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Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,19:11) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,10:02) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:35) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:33) Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2008,21:46) Quote What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach. –stu.
Of course, you're wrong again.
Quote Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Obviously, they all had sin. So, your understanding of scripture is a bit twisted. No one dared throw a stone. They would have been saying they themselves were perfect. Jesus' reasoning and teaching methods astounded many.
The passage this comes from was added later.
Was David who committed adultery with Bathsheba stoned to death or did God forgive him when he repented?
Well considering that David should never have been a Hebrew king (he was a Moabite), its hard to say. The bible is so full of conflicts we can never know if the supposed laws against adultery were really in place before David or not.
OK KJ:Tell God and the Jews why David should never have been king, and maybe they will revoke all of this for your sake. It is true that David's grandmother was a Moabitess.
The Ten Commandments including the law pertaining to adultery was in place at the time of King David and is still in place. God's law is eternal.
Then who makes the laws of God? Was the Torah wrong?Deu 23:3 “No Ammonite or Moabite may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of them may enter the assembly of the LORD forever
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,19:26) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,10:04) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:49) Hi: Quote Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”NIV translates this verse as follows:
Quote Exd 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
Exd 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
So its ok to beat slaves since they are property, and thus less than human?
Hi KJ:Your issue with these scriptures before I quoted the NIV was that the salve owner would not be punished if the slave continued to live for a day or two. Now that I show you that this was mistranslated you want to switch your complaint to the fact that the slave owner was allowed to punish his slaves. The scripture does not say for what behavior the slave would be beaten. I don't know if there is an example of this kind of punishment to a slave given in the bible or not.
No, I'm just showing that the bible dehumanizes slaves. They are merely property. Makes little sense if the Hebrew people suffered as slaves themselves.Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,13:09) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,18:47) OK KJ: To what heinous crimes that are being carried out in His name are you referring, and I will answer your question.
Just start with the book of Joshua.
What in the book of Joshua do you see as a heinous crime commited in God's name. Be specific and let's analyze each event to see if it is indeed a crime or not.God does not approve of crime.
Hi 90210
Quote Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not. He is a God of love, mercy, and compassion, but also, He is a God of justice.
The scripture I read in English clearly portrays your god as one of the most brutal and senseless killers of all time. The innocent die alongside the 'wicked' just about every time he commits genocide. As scripture is all you have to go on, how do you know your god is not exactly as written? Do your hear voices?Stuart
perhaps the christians hould remove King Davids PSALMS?
SURE MERCY IS grace and is = THAT A SOUL WIL LIVE
ALSO, SOLMONS PROVERBS ARE TWISTED TO FIT MOSES LAWS?
these Kings are still the seed of abraham?
show me a man that will fight himsef to save his army's lives?
so he then should be worhy to folow.Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,19:43) Stu, “90210”? Were you a fan of the show?
No. Not at all. I do find 94…'s number so frustratingly difficult to remember when addressing him/her that I lose interest after the 94 bit. I can remember 90210 though…Stuart
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,20:30) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,13:09) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,18:47) OK KJ: To what heinous crimes that are being carried out in His name are you referring, and I will answer your question.
Just start with the book of Joshua.
What in the book of Joshua do you see as a heinous crime commited in God's name. Be specific and let's analyze each event to see if it is indeed a crime or not.God does not approve of crime.
Can you show me the crimes of those residing in Jericho where it was necessary to kill all of them, including the children?Quote (Stu @ Aug. 31 2008,22:36) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,19:43) Stu, “90210”? Were you a fan of the show?
No. Not at all. I do find 94…'s number so frustratingly difficult to remember when addressing him/her that I lose interest after the 94 bit. I can remember 90210 though…Stuart
Bro 94 has also received some attention from the member, Isaiah. Isaiah called him, SDN. No one knew why including bro 94. So finally I asked him what it meant.“Six Digit Number”
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,23:25) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,20:30) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,13:09) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,18:47) OK KJ: To what heinous crimes that are being carried out in His name are you referring, and I will answer your question.
Just start with the book of Joshua.
