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Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 29 2008,00:03) Quote In fact, as far as I know, there is no mention in scripture of setting any slave free 15When runaway slaves from other countries come to Israel and ask for protection, you must not hand them back to their owners. 16Instead, you must let them choose which one of your towns they want to live in. Don't be cruel to runaway slaves.
It's not terribly morally strident not to return slaves to foreigners! The fact of that matter is that slaves bought and sold to Israelites were permanent.Leviticus 25:44-46:
“And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property. And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor.“Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 29 2008,05:43) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 28 2008,20:30) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 28 2008,21:58) Christians, is slavery wrong? The silence is deafening.
Stuart
It's wrong today (you can be put in jail for keeping someone against their will). But it sure was acceptable in our past history. They even had “markets” where you could buy and trade slaves. I'm sure some exist today throughout the world – poor souls. I suppose slavery will always exist to some degree, if not to the fullest degree.Mandy
Mandy,Are you saying that true righteousness changes from generation to generation? In other words, if you lived in the early 1800s in America, do you think that it would have been morally fine for you to own slaves and (for good measure) to beat them daily?
I'm saying it was morally OK for them in that age. Obviously THEY saw nothing wrong with it, nor did the lawmaker's and those who are supposed to judge morality back then.Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,01:54) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 29 2008,05:43) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 28 2008,20:30) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 28 2008,21:58) Christians, is slavery wrong? The silence is deafening.
Stuart
It's wrong today (you can be put in jail for keeping someone against their will). But it sure was acceptable in our past history. They even had “markets” where you could buy and trade slaves. I'm sure some exist today throughout the world – poor souls. I suppose slavery will always exist to some degree, if not to the fullest degree.Mandy
Mandy,Are you saying that true righteousness changes from generation to generation? In other words, if you lived in the early 1800s in America, do you think that it would have been morally fine for you to own slaves and (for good measure) to beat them daily?
I'm saying it was morally OK for them in that age. Obviously THEY saw nothing wrong with it, nor did the lawmaker's and those who are supposed to judge morality back then.
So there is no objective moral standard by which to judge them or anyone? As long as the majority is OK with something that makes it acceptable? Would you feel comfortable telling an African American that slavery was OK in the 18th century because most people in the society accepted it?Put (yet) another way, are you saying that anywhere in the world today where slavery is legal, it is also morally acceptable?
Hi WIT,
This is why moralism is wrong
and useless.Jn16
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Slavery is a Mentality controled, there is one wealthy Man slave owner called Adam, owning Many created stock..CATTLE and sheep!
In Him are the pardonable creation and the unpardonable creation!
The pardonable creation is bullied into bulling the unpardonable friends to attempt reaching their wealth by accusing them of originating from a father of Lies.It’s like tormenting a toad to evolve into a frog to prove its not wasting space on their god’s earth.
And denominations form divided Kingdoms, are as Land into three protons
Hating the Harlot that separated as they casting Satan out of each other?
charityQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 29 2008,03:32) Hi WIT,
This is why moralism is wrong
and useless.Jn16
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Is that what you teach (or taught) your children?From the same book of the bible that you quote:
John 5:28-29: “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.“
From a different gospel:
Matther 5:19: “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.“
It appears that God expects you to be moral Nick. Do you disagree?
If you view the two as separate, I will not quarrel with you.
The purpose of this thread is to determine whether slavery, including the kind where owners can beat their slaves to death, is inoffensive to the “law of the Spirit”. As someone who is presumably lead by the “law of the Spirit”, you should know. Do you?
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 29 2008,07:23) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,01:54) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 29 2008,05:43) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 28 2008,20:30) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 28 2008,21:58) Christians, is slavery wrong? The silence is deafening.
Stuart
It's wrong today (you can be put in jail for keeping someone against their will). But it sure was acceptable in our past history. They even had “markets” where you could buy and trade slaves. I'm sure some exist today throughout the world – poor souls. I suppose slavery will always exist to some degree, if not to the fullest degree.Mandy
Mandy,Are you saying that true righteousness changes from generation to generation? In other words, if you lived in the early 1800s in America, do you think that it would have been morally fine for you to own slaves and (for good measure) to beat them daily?
I'm saying it was morally OK for them in that age. Obviously THEY saw nothing wrong with it, nor did the lawmaker's and those who are supposed to judge morality back then.
So there is no objective moral standard by which to judge them or anyone? As long as the majority is OK with something that makes it acceptable? Would you feel comfortable telling an African American that slavery was OK in the 18th century because most people in the society accepted it?Put (yet) another way, are you saying that anywhere in the world today where slavery is legal, it is also morally acceptable?
Hmmm. This is interesting.What do you think of the bible and it's seemingly passive view on slavery? It appeared to be morally OK to the bible character's and even to God who spoke through these men.
