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Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,23:55) Yes, and Lot was righteous. We can see his righteousness as he offers his daughters to be raped.
Sorry, jumping on the band wagon here….……and then Lot committed incestuous sex with those same daughter's so that they could become preganant! The bible says that Lot was drunk and so therefore he didn't know what was going on (riiiiiiiight). I call big-time “bull” on that one! I have been falling-down drunk before and would know if someone “raped” me!!
Those who hold that God is just and the bible is true must see problems with what we are bringing here? Can it all really be explained away?
Mandy
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,06:54) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 05 2008,10:16) 94xxxx wrote: Quote 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: AND
Quote Also, Jesus corrected a mistake that Moses made … . These two statements are contradictory, in my opinion. Can I read what Moses wrote about divorce and consider it inspired by God or not? Or more appropriate to the topic, can I read Leviticus 25:44-46 and consider it inspired by God or not?
No, I said there is a difference by the words “given by the inspiration of God” and “inspired by God”. Jesus corrected what Moses taught relative to divorce, and that is what we as Christians follow.This just shows that someone who is a minister of God can make a mistake, and Moses made a mistake.
The Apostle Paul had to correct the Apostle Peter also.
If you read what Moses said about divorce before Jesus corrected his mistake, then you could believe that it was inspired by God, but since Jesus corrected the mistake, you know that he made a mistake and you know why Moses made the mistake because Jesus told you that he allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people's heart.
How many mistakes did Paul make?Was this one of them:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 09 2008,06:15) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,06:54) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 05 2008,10:16) 94xxxx wrote: Quote 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: AND
Quote Also, Jesus corrected a mistake that Moses made … . These two statements are contradictory, in my opinion. Can I read what Moses wrote about divorce and consider it inspired by God or not? Or more appropriate to the topic, can I read Leviticus 25:44-46 and consider it inspired by God or not?
No, I said there is a difference by the words “given by the inspiration of God” and “inspired by God”. Jesus corrected what Moses taught relative to divorce, and that is what we as Christians follow.This just shows that someone who is a minister of God can make a mistake, and Moses made a mistake.
The Apostle Paul had to correct the Apostle Peter also.
If you read what Moses said about divorce before Jesus corrected his mistake, then you could believe that it was inspired by God, but since Jesus corrected the mistake, you know that he made a mistake and you know why Moses made the mistake because Jesus told you that he allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people's heart.
How many mistakes did Paul make?Was this one of them:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
No, this is not a mistake. The Apostle Paul saw it as disprectful for a woman to usurp authority over her husband. In a Christian marriage, the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. It is the husband's responsibility to teach his wife the Word of God. Therefore, if she had a question about something that was being taught, the Apostle Paul was saying that she should ask her husband. If he did not know that answer to her question, then he could ask the question for the both of them.Does this mean that a woman cannot be a pastor? No it does not. She can be as long as she shows respect for her husband by not ursurping authority over him.
Hi What is true:
There is further discussion on this topic here:
94xxxx,
My mistake for going off-topic. The real question in my last post was:
How many mistakes did Paul make?
Given that you believe that Moses made a mistake – a mistake that has been recorded as Holy Scripture spoken by the LORD Himself – you open the door to the possibility that there are other mistakes in scripture. Do you not?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 09 2008,04:32) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,23:55) Yes, and Lot was righteous. We can see his righteousness as he offers his daughters to be raped.
Sorry, jumping on the band wagon here….……and then Lot committed incestuous sex with those same daughter's so that they could become preganant! The bible says that Lot was drunk and so therefore he didn't know what was going on (riiiiiiiight). I call big-time “bull” on that one! I have been falling-down drunk before and would know if someone “raped” me!!
Those who hold that God is just and the bible is true must see problems with what we are bringing here? Can it all really be explained away?
Mandy
That Lot had sex with his daughters is apparently true, but the way that these scriptures describe that it happened is very difficult to understand.Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,16:16) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 09 2008,06:15) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,06:54) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 05 2008,10:16) 94xxxx wrote: Quote 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: AND
Quote Also, Jesus corrected a mistake that Moses made … . These two statements are contradictory, in my opinion. Can I read what Moses wrote about divorce and consider it inspired by God or not? Or more appropriate to the topic, can I read Leviticus 25:44-46 and consider it inspired by God or not?