What in the book of Joshua do you see as a heinous crime commited in God's name. Be specific and let's analyze each event to see if it is indeed a crime or not.God does not approve of crime.
Can you show me the crimes of those residing in Jericho where it was necessary to kill all of them, including the children?
Hi KJ:If you want to discuss the events in the book of Joshua then let's discuss the scriptures that you question and analyze whether or not the things that you question are crimes that are committed in God's name.
God Bless
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 31 2008,16:22) Hi 90210 Quote Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not. He is a God of love, mercy, and compassion, but also, He is a God of justice.
The scripture I read in English clearly portrays your god as one of the most brutal and senseless killers of all time. The innocent die alongside the 'wicked' just about every time he commits genocide. As scripture is all you have to go on, how do you know your god is not exactly as written? Do your hear voices?Stuart
No, Stu, I don't hear voices, but I know that He is not what the monster that you portray Him to be through your interpretation of what is written in the OT. Granted there are some difficult scriptures in the OT to understand, and when I have a question I go to God in prayer asking Him for understanding just as I did when there was a question pertaining to the topic of this thread. Because of what was a mistranslation of the original scriptures, KJ thought that the scriptures were saying that a man who beat his slave would be punished if his slave died because of the punishment but would not be punished if he surrived a couple of days and then died. I believe that God led me to the NIV and the Hebrew interlinear bible for the proper translation which I have given you.I know that He is not the monster that you potray Him to be because one day in February 1980 when my wife was going to leave me and take my son with her, I turned to Him in prayer asking for help and He has shown me who He is from that day forth by forgiving me for all my sins, making my marriage what it should be and by giving me a purpose for my life which is to glorify Him in the earth through the life that I live in obedience to His commandments and to enjoy His blessings for an eternity.
When you see Jesus you have seen God's character manifest through the life that he lived while he was here on earth. He endured all of the punishment and all of the insults that man could do to him so that he could say in dying “Father forgive them for they no not what they do”.
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,13:07) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,23:25) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,20:30) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,13:09) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,18:47) OK KJ: To what heinous crimes that are being carried out in His name are you referring, and I will answer your question.
Just start with the book of Joshua.
What in the book of Joshua do you see as a heinous crime commited in God's name. Be specific and let's analyze each event to see if it is indeed a crime or not.God does not approve of crime.
Can you show me the crimes of those residing in Jericho where it was necessary to kill all of them, including the children?
Hi KJ:If you want to discuss the events in the book of Joshua then let's discuss the scriptures that you question and analyze whether or not the things that you question are crimes that are committed in God's name.
God Bless
Jos 6:2 And the LORD said to Joshua, “See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and mighty men of valor.Jos 6:17 And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall live, because she hid the messengers whom we sent.
Jos 6:21 Then they devoted all in the city to destruction, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys, with the edge of the sword.
Now, show me what crimes the people of Jericho committed to deserve to be slaughtered.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2008,11:38) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,13:07) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,23:25) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,20:30) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,13:09) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,18:47) OK KJ: To what heinous crimes that are being carried out in His name are you referring, and I will answer your question.
Just start with the book of Joshua.
What in the book of Joshua do you see as a heinous crime commited in God's name. Be specific and let's analyze each event to see if it is indeed a crime or not.God does not approve of crime.
Can you show me the crimes of those residing in Jericho where it was necessary to kill all of them, including the children?
Hi KJ:If you want to discuss the events in the book of Joshua then let's discuss the scriptures that you question and analyze whether or not the things that you question are crimes that are committed in God's name.
God Bless
Jos 6:2 And the LORD said to Joshua, “See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and mighty men of valor.Jos 6:17 And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall live, because she hid the messengers whom we sent.
Jos 6:21 Then they devoted all in the city to destruction, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys, with the edge of the sword.
Now, show me what crimes the people of Jericho committed to deserve to be slaughtered.
Hi KJ:The land or the world belongs to God and he is free to give it to whomever He chooses. The people in the land of Caanan were idoloters, and their destruction was the judgment of God for their disobedience. God gave the land of Caanan to His children.