The roots of Slavery originate from the bible
Bringing offerings
a percept upon precept gave birth to private interruptions
Some that assumed dark skinned people are mirrored Images of evil.
and the promise is that one Nation shall serve the other.
its all about acting out with faith and no mercy,
woe even to government, the hands that have been unpowered to oppress.
Until a just government rules it out. Thank you Abraham Lincoln
The only power left after the Law is resolved to broken, is that within the morals of the individual, .where the Mind sayeth you might be free but I refuse justice, and entreat you as no more than lower life servants.
It Takes many years to heal this wrong, for Many pass the Hatred down generations
that it Lives until its broken at Home.
Where there is un healthy thinking, there is much suffering and children are silent serving slaves to the head of a houses Ideas and mythscharity
Quote (lineon @ Aug. 28 2008,11:43) Stu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.
Make fun? Au contraire. I don't get my morals from a 2000+ year old book. Owning other humans is always wrong IMHO.Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 28 2008,12:15) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 28 2008,23:01) Anyone here know why the Southern Baptists were formed?
The Northern Baptists from Michigan moved to Florida.Tim
Hehe, actually, the splintered from the main Baptists because they wanted to own slaves and felt the bible supported this view.DEUTERONOMY 15:12-17
““In case there should be sold to you your brother, a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, and he has served you six years, then in the seventh year you should send him out from you as one set free. And in case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress. Just as Jehovah your God has blessed you, you should give to him. And you must remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and Jehovah your God proceeded to redeem you. That is why I am commanding you this thing today. “And it must occur that in case he says to you, ‘I shall not go out from your company!’ because he does love you and your household, since it was well with him while with you, you must also take an awl and put it through his ear and to the door, and he must become your slave to time indefinite. And to your slave girl you should also do this way.”What does the fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master indicate?
Hi, Jas 2:8
What if some one is enslaved to doctrines, they Love others as slaves themselves.
Knowing they never had experienced any different way? true freedom.
Jesus came to set the captives free! From past prophets whom set themselves up over the brethrenForgiving self, many do not love them self, the bible twists and turns self over to rejection, and struggle eats away, under the parable Love others as your self.
This only works in the hands of the mature, whom having Set self free first, qualified to earn rewarded and due favour.
Jesus Himself perhaps did this, and loved others as he loved himself, but left as just a command again, uneplained, hurled at people from any direction, this then only resembles a demand
That, AMONGEST THE unbelievers, adversaries, a god shall be again made accountable for mans blandersQuote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,14:05) Quote (lineon @ Aug. 28 2008,11:43) Stu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.
Make fun? Au contraire. I don't get my morals from a 2000+ year old book. Owning other humans is always wrong IMHO.
However you wouldn't have thought it was wrong if you lived in the South about a hundred years ago…… Perhaps, maybe you would have, but highly unlikely.Thinking,
circumstances of the ages error
social classes appear when the economy is struggling, forcing….Poverty
Is A slave one that is reliant for work in return for Food and drink, for his family?
Blessed is the Man that finds himself Hire? That his family may survive? burden lifted in agreement?
If he a good slave then he is worth selling, (GONE BAD) for poverty has no bargining power
Are we all slaves to employment just to eat and keep our self respect?
Tax is the Master….And the hirer is beaten, whom beats his slaves?Quote (david @ Aug. 28 2008,23:22) DEUTERONOMY 15:12-17
““In case there should be sold to you your brother, a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, and he has served you six years, then in the seventh year you should send him out from you as one set free. And in case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress. Just as Jehovah your God has blessed you, you should give to him. And you must remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and Jehovah your God proceeded to redeem you. That is why I am commanding you this thing today. “And it must occur that in case he says to you, ‘I shall not go out from your company!’ because he does love you and your household, since it was well with him while with you, you must also take an awl and put it through his ear and to the door, and he must become your slave to time indefinite. And to your slave girl you should also do this way.”What does the fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master indicate?
That some were treated kindly.Curious, but can you show us where non-Hebrew slaves were to be set free?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,00:58) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,14:05) Quote (lineon @ Aug. 28 2008,11:43) Stu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.
Make fun? Au contraire. I don't get my morals from a 2000+ year old book. Owning other humans is always wrong IMHO.
However you wouldn't have thought it was wrong if you lived in the South about a hundred years ago…… Perhaps, maybe you would have, but highly unlikely.
And many Germans in Germany voted for Hitler. Christians killed Jews because they felt they were evil. People do all sorts of things when they feel their god justifies it.Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,00:58) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,14:05) Quote (lineon @ Aug. 28 2008,11:43) Stu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.
Make fun? Au contraire. I don't get my morals from a 2000+ year old book. Owning other humans is always wrong IMHO.
However you wouldn't have thought it was wrong if you lived in the South about a hundred years ago…… Perhaps, maybe you would have, but highly unlikely.
Oh, and one other thing…you have just showed that the bible is not the word of God, but of humans. Or did God change his mind about slavery?
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