No, I said there is a difference by the words “given by the inspiration of God” and “inspired by God”. Jesus corrected what Moses taught relative to divorce, and that is what we as Christians follow.This just shows that someone who is a minister of God can make a mistake, and Moses made a mistake.
The Apostle Paul had to correct the Apostle Peter also.
If you read what Moses said about divorce before Jesus corrected his mistake, then you could believe that it was inspired by God, but since Jesus corrected the mistake, you know that he made a mistake and you know why Moses made the mistake because Jesus told you that he allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people's heart.
How many mistakes did Paul make?Was this one of them:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
No, this is not a mistake. The Apostle Paul saw it as disprectful for a woman to usurp authority over her husband. In a Christian marriage, the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. It is the husband's responsibility to teach his wife the Word of God. Therefore, if she had a question about something that was being taught, the Apostle Paul was saying that she should ask her husband. If he did not know that answer to her question, then he could ask the question for the both of them.Does this mean that a woman cannot be a pastor? No it does not. She can be as long as she shows respect for her husband by not ursurping authority over him.
What? It boldly states “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak”. No ifs, ands or buts. You don't think much of the bible do you?Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 09 2008,10:16) 94xxxx, My mistake for going off-topic. The real question in my last post was:
How many mistakes did Paul make?
Given that you believe that Moses made a mistake – a mistake that has been recorded as Holy Scripture spoken by the LORD Himself – you open the door to the possibility that there are other mistakes in scripture. Do you not?
If Paul says something that doesn't line up with the scriptures than it will be a mistake, but no, I don't know of any mistakes that he made.He was an Apostle sent by God who had the Holy Spirit dwelling within him meaning that God was speaking through him. In the Acts of the Apostles we see that God was confirming what he was teaching with signs and miracles. God will not confirm something that is a lie.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:50) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,16:16) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 09 2008,06:15) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,06:54) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Sep. 05 2008,10:16) 94xxxx wrote: Quote 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: AND
Quote Also, Jesus corrected a mistake that Moses made … . These two statements are contradictory, in my opinion. Can I read what Moses wrote about divorce and consider it inspired by God or not? Or more appropriate to the topic, can I read Leviticus 25:44-46 and consider it inspired by God or not?
No, I said there is a difference by the words “given by the inspiration of God” and “inspired by God”. Jesus corrected what Moses taught relative to divorce, and that is what we as Christians follow.This just shows that someone who is a minister of God can make a mistake, and Moses made a mistake.
The Apostle Paul had to correct the Apostle Peter also.
If you read what Moses said about divorce before Jesus corrected his mistake, then you could believe that it was inspired by God, but since Jesus corrected the mistake, you know that he made a mistake and you know why Moses made the mistake because Jesus told you that he allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people's heart.
How many mistakes did Paul make?Was this one of them:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
No, this is not a mistake. The Apostle Paul saw it as disprectful for a woman to usurp authority over her husband. In a Christian marriage, the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. It is the husband's responsibility to teach his wife the Word of God. Therefore, if she had a question about something that was being taught, the Apostle Paul was saying that she should ask her husband. If he did not know that answer to her question, then he could ask the question for the both of them.Does this mean that a woman cannot be a pastor? No it does not. She can be as long as she shows respect for her husband by not ursurping authority over him.
What? It boldly states “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak”. No ifs, ands or buts. You don't think much of the bible do you?
Hi KJ:Quote 1Cr 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1Cr 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self‑seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Cr 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1Cr 13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Cr 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Hi KJ:
If you do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within, then who is it that is leading you to all truths?
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,20:54) Hi KJ: If you do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within, then who is it that is leading you to all truths?
Your claim of the “holy spirit within” means very little. This supposed “holy spirit” leads WJ to believe Yahweh, Jesus and the HS are a trinity, while the same supposed spirit leads Nick and t8 to think differently.Read through the “Believers' Place” board and tell me who truly has the “holy spirit within”. I'm very interested to see who you will say has this “spirit”.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,20:47) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:50) [quote=942767,Sep. 08
What? It boldly states “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak”. No ifs, ands or buts. You don't think much of the bible do you?
