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Are you saying Jesus did not say it was good to teach? Would Jesus have agreed that Job could have cast a stone?
Stuart
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,19:38) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 30 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,16:24) Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Of the people not killed by the Israelites, did any become slaves of the Hebrew people?
Hi KJ:You are the one questioning God's motives. The question is did God approve of forced slavery?
Does He approve of the hard speeches that you and others are making against Him?
Does he approve of the heinous crimes committed in his name in the bible?Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2008,21:46) Quote What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach. –stu.
Of course, you're wrong again.
Quote Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Obviously, they all had sin. So, your understanding of scripture is a bit twisted. No one dared throw a stone. They would have been saying they themselves were perfect. Jesus' reasoning and teaching methods astounded many.
The passage this comes from was added later.Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:32) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,19:38) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 30 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,16:24) Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Of the people not killed by the Israelites, did any become slaves of the Hebrew people?
Hi KJ:You are the one questioning God's motives. The question is did God approve of forced slavery?
Does He approve of the hard speeches that you and others are making against Him?
Does he approve of the heinous crimes committed in his name in the bible?
Hi KJ:Are you accusing Him?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:33) Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2008,21:46) Quote What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach. –stu.
Of course, you're wrong again.
Quote Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Obviously, they all had sin. So, your understanding of scripture is a bit twisted. No one dared throw a stone. They would have been saying they themselves were perfect. Jesus' reasoning and teaching methods astounded many.
The passage this comes from was added later.
Was David who committed adultery with Bathsheba stoned to death or did God forgive him when he repented?Hi:
Quote Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”NIV translates this verse as follows:
Quote Exd 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
Exd 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,05:49) Hi: Quote Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”NIV translates this verse as follows:
Quote Exd 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
Exd 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
These two translations leave us with two different impressions, do they not? A lot of the bible is this way, this is the exact reason why I have come to doubt ALL is the word of God in the way it has been translated. Keith and Nick may put full stock in it's leather-bound words, but I do not. Does this mean I love God any less? I suppose to some it does mean that. I wonder what God will think?Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,05:55) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,05:49) Hi: Quote Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”NIV translates this verse as follows:
Quote Exd 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
Exd 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
These two translations leave us with two different impressions, do they not? A lot of the bible is this way, this is the exact reason why I have come to doubt ALL is the word of God in the way it has been translated. Keith and Nick may put full stock in it's leather-bound words, but I do not. Does this mean I love God any less? I suppose to some it does mean that. I wonder what God will think?Love,
Mandy
Hi Mandy:Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not. He is a God of love, mercy, and compassion, but also, He is a God of justice.
Jesus has said: “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
If you will focus on what God has done for you through His only begotten Son and His Christ, instead of things you may not understand, you continue in His love.
I am not saying that you should not continue to study to understand the bible. You should, asking God for understanding.
God knows your heart, and He loves you.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,06:20) Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not.
I'm sure you can appreciate then, those of us who do not put their full confidence in the bible?Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 30 2008,08:00) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 30 2008,02:15) Stoning was the means available in biblical days,we have the means to meet out justice in a much more humane fashion today….In the OT God gives instruction on adminstrating justice….(eg. eye for an eye,any one who wantedly murders will give up his life in return,etc…..)
Hi Theodore.I think you have got it all wrong.
God did not practice an eye for an eye.
If He did He would have commanded that if
a child sasses his parents they should sass him back,We are not just talking about an eye for an eye.
God did not command killing someone for murder only.
He commanded that His people should ;
Kill anyone who worked on the Sabbath.
Kill anyone who cursed his parents.
Kill a stubborn or rebellious son.
Kill adulterers.
Kill brides who were thought to be not virgin.
Kill homosexuals.
Kill prostitutes.
Kill anyone who entices you to worship another God.
Kill anyone who worships another God.
Kill mediums or spirits.
Kill blasphemers.
Kill anyone who eats blood.
Kill witches.
Kill false prophets.
Kill unbelievers.Seems like there were very few remedial punishments other than killing
the transgressor.
