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Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 05 2010,08:01) CO
there are limits to the wickets this was only the beginning (flood)wait and see wen the end is there the destruction would be far greater than the flood was.
you have to understand that there is no room for the wicket ones ,God did not create this planet to be cover with wicket people but with righteous ones,all what happen is to resolve a old dispute what as now been answered but the final act still to unfold.wait and see.or look and learn
terraricca.
If what you say is true, then why did God make “the wicked”?Proverbs16:4
Yahweh has made everything for its own pertinent end,
Yea even the wicked for the day of evil.If there were a greater understanding and believing of the following scripture in Romans, there would be far less mystery concerning God.
Ro.11:36 … seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!ALL IS OF GOD!
Blessings.
kerwin & terraricca.
If “all is of God” as scripture plainly says in numerous scripture, then how can ANYTHING be “of Mankind”? Free will? Nowhere in scripture is this found.Blessings.
PS. In some scripture God says 'choose', But He (God) has predestined the answer.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote If you cannot believe all scripture, then your understanding is limited.
You fail to understand scripture when you give the wrong definition to “evil”. I will freely admit that God causes calamity. Calamity is not more evil that being disciplined by for wrongdoing. I admit that evil can also be defined as misfortune but then one man’s misfortune can be another man’s fortune. It was Jesus’ misfortune to be nailed to the cross but many are fortunate that it happened. You can call it evil but the real evil was in the hearts of those that chose to crucify him.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote When God uses 'evil' He does not sin,
If God chooses to sin for us then he sins and that cannot be. That is a flaw in your doctrine. The only choice the God testified of by Jesus can make is to do right, so if he chooses everything for us then we would never sin.
I understand you have trouble accepting this truth but it best if you did. Trust in God. Trust in Jesus.
hi CO
in the beginning God created all things when he created man ,he put forth a choice to follow or not to follow,with it was attached a penalty clause,like that day you surely die.the great question is here did Adam had a choice or not
?
some will say no ,because only to alternatives .but i think he acted in a free will ,he was not forced to take any action at all,he could have never be bother by the tree it was one of many he would have mist nothing,he was not under pressure by his wive EVE, as fare i can see he made the decision knowing what he was doing by eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge
so free will is not in the bible but wen you have a choice and not forced into ,this become your on free will to act.
now if your argument is about God knowing the outcome and because of him knowing the outcome is that make God guilty of the crime.
this would mean that God is guilty for every man -women-child ,forest ,pollution,destruction on earth wars,ect.
that is what some people want to believe, but is it true?
?see it this way ,if you have a son he play with a lither ,you tel him don't play with this you get burn,
this could be other stuff just a example, it seems you know what will happen ,would you be guilty of
the fire,or other damage he may cause.no matter the age. you only could prevent the problem by lock your son up so he can not move or touch any thing.you see God let us free and let us to decide which way we want our will to go.
but he held us responsible for our actions.and still out of love he provided us to get out of the mess we made on this planet,He has send his Son to ransom us ,the guilty ones because there was no way out any other way ,we would have been trap in this circle of violence,that is what Satan wanted.
so we still in front of our will free to choose it is personal we have to make the decision before the time is up.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 05 2010,08:33) kerwin & terraricca.
If “all is of God” as scripture plainly says in numerous scripture, then how can ANYTHING be “of Mankind”? Free will? Nowhere in scripture is this found.Blessings.
PS. In some scripture God says 'choose', But He (God) has predestined the answer.
Choice is found in scripture. In fact we are instructed to choose and God does not instruct us to do anything we cannot do. If you wish to call if “free choice” then do so. A person chooses from their heart and God creates the heart along with the rest of the man. Some may say they have “free will” but God created their will. I assure you our choices are not random.John 7:17(NIV) reads:
Quote If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
James 4:4(NIV) quote:
Quote You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Hi kerwin.
If you refuse to believe scripture, Gods word, then it is pointless to use your own reasoning to explain Gods ways. WE can't choose to do Gods will, scripture states that God “is operating ALL in accord of councel of HIS WILL.