Hi KJ:Quote 1Cr 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1Cr 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self‑seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Cr 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1Cr 13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Cr 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Why are you dodging? Paul plainly says1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.You say women can be pastors. How so? If they are not to speak in church, according to Paul, how can they be a pastor? Are you saying you have more of the “holy spirit” than Paul?
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,14:37) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,20:47) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:50) [quote=942767,Sep. 08
What? It boldly states “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak”. No ifs, ands or buts. You don't think much of the bible do you?
Hi KJ:Quote 1Cr 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1Cr 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self‑seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Cr 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1Cr 13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Cr 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Why are you dodging? Paul plainly says1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.You say women can be pastors. How so? If they are not to speak in church, according to Paul, how can they be a pastor? Are you saying you have more of the “holy spirit” than Paul?
Hi KJ:I am not dodging anything. When I have a question about anything in the scriptures, I go to God in prayer and ask for understanding. You just seem to want to argue to prove me wrong. This is a topic on which God has given me the understanding that I have given.
If all women were not to speak in the church what about Phoebe who was a deconness.
Quote Phebe / Phoebe (“shining, bright”)
Phebe was a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae. Paul sent salutations to her. It is believed she is the women who carried Paul's letters to the Romans.
Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.Or this woman:
Quote Prisca / Priscilla (“simplicity”)
Priscilla was the wife of Aquila. Together they ministered together as a team from their home showing that the ministry of women was readily accepted.
Acts 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. 18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Romans 16: 3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the GentilesAnd this is what the scripture states about all who are in the Lord:
Quote Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ JesusBut in a Christian marriage relationship the Husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. It was out of respect for husband that the woman was not to ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God instead of asking her husband.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,22:25) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,14:37) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,20:47) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:50) [quote=942767,Sep. 08
What? It boldly states “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak”. No ifs, ands or buts. You don't think much of the bible do you?
Hi KJ:Quote 1Cr 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1Cr 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self‑seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Cr 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1Cr 13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Cr 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Why are you dodging? Paul plainly says1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.You say women can be pastors. How so? If they are not to speak in church, according to Paul, how can they be a pastor? Are you saying you have more of the “holy spirit” than Paul?
Hi KJ:I am not dodging anything. When I have a question about anything in the scriptures, I go to God in prayer and ask for understanding. You just seem to want to argue to prove me wrong. This is a topic on which God has given me the understanding that I have given.
If all women were not to speak in the church what about Phoebe who was a deconness.
Quote Phebe / Phoebe (“shining, bright”)
Phebe was a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae. Paul sent salutations to her. It is believed she is the women who carried Paul's letters to the Romans.
Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.Or this woman:
Quote Prisca / Priscilla (“simplicity”)
Priscilla was the wife of Aquila. Together they ministered together as a team from their home showing that the ministry of women was readily accepted.
Acts 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. 18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Romans 16: 3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the GentilesAnd this is what the scripture states about all who are in the Lord:
Quote Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ JesusBut in a Christian marriage relationship the Husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. It was out of respect for husband that the woman was not to ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God instead of asking her husband.
So you are basically admitting the bible has yet another contradiction. Why not just come out and admit as much?Hi WhatIsTrue:
I believe that I am wrong in stating that Moses made a mistake in his teaching about divorce in the OT. I believe what is correct is that God allowed Moses teaching about divorce in the OT because of the hardness of the peoples heart. God also allowed men to have several wives in the OT, but by the same scripture that Jesus quoted this was not God's intent. He made one woman “Eve” for Adam, and the scripture states:
Quote Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunderBut this is in a Christian marriage where God has “joined the two together”.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,15:38) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,22:25) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,14:37) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,20:47) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,12:50) [quote=942767,Sep. 08
What? It boldly states “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak”. No ifs, ands or buts. You don't think much of the bible do you?
Hi KJ:Quote 1Cr 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1Cr 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self‑seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Cr 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1Cr 13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Cr 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Why are you dodging? Paul plainly says1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.You say women can be pastors. How so? If they are not to speak in church, according to Paul, how can they be a pastor? Are you saying you have more of the “holy spirit” than Paul?