This from the God who said “thou shalt not kill.”Tim
Greetings Tim…..Perhaps I have overstated my position with respect to an Eye for an Eye and yes you are correct…
God doesn't support or sanction any form of revenge “Vengence is mine saith the Lord”…Iam not so sure that the many infractions you cited are indeed punishable by death in a sense as we know it….Instead this type of behavior was sanctioned by the religous zealots of time so as to maintain the seat of power that they were wallowing at the time….Justice is Gods nature…Brutality is in mans nature..Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,07:05) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,06:20) Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not.
I'm sure you can appreciate then, those of us who do not put their full confidence in the bible?
No, you must seek out the truth. Ask God for understanding.
I can't go along with those who make accusations against my God without knowledge.It just like the verse of scripture which I just quoted from the NIV which gives us a different understanding than what the KJV leads us to believe. I also looked at the Hebrew interlinear bible and this is the same understanding that I get from it. If I hadn't searched, I would have just accepted the KJV translation.
As I have stated previously, I have had go back to read the last few chapters of the book of Job many of time. I see the wisdom of God all around me, and so, even if I don't understand at times, I will search for the answer.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,07:52) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,07:05) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,06:20) Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not.
I'm sure you can appreciate then, those of us who do not put their full confidence in the bible?
No, you must seek out the truth. Ask God for understanding.
I can't go along with those who make accusations against my God without knowledge.It just like the verse of scripture which I just quoted from the NIV which gives us a different understanding than what the KJV leads us to believe. I also looked at the Hebrew interlinear bible and this is the same understanding that I get from it. If I hadn't searched, I would have just accepted the KJV translation.
As I have stated previously, I have had go back to read the last few chapters of the book of Job many of time. I see the wisdom of God all around me, and so, even if I don't understand at times, I will search for the answer.
God Bless
Yes, I appreciate what you are saying here. However, even after searching you may find that there are several different options for understanding any passage of scripture (and indeed there are!). What then?I know, I know, search for wisdom and pray – this I do. But trusting translations is risky business. Especially when you trust them to the extent that you judge someone's behavior or life according to the maybe mis-translated words, imo. Further, some build complete doctrines from certain translations only – again – risky business.
Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,08:04) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,07:52) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,07:05) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 31 2008,06:20) Mistranslations and misunderstandings of scriptures make God look like some kind of monster that He is not.
I'm sure you can appreciate then, those of us who do not put their full confidence in the bible?
No, you must seek out the truth. Ask God for understanding.
I can't go along with those who make accusations against my God without knowledge.It just like the verse of scripture which I just quoted from the NIV which gives us a different understanding than what the KJV leads us to believe. I also looked at the Hebrew interlinear bible and this is the same understanding that I get from it. If I hadn't searched, I would have just accepted the KJV translation.
As I have stated previously, I have had go back to read the last few chapters of the book of Job many of time. I see the wisdom of God all around me, and so, even if I don't understand at times, I will search for the answer.
God Bless
Yes, I appreciate what you are saying here. However, even after searching you may find that there are several different options for understanding any passage of scripture (and indeed there are!). What then?I know, I know, search for wisdom and pray – this I do. But trusting translations is risky business. Especially when you trust them to the extent that you judge someone's behavior or life according to the maybe mis-translated words, imo. Further, some build complete doctrines from certain translations only – again – risky business.
Love,
Mandy
Hi Mandy:Again, focus your attention on what God has done for you in the person of our Lord Jesus.
And continue in this that you are doing:
Quote I know, I know, search for wisdom and pray – this I do. And if you don't understand, say that you don't understand, but if you have known God's love in the pardon of your sins, you will know that God is a righteous and Holy God.
Since I don't read Hebrew or Greek, I have had to go to several different translations to get the meaning of certain scriptures. If we have a different understanding than someone on certain doctrines or scriptures and we have shared that understanding and we still differ than we need to pray asking God to bring us into unity. To continue in endless debates serves no purpose. We must be ready to be corrected if we are wrong.