There is symbolism here. God promised to give the land of Caanan Abraham and his seed. This is the promise land that God gave His children, but the promise land will literally be this whole world that God will give to His children. This world will be paradise for God's children.
All idoloters will be judged and destroyed. In Joshua they were judged by the literal sword. In the NT those who are alive when the Lord comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those who have died in their sins will be raised from the dead and judged according to their works in the second resurrection and be destroyed in the second death in the lake of fire.
God Bless
A whole city was saved by one Man?
And said by (Jesus) they shou;d be our sign, which were changed by earthly works, directon, that should be seen, unless we are the unbelieving generatons? which could well have set their visons out of reality of lifes sorting.Hi 90210
Quote No, Stu, I don't hear voices, but I know that He is not what the monster that you portray Him to be through your interpretation of what is written in the OT. Granted there are some difficult scriptures in the OT to understand, and when I have a question I go to God in prayer asking Him for understanding just as I did when there was a question pertaining to the topic of this thread.
And what happens when you pray? You must expect an answer. What form of hearing voices do you have?Quote Because of what was a mistranslation of the original scriptures, KJ thought that the scriptures were saying that a man who beat his slave would be punished if his slave died because of the punishment but would not be punished if he surrived a couple of days and then died. I believe that God led me to the NIV and the Hebrew interlinear bible for the proper translation which I have given you.
I would have thought it would be difficult to mistranslate that. I have not read the equivalent in the NIV. Is it sanitised?Quote I know that He is not the monster that you potray Him to be because one day in February 1980 when my wife was going to leave me and take my son with her, I turned to Him in prayer asking for help and He has shown me who He is from that day forth by forgiving me for all my sins, making my marriage what it should be and by giving me a purpose for my life which is to glorify Him in the earth through the life that I live in obedience to His commandments and to enjoy His blessings for an eternity.
How do you know it was not god causing the disruption to your marriage and some other benevolent supernatural being defeating god’s will on your behalf? I hope you take great joy in the purpose you have chosen for your life.Quote When you see Jesus you have seen God's character manifest through the life that he lived while he was here on earth. He endured all of the punishment and all of the insults that man could do to him so that he could say in dying “Father forgive them for they no not what they do”.
As we know, no one saw Jesus and wrote about it. Maybe Paul heard voices. Actually he admitted to it.Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 01 2008,16:00) A whole city needed to be destroyed (Judged)? Kinda like the flood…..?
God promised Abraham that He would give the land of Caanan to Him and His seed forever. This is the promise land which became Israel. This land symbolizes the whole world that God will give to His children forever.Yes, I guess that it would be sort of like the flood by which God judged the people who did not believe Noah in those days.
As I said the people of Caanan were idoloters, and were judged by the literal sword. Those in the NT era who are not saved will be judged by the sword (the Word of God) in the last days,
God Bless
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 01 2008,20:02) Hi 90210 Quote No, Stu, I don't hear voices, but I know that He is not what the monster that you portray Him to be through your interpretation of what is written in the OT. Granted there are some difficult scriptures in the OT to understand, and when I have a question I go to God in prayer asking Him for understanding just as I did when there was a question pertaining to the topic of this thread.
And what happens when you pray? You must expect an answer. What form of hearing voices do you have?Quote Because of what was a mistranslation of the original scriptures, KJ thought that the scriptures were saying that a man who beat his slave would be punished if his slave died because of the punishment but would not be punished if he surrived a couple of days and then died. I believe that God led me to the NIV and the Hebrew interlinear bible for the proper translation which I have given you.
I would have thought it would be difficult to mistranslate that. I have not read the equivalent in the NIV. Is it sanitised?Quote I know that He is not the monster that you potray Him to be because one day in February 1980 when my wife was going to leave me and take my son with her, I turned to Him in prayer asking for help and He has shown me who He is from that day forth by forgiving me for all my sins, making my marriage what it should be and by giving me a purpose for my life which is to glorify Him in the earth through the life that I live in obedience to His commandments and to enjoy His blessings for an eternity.
