For we (P)do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.

6For God, who said, “(Q)Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has Âshone in our hearts to give the (S)Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

7But we have this treasure in (T)earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of (U)the power will be of God and not from ourselves;

8we are (V)afflicted in every way, but not (W)crushed; (X)perplexed, but not despairing;

9(Y)persecuted, but not (Z)forsaken; (AA)struck down, but not destroyed;

10(AB)always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that (AC)the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

11For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

12So death works in us, but life in you. “

August 8, 2006 at 11:55 am#23805

Participant

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 08 2006,02:01)

T, I'm going to need some Tylenol pretty quick here.

You side-stepped a direct question. I didn't ask if you believed in denominationalism.
I asked if you were or subscribe to the beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals. So you're a Modalist, fine.
No one like double-talk around here so just tell the truth.

Listen, you are MISTRANSLATING THE WORD MANIFEST. When Yahweh MANIFESTED
Himself to Moses in the burning bush, did He BECOME a burning bush? No. Read what it
says and then get a dictionary to see what manifest means vs incarnation. The latter of
which you are trying to replace for word manifest. God is NOT a man nor did He ever become
a man, period. Even after his ascention to Heaven, the Lord Jesus is referred to as a man
in scripture. Also scripture says there is but ONE mediator between God and man, THE MAN Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5) Now you can't be in the place of God and then at the same time be mediating between God and man. Its not only silly, its illogical and NOT what scripture says.

You completely steered away from addressing this verse or do you think John was lying?

“No one has EVER SEEN GOD, but if we love one another, God lives in us and His love is made complete in us. ” [1 John 4:12]

This was written by the apostle whom the Lord Jesus loved, ate with, slept beside and he says NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD. He didn't add, that He's only invisible until he makes Himself visible! Why would he make such a statement if Jesus was God in human flesh?

Also to be clear, Adam did not have a “natural father” either. He was not born but created and Christ is called the LAST Adam. 1 Corn 15:45. Yes, Jesus was begotten but you have to have a BEGETTER in order for this to happen. Scripture says God the Father begot Jesus. God had to be here first for that to happen.

The Lord Jesus and the Father are not ONE GOD. Nick has shown you the contradictions of your OWN scriptural citings and comments.

Here's more:

There is an important difference between the two.

Matthew 28:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority (not “power”) is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Jesus was given authority [“exousia” – Gk]. Authority comes only from a higher source. It must be delegated. Authority cannot exist unless there is a higher source in which it can be based. Like links in a chain, positions of authority are completely dependent upon the higher links. Cut one of the higher links and all support is cut off for any links below.

Soldiers understand authority and rank. Each rank, or position of authority, rests upon the ranks above it. Authority always comes from above. Jesus was given authority. Jesus could not have been given authority unless there was someone higher to give it to Him. That higher source was Yahweh not himself.

Last Point:

Answer these two questions from scripture please, (without trying to use qualifiiers not found in the Bible)…..

1.) Does the Lord Jesus have a God?

2.) Does God the Father have a god?

You haven't answered a straight question yet. Let's see how you do with these!

Semmy

Semmy,

You have a very accusatory spirit and seem to know more about me than I know about myself. Please say what you desire to say without being accusatory.

You did not ask whether I subscribe to the beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals. That may have been what you meant, but that is certainly not what you said. You asked “Are you a Oneness Pentecostal”. The reason I answered you the way that I did is become I am not a “Oneness Pentecostal”. I am what God said I am and He did not call me a “Oneness Pentecostal”. The reason that I spoke out against denominationalism is because people tend to identify people improperly by lumping them into a group. For example, just because I belive in baptism by immersion that does not make me a Baptist. The Oneness Pentecostal denominations (there are many) have many beliefs that I disagree with. Then you accuse me of double-talking and lying. Please, please take heed to your spirit. You can communicate effectively with people about what you believe to be true without attacking them. Paul distinctly told the church not to lie to one another seeing that the old man has been put off.

Please do not say that God cannot exist as a human and be the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient God at the same time. Did He tell you that He couldn't? God is not a quantitive being. I'm sure you know that Godhead is better understood to mean Godhood. My understanding of what Paul said in Col. 2:9 is that He (Jesus) gives complete expression of God (not just verbally either). No one can give complete expression of God but God Himself. Jesus Christ is the express image of His person (Heb. 1:4). God said on numerous occasions in the Old Testament that only He could be and do certain things that Jesus did.

If you decide to respond in an accusatory way, that's fine. That's your choice. I will not respond if you do.

August 8, 2006 at 12:14 pm#23806

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2006,12:07)

Hi T,

So the earthen vesssels are the apostles
The power mentioned in ve 7 is of God.
The power is the Holy Spirit power and not human power.