There is a difference between speaking the truth in love to someone because you love them and in judging them. God is the judge and He will judge every man according to their works, and if He is the judge, how is it that some would think that they are wiser than He so that they may instruct Him or accuse Him of wrong doing.
When pray I expect God to answer my prayer otherwise why would I pray? And so, if He answers and gives me understanding on certain scriptures or doctrines then I have the truth.
Quote Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his waysI don't know if I answered your questions, but if not please try again. We've strayed from the topic of this thread.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:34) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:32) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,19:38) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 30 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,16:24) Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Of the people not killed by the Israelites, did any become slaves of the Hebrew people?
Hi KJ:You are the one questioning God's motives. The question is did God approve of forced slavery?
Does He approve of the hard speeches that you and others are making against Him?
Does he approve of the heinous crimes committed in his name in the bible?
Hi KJ:Are you accusing Him?
Not to be short, but it appears your reading comprehension needs a little work. I said “Does he approve of the heinous crimes committed in his name in the bible?”. So do you think I am accusing God or accusing those who either wrote the bible, or those who committed certain crimes against humanity and claimed it was in the name of God.Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:35) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:33) Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2008,21:46) Quote What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach. –stu.
Of course, you're wrong again.
Quote Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Obviously, they all had sin. So, your understanding of scripture is a bit twisted. No one dared throw a stone. They would have been saying they themselves were perfect. Jesus' reasoning and teaching methods astounded many.
The passage this comes from was added later.
Was David who committed adultery with Bathsheba stoned to death or did God forgive him when he repented?
Well considering that David should never have been a Hebrew king (he was a Moabite), its hard to say. The bible is so full of conflicts we can never know if the supposed laws against adultery were really in place before David or not.Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:49) Hi: Quote Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”NIV translates this verse as follows:
Quote Exd 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
Exd 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
So its ok to beat slaves since they are property, and thus less than human?Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,10:00) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:34) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:32) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,19:38) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 30 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,16:24) Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Of the people not killed by the Israelites, did any become slaves of the Hebrew people?
Hi KJ:You are the one questioning God's motives. The question is did God approve of forced slavery?
Does He approve of the hard speeches that you and others are making against Him?
Does he approve of the heinous crimes committed in his name in the bible?
Hi KJ:Are you accusing Him?
Not to be short, but it appears your reading comprehension needs a little work. I said “Does he approve of the heinous crimes committed in his name in the bible?”. So do you think I am accusing God or accusing those who either wrote the bible, or those who committed certain crimes against humanity and claimed it was in the name of God.
OK KJ:To what heinous crimes that are being carried out in His name are you referring, and I will answer your question.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,10:02) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:35) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,00:33) Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2008,21:46) Quote What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach. –stu.
Of course, you're wrong again.
Quote Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Obviously, they all had sin. So, your understanding of scripture is a bit twisted. No one dared throw a stone. They would have been saying they themselves were perfect. Jesus' reasoning and teaching methods astounded many.
The passage this comes from was added later.
Was David who committed adultery with Bathsheba stoned to death or did God forgive him when he repented?
Well considering that David should never have been a Hebrew king (he was a Moabite), its hard to say. The bible is so full of conflicts we can never know if the supposed laws against adultery were really in place before David or not.
OK KJ:Tell God and the Jews why David should never have been king, and maybe they will revoke all of this for your sake. It is true that David's grandmother was a Moabitess.
The Ten Commandments including the law pertaining to adultery was in place at the time of King David and is still in place. God's law is eternal.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 31 2008,10:04) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,12:49) Hi: Quote Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”NIV translates this verse as follows:
Quote Exd 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
Exd 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
So its ok to beat slaves since they are property, and thus less than human?
Hi KJ:Your issue with these scriptures before I quoted the NIV was that the salve owner would not be punished if the slave continued to live for a day or two. Now that I show you that this was mistranslated you want to switch your complaint to the fact that the slave owner was allowed to punish his slaves. The scripture does not say for what behavior the slave would be beaten. I don't know if there is an example of this kind of punishment to a slave given in the bible or not.
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