How do you know it was not god causing the disruption to your marriage and some other benevolent supernatural being defeating god’s will on your behalf? I hope you take great joy in the purpose you have chosen for your life.Quote When you see Jesus you have seen God's character manifest through the life that he lived while he was here on earth. He endured all of the punishment and all of the insults that man could do to him so that he could say in dying “Father forgive them for they no not what they do”.
As we know, no one saw Jesus and wrote about it. Maybe Paul heard voices. Actually he admitted to it.Stuart
Hi Stu:Nothing that I say will ever convince you that I am telling you the truth, and so, I guess you will just have to learn the hard way. It's your choice, and so, we'll just leave it at that.
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,20:24) Hi KJ: The land or the world belongs to God and he is free to give it to whomever He chooses. The people in the land of Caanan were idoloters, and their destruction was the judgment of God for their disobedience. God gave the land of Caanan to His children.
So, if a Muslim kills you and your family for being infidels, is that any different? What makes you think Allah is not Yahweh? Perhaps the last prophet was Mohammed and you should join Islam.
Before you say anything, put yourself in a Muslims shoes. To them, you are those Caananites.
Quote There is symbolism here. God promised to give the land of Caanan Abraham and his seed. This is the promise land that God gave His children, but the promise land will literally be this whole world that God will give to His children. This world will be paradise for God's children. Why couldn't Yahweh have given them unoccupied land instead of having to slaughter the inhabitants of another land? That then was their true crimes: living in the wrong place and worshiping a different god. Are you willing to kill Hindus if your god tells you to?
Quote All idoloters will be judged and destroyed. In Joshua they were judged by the literal sword. In the NT those who are alive when the Lord comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those who have died in their sins will be raised from the dead and judged according to their works in the second resurrection and be destroyed in the second death in the lake of fire.
What if you are wrong and another god is the true God? S/he will be unhappy that you were born in a time & place where you could be influenced by the Christian god.Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:20) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,20:24) Hi KJ: The land or the world belongs to God and he is free to give it to whomever He chooses. The people in the land of Caanan were idoloters, and their destruction was the judgment of God for their disobedience. God gave the land of Caanan to His children.
So, if a Muslim kills you and your family for being infidels, is that any different? What makes you think Allah is not Yahweh? Perhaps the last prophet was Mohammed and you should join Islam.
Before you say anything, put yourself in a Muslims shoes. To them, you are those Caananites.
Quote There is symbolism here. God promised to give the land of Caanan Abraham and his seed. This is the promise land that God gave His children, but the promise land will literally be this whole world that God will give to His children. This world will be paradise for God's children. Why couldn't Yahweh have given them unoccupied land instead of having to slaughter the inhabitants of another land? That then was their true crimes: living in the wrong place and worshiping a different god. Are you willing to kill Hindus if your god tells you to?
Quote All idoloters will be judged and destroyed. In Joshua they were judged by the literal sword. In the NT those who are alive when the Lord comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those who have died in their sins will be raised from the dead and judged according to their works in the second resurrection and be destroyed in the second death in the lake of fire.
What if you are wrong and another god is the true God? S/he will be unhappy that you were born in a time & place where you could be influenced by the Christian god.
Hi KJ:Did God deliver the muslims out of Egypt and part the Red Sea for them and did He give them the Ten Commandments or did He do all of this for the Nation of Israel?
Muslims have not been sent by God. They believe that Jesus is the Messiah but they do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Now they also believe that they are serving the same God that the Jews and the Christians are serving. My God says that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish. They say that God does not have any Son or sons. And so, they can't be serving the same God.
And no, I know without a doubt that I am not wrong because the Spirit of God witnesses within me to the truth. Also, I have had numerous experiences since by conversion experience that testify to the truth. God also answers my prayers.
Muslims are trying to be saved through “good works”. My salvation is a gift from God not something I can earn through good works. I obey Him out of my love for him.
I am sorry that you have been deceived KJ. My hope and prayer is that you will repent and come to God on His terms.
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