Try as you may, Gods will will be done, not yours. (Eph1:11).Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 05 2010,12:41) Hi kerwin.
If you refuse to believe scripture, Gods word, then it is pointless to use your own reasoning to explain Gods ways. WE can't choose to do Gods will, scripture states that God “is operating ALL in accord of councel of HIS WILL.
Try as you may, Gods will will be done, not yours. (Eph1:11).Blessings.
Where do you get the idea that I have said anything else. My point is that you accuse God of sinning and that is a false accusation. As for God's Will being done. No Kidding! He is the chess-master and I but a piece on the board he allows to make his own path according to God's own plan because he knows my moves before I make them and plans accordingly. I assure you that all my plans are not successful though God does choose to bless a few.I realize this is hard for you to wrap you mind around but I assure you even though God allows each of us to choose our own path he is still in control.
I have already pointed out that scripture contradicts your doctrine. It is so clear that anyone who is not suffering from denial can see it. It is up to God to open your eyes and he is willing to do it if you choose to seek him with all your heart.
Kerwin and terraricca.
Thank you both for your opinions, much appreciated.
Follwing is the first chapter of the book of Ephesians, the Concordant Literal New Testament, please read it carefully, it gives a very good explanation of what God is doing.
Chapter 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to all the saints who are also believers in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ,
4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:
7 in Whom we are having the deliverance through His blood, the forgiveness of offenses in accord with the riches of His grace,
8 which He lavishes on us; in all wisdom and prudence
9 making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)
10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
12 that we should be for the laud of His glory, who are pre-expectant in the Christ.
13 In Whom you also — on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation — in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise
14 (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!
15 Therefore, I also, on hearing of this faith of yours in the Lord Jesus, and that for all the saints,
16 do not cease giving thanks for you, making mention in my prayers
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may be giving you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the realization of Him,
18 the eyes of your heart having been enlightened, for you to perceive what is the expectation of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of the enjoyment of His allotment among the saints,
19 and what the transcendent greatness of His power for us who are believing, in accord with the operation of the might of His strength,
20 which is operative in the Christ, rousing Him from among the dead and seating Him at His right hand among the celestials,
21 up over every sovereignty and authority and power and lordship, and every name that is named, not only in this eon, but also in that which is impending:
22 and subjects all under His feet, and gives Him, as Head over all, to the ecclesia which is His body, the complement of the One completing the all in all.In my opinion, after much research and studying the method used in this literal translation, I believe this bible is the most accurate.
Once grasped, we realise that the scriptures (bible) is not a book of what we must do to be saved, but a book of what GOD IS DOING to save us. This chapter shows quite plainly that God is in complete control, He (God) is the author, we are the actors, in this stage of His creation.God Bless, Jerry.
Hi CO,
Yes you have been in deception for some time in this matter.
All will not be saved but some pots are for the fire.
Wake up and seek the will of God.Choosenone,
Do you believe God is all knowing? Do you believe anything can truly surprise him?
Then let us assume for this scenario that God does not control the actions of human beings. Even in that case his knowledge of all things he knows what I will choose in each and every circumstance as if my choice were already made. He uses this knowledge by placing me in those circumstances so that the outcome is according to his will. He uses his knowledge for each and every event in my life. He does the same with every other human being I know or have knowledge of in anyway. If the outcome will not lead to his grand plan being accomplished then he simply will not place the appropriate people, animals, etc. for it to happen. He will only create those that are necessary for his plan to come to fruitarian.
Let’s take the allegory of a play you mentioned. God is the script writer as well as the director and other parts but the script he prepares describes the narrative but he leaves the dialogue up to the actors. He though chooses the actors for each part knowing beforehand what dialogue they would use and how they would relate to one another as well as the events he narrates. His method of directing is similar in that he allows the actors to direct their own actions but knowing beforehand what they will do he uses their actions for his own purpose.