“1Therefore, since we have this (A)ministry, as we (B)received mercy, we ©do not lose heart,
2but we have renounced the (D)things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or (E)adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth (F)commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3And even if our (G)gospel is (H)veiled, it is veiled to (I)those who are perishing,

4in whose case (J)the god of (K)this world has (L)blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the (M)light of the gospel of the (N)glory of Christ, who is the (O)image of God.

5For we (P)do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.

6For God, who said, “(Q)Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has ®shone in our hearts to give the (S)Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

7But we have this treasure in (T)earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of (U)the power will be of God and not from ourselves;

8we are (V)afflicted in every way, but not (W)crushed; (X)perplexed, but not despairing;

9(Y)persecuted, but not (Z)forsaken; (AA)struck down, but not destroyed;

10(AB)always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that (AC)the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

11For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

12So death works in us, but life in you. “

Nick,

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing so I'll post.

Again, according to the context, Paul is referring to himself and Timothy as the “we” in 2 Cor. 4:7 as he is referring to he and Barnabas as the “us” in Acts 13:46,47. They were sent with authority by the Holy Ghost in Acts 13:1-4. If the treasure is the Holy Ghost as many believe, then the Corinthian church didn't have it. He cannot be referring to the Holy Ghost. Again, the treasure he is referring to is the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (2 Cor. 4:4-6). Notice the “'we”s, “you”s and “us”s that he uses.

August 8, 2006 at 2:59 pm#23808

seminarian

Participant

Hi T,

Still waiting for a reply.

Last Point:

Answer these two questions from scripture please, (without trying to use qualifiiers not found in the Bible)…..

1.) Does the Lord Jesus have a God?

2.) Does God the Father have a god?

You haven't answered a straight question yet. Let's see how you do with these!

Semmy

August 8, 2006 at 4:53 pm#23814

Participant

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 08 2006,15:59)

Hi T,

Still waiting for a reply.

Last Point:

Answer these two questions from scripture please, (without trying to use qualifiiers not found in the Bible)…..

1.) Does the Lord Jesus have a God?

2.) Does God the Father have a god?

You haven't answered a straight question yet. Let's see how you do with these!

Semmy

Semmy,

I sincerely apologize. I overlooked this aspect of your post. It was not done intentionally.

1) Yes, the Lord Jesus does have a God. That is clear from Heb. 1:9; John 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 1 Cor. 15:27,28; 2 Cor. 11:31, etc.
2) No, God the Father does not have a God.

Now that I've answered your questions, please explain to me why Jesus is called God by God in places like Heb. 1:8 and you refuse to concur with God and call Him God. You are not able to grasp this truth. How in the world did God purchase the church with His own blood? (Acts 20:28). All the seminary training in the world won't help anyone understand this. Flesh and blood does not reveal such (Matt. 16:17). God's church is built on the revelation that comes from God, not man (Ephes. 2:20; 1 Pet. 1:10-12; 2 Pet. 1:20,21). This debate as to who Jesus is, is no new debate. I don't need to tell you that it is one that has been going on for years. Men will be ever learning, but never able to come unto the knowledge of the truth (2 Tim. 3:7).

But that still leaves the question: Why does the New Testaent make a distinction at times? The answer to this goes back to the dual nature of Jesus. In the capacity of being fully man, He was distinct from God. Not just distinct from the Father but from being God at all. This is why we can see references to the God of Jesus Christ (Matt. 27:46; John 20:17; Eph. 1:17). This is obviously not the God of God. It is the God of a man. Jesus is called a man over and over (Acts 2:22; 13:38; I Tim 2:5). As a man, there were things He did not know (Mark 13:32), there were things He could not do (Mark 6:5), He could only be in one place at one time (John 16:7), He could be tempted (Heb 4:15), He could thirst (John 19:28), and He could die (John 19:33). So from this point of view He was distinct from God, and could be spoken of that way. But from another point of view He was fully God and could be called such (John 20:28; I Tim 3:16; I John 5:20). When we see a separate reference it is always something like: “God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.” What you never see is: “God the Father and God the Son.” It is always God and man, Spirit and flesh, God the Father and the Son of God. As I Timothy 2:5 puts it, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

August 8, 2006 at 6:53 pm#23816

Participant

How far we have strayed…. *sigh*

The original topic was “Is the Bible the Word of God?”

I asked this question because we have traditionally called the Bible the Word of God, but I can't find Scripture to back this up. I can see where Jesus is called the Word of God and I can see where a “word” (message) was spoken in given situations, but the Bible refers to itself as Scriptures or the words of God.

This is a serious question and I would really like someone to show me in Scripture why the Bible is called the Word of God… please?