Hi KJ:I am not dodging anything. When I have a question about anything in the scriptures, I go to God in prayer and ask for understanding. You just seem to want to argue to prove me wrong. This is a topic on which God has given me the understanding that I have given.
If all women were not to speak in the church what about Phoebe who was a deconness.
Quote Phebe / Phoebe (“shining, bright”)
Phebe was a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae. Paul sent salutations to her. It is believed she is the women who carried Paul's letters to the Romans.
Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.Or this woman:
Quote Prisca / Priscilla (“simplicity”)
Priscilla was the wife of Aquila. Together they ministered together as a team from their home showing that the ministry of women was readily accepted.
Acts 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. 18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Romans 16: 3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the GentilesAnd this is what the scripture states about all who are in the Lord:
Quote Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ JesusBut in a Christian marriage relationship the Husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. It was out of respect for husband that the woman was not to ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God instead of asking her husband.
So you are basically admitting the bible has yet another contradiction. Why not just come out and admit as much?
No KJ:I am not admitting that at all. I am saying is that you are making statements and accusations without having all the facts. You are just looking at that scripture and making an assumption that Paul is referring to all women. It isn't so. He is speaking about married women. I have given you and example of women who speak in the church. I also have some experience in the church today where I know that women have been used by God as prophetesses and pastors.
If you have a question about my understanding on anything in the bible, ask and I will give you my understanding. If you want to disagree, you are free to disagree, but until God shows me that what I am teaching is not right, what I have given is my understanding.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 09 2008,14:33) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,20:54) Hi KJ: If you do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within, then who is it that is leading you to all truths?
Your claim of the “holy spirit within” means very little. This supposed “holy spirit” leads WJ to believe Yahweh, Jesus and the HS are a trinity, while the same supposed spirit leads Nick and t8 to think differently.Read through the “Believers' Place” board and tell me who truly has the “holy spirit within”. I'm very interested to see who you will say has this “spirit”.
I've asked this very same question of Gene and just now of Kathi.Of course the answer will be that they have the Spirit leading THEM. That's a no brainer…..
Obviously, if none of us can agree and all of us say the Spirit is leading us – well – we have a problem!
Mandy
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2008,11:36) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 09 2008,04:32) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,23:55) Yes, and Lot was righteous. We can see his righteousness as he offers his daughters to be raped.
Sorry, jumping on the band wagon here….……and then Lot committed incestuous sex with those same daughter's so that they could become preganant! The bible says that Lot was drunk and so therefore he didn't know what was going on (riiiiiiiight). I call big-time “bull” on that one! I have been falling-down drunk before and would know if someone “raped” me!!
Those who hold that God is just and the bible is true must see problems with what we are bringing here? Can it all really be explained away?
Mandy
That Lot had sex with his daughters is apparently true, but the way that these scriptures describe that it happened is very difficult to understand.
Indeed. Very difficult to understand. The girls wanted to “carry on the family name” and so they got their Dad wasted and ……. in the middle of the night!!And Lot was “unaware” – hmmmm – sure he was!
Bro 94, there are so many things that are hard to understand that seem so blatantly wrong in the OT. I admire your patience in praying about what you don't understand and waiting for answers. But truely, to some of these problems there seems no righteous answer.
Lot had sex with his daughter's way after the law was given that such relations were evil/sin. Was being drunk out of his noggen enough of an excuse that God would forgive him?
Mandy
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 08 2008,23:04) No KJ: I am not admitting that at all. I am saying is that you are making statements and accusations without having all the facts. You are just looking at that scripture and making an assumption that Paul is referring to all women. It isn't so. He is speaking about married women. I have given you and example of women who speak in the church. I also have some experience in the church today where I know that women have been used by God as prophetesses and pastors.
So if a women chooses to get married, she must give up here position of pastor?Do pastors teach? Do they have authority in their church?
1Ti 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1Ti 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1Ti 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.I'm sorry 94, but you are going against Paul's teaching. I cannot help the bible teaches opposing things, but Paul has said at least twice that women should be silent. In Timothy above, he says nothing about a married woman.
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