In this you see that I agree with you that God does all he can to save us but he is limited only in the fact he cannot sin. Because God cannot sin he cannot save those who refuse to repent no matter how many God puts them in situations where they can choose to do so. God still needs those people as they are necessary to save the ones who will choose to repent. If they were not necessary then God would not have created them in the first place. This is hard for some to except but it is best that they do.
I also agree with you that God is in complete control but that does not mean he does not allow us to make choices according to our own will. In the end though it is God’s will and not our own that will prevail.
Proverbs 19:21(NIV) reads:
Quote Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.
hi CO
i don 't will go were you are ,but if you are happy with it that is your choice you are free to go
it looks like you found what you are looking for ;you forget one thing doe, Paul and the book to the EPHESIANS , was not there wen Christ was still with is apostles and your conclusions are your own and personal,not the truth it is your choice.
as for your translation bible it is also your personal conclusion not the truth.your choice
Hi terraricca & kerwin.
Just a few more scriptures if I may…Eph.2:8-9 …For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
This clearly states that your salvation is “NOT OF YOU”.Eph.2:10 …For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
Again, does this not say that “HIS (God) achievment are we”? How can you honestly give yourself the credit for your salvation? PRIDE?2Cor.5:18-18 …Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
Again, it says “all is of God”, and that He “conciliated the world to Himself (God), did you have a hand in this?1Tim.2:4 …Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
I'm sure you can justify that He (God) cannot accomplish His will? How foolish we can we be to believe our God is that impotant.In closeing, I can only say, thank God for saving me, to trust in myself would be futile.
Good luck in trying.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi CO,
Those who are saved and become sons of God will know it has all been of grace.
But most who think they are saved are not yet and many who have been do not become sons of God.
Presumption of salvation for individual men is dangerous but assumption all will be saved is unadulterated folly.CO
you do not show that the trinity is true ,you only find some text you do not understand and try in this way to show that the trinity as some legimity,BUT BY NO MEANS DO YOU ESTABLISH IT TO BE TRUE. if i could would help I WOULD , but i can not prove it because it is not in the Bible or teach by the PROPHETS OR JESUS CHRIST OR THE APOSTLES.
IT IS JUST NOT THERE.
Hi terraricca.
I don't know how you got the idea that I believe in the trinity, it sure wasn't in any of my posts. Let me assure you, I do not believe in the trinity, scripture says there is “one God the father, out of whom all is”. Rest assured, I agree with you there.Blessings.
hi CN
i have no idea, i must have take you for someone elseforgive me ,there is a lot of confusion with the trinity believers,
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 06 2010,15:41) hi CN
i have no idea, i must have take you for someone elseforgive me ,there is a lot of confusion with the trinity believers,
Hi terraricca.
No need to appolagise, we all make mistakes, I do thank you for doing so though.It takes a good person to confess that they make an error, there is no shame in that, in fact, it elevates our opinion of you.
God Bless, Jerry.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote This clearly states that your salvation is “NOT OF YOU”.
I can quote Acts 2:40 where Peter tells his hearers to save themselves by adhering to the message he is teaching. In 1 Timothy 4:16 Paul instructs Timothy to watch both his life and doctrine to save himself and his hearers. Do these scriptures contradict the scriptures that say it is God that saves us? In case you do not realize it any gift from God is his grace.
God offers the gift, in which way he saves us, but we must accept it, in that way we save ourselves. If God did not offer that gift then we certainly could not save ourselves and thus his offer must come first. You can see this in Acts 17:24-28 where we are taught that God arranged events so that each man “would seek him and perhaps reach out to him. “ Only a few of those in Athens that heard that message chose to believe even though God made offer to all.
Those that accept God gift when he offers are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness. God only created some men who would hunger and thirst for righteousness while others he created to be children of the devil. In creating each individual serves God’s purpose. What do I have to boast of since I did not create myself?
God desires that each member of mankind would be saved but in order to accomplish his righteous purpose that cannot be. The only reason God can be limited in this matter is because for everyone to be saved would be a sinful act. If you chose to believe scripture then it tells you why God cannot save some in Romans 9:22-24.
Do not forget that God is just as well as merciful.
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