August 8, 2006 at 7:37 pm#23818

Participant

Hi O,
The bible does not state anywhere that it, the collection of writings, is “THE WORD OF GOD”

However Man cannot live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. Men were under the power of the Spirit as they wrote the words as from the mouth of God. Those words are pure and perfect despite the efforts of men to hide that pure beauty.

Do you have any doubts that these words written in the book are the Words of God?

August 8, 2006 at 7:46 pm#23820

epistemaniac

Participant

Jesus plainly calls the OT the “word of God”:
(Mat 15:5-6 NASB) “But you say, 'Whoever shall say to his father or mother, “Anything of mine you might have been helped by has been given to God,” {6} he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

Also, Jesus considered His words to be the Word of God;

(Luke 8:4-21 NASB) And when a great multitude were coming together, and those from the various cities were journeying to Him, He spoke by way of a parable: {5} “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road; and it was trampled under foot, and the birds of the air ate it up. {6} “And other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. {7} “And other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it, and choked it out. {8} “And other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great.” As He said these things, He would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” {9} And His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable might be. {10} And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, in order that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND. {11} “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. {12} “And those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they may not believe and be saved. {13} “And those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. {14} “And the seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. {15} “And the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance. {16} “Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed; but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light. {17} “For nothing is hidden that shall not become evident, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light. {18} “Therefore take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him shall more be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.” {19} And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd. {20} And it was reported to Him, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You.” {21} But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

(Luke 11:19-28 NASB) “And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. {20} “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. {21} “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own homestead, his possessions are undisturbed; {22} but when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied, and distributes his plunder. {23} “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters. {24} “When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' {25} “And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. {26} “Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.” {27} And it came about while He said these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice, and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts at which You nursed.” {28} But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it.”

Now, Jesus promised His disciples that when He ascended He would send the Holy Spirit to them in such a way that they would recal His words accurately and recount them to others accurately;

(John 16:1-4 NASB) “These things I have spoken to you, that you may be kept from stumbling. {2} “They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. {3} “And these things they will do, because they have not known the Father, or Me. {4} “But these things I have spoken to you, that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.”

Peter, at Pentecost, immediately begins to recount to those present the sayings and activities of Jesus. This he calls the “word of God”;
(Acts 4:31 NASB) And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

Thus, we move from the OT as being the Word of God, to Jesus' teachings being the word of God, to the disciples preaching the word of God, to these “sermons” etc being faithfully captuered in written form by the writers of the NT.

Luke tells us that, for instance, that both Paul and Barnabas' words are the word of God;
(Acts 13:46 NASB) And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.”

Paul's words are called the word of God again here;
(Acts 18:11 NASB) And he settled there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

(2 Cor 4:1-4 NASB) Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, {2} but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. {3} And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, {4} in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

So, the progression is that Jesus calls the OT the word of God, and that Jesus' words are the very word of God, and thus, in so far as the disciples accurately recalled those words and relayed them to us via their writings, these writings are, de facto, the very word of God.

blessings

August 8, 2006 at 9:25 pm#23830

Participant

Hi O,

In context
“6For God, who said, “(Q)Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has ®shone in our hearts to give the (S)Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

7But we have this treasure in (T)earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of (U)the power will be of God and not from ourselves;”

So the apostles are vessels for the One who has shone in their hearts to give them understandings which they preach as the gospel. The One whom they share and that gives light is the Spirit of Christ and not their own weak earthly vessels which are only containers of that Spirit power.

The apostles giftings were unique to them in Christ and others had other giftings so you would not expect all at Corinth to share the ministry powers of Paul and the other apostles. Paul exulted in his role as a vessel for the wonderful preaching power of God within him.

The listeners also would have shared in other spiritual treasures\giftings from the same Spirit[1Cor 12]

August 8, 2006 at 10:34 pm#23833

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2006,20:37)

Hi O,
The bible does not state anywhere that it, the collection of writings, is “THE WORD OF GOD”

Do you have any doubts that these words written in the book are the Words of God?

Nick, thanks for your reply. I have no doubt at all that all Scripture was given by the Holy Spirit, and we should live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. That's my point exactly. You rightly said that the Bible does not call Scripture the Word of God, but it does call Jesus the Word of God. If you read what Epistemaniac wrote with this in mind you will see that the passages he quoted refer to Jesus rather than the Bible.

Remember that the Word of God is living and sharper than any two edged sword. That's Jesus my friend, not the Bible.

August 8, 2006 at 10:34 pm#23834

Participant

epistemaniac, thanks for your reply, but if you take the Scripture you quoted with the understanding that the Bible calles Jesus the Word of God you will see that it reads quite differently.

August 8, 2006 at 10:50 pm#23836