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Hi Rose You write
Quote If we wish to try to put Matthew and Luke together we always have a problem as to when the Magi came. I believe the problem comes from the perceptions of two different men neither of whom were present at the time that is being talked about, or rather the source of their information.
As to observing christmas and easter.
I say any excuse to get out of work and get families together is OK in my book.After all is said and done it is the thought that counts, right?
Thinking of wicked things stains the soul
Thinking of godly things is a blessingHi everyone:
Many of my family are not saved, and so when we get together to celebrate Christmas, they do not know what they are celebrating, but I know, and so, I use the opportunity to teach that we worship the giver of the gifts and not the gifts, and I let them know that Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity. If they want to bring Santa into the celebration, I tell them that I won't be a part of the celebration. I enjoy the celebration, and personally, I can't see anything wrong with celebrating the birth of my Lord even though it may not be the specific day on which he was born.
Also, I prepared a Christmas letter that I use as a Christmas card which I use to share the gospel. In the work place they do not even want anyone to say “Merry Christmas” but prefer that you say “Happy Holidays” instead to include Christmas and New years day. My Christmas letter then reads something like this: “Happy holidays as my wife and I celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus. Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity so that whoever desires to be reconciled to Him may do so”, and then I'll quote John 3:16-17. It is usually not ok to witness on the job, but usually, there is not problem to give someone a Christmas card. I even gave one to the Vice President of the company.
I don't like that merchants captialize on the holiday so that they can sell their merchandise, and they put more emphasis on Santa than on the true meaning of the holiday.
About Easter, it is just another Sunday to go to church and worship God. The sermon may pertain to the resurrection, but that is all. Some of my family want to hide Easter eggs for the children. They view this as fun, but I don't, and I am not a part of that.
Quote (dclegg @ Oct. 28 2006,08:42) Just to throw in another consideration: I was reading in one of the post where the Passover was referred to as a holiday.
Not trying to be to picky but I believe the Passover is a Holyday. That is another interesting play on words. The world celebrates holidays. The festivals of the Old Testament were called Holydays.
Hi DC,Excellent point.
Quote (TJStarfire @ Nov. 02 2006,10:33) Hi Rose You write Quote If we wish to try to put Matthew and Luke together we always have a problem as to when the Magi came. I believe the problem comes from the perceptions of two different men neither of whom were present at the time that is being talked about, or rather the source of their information.
Hi Starfire,The two guys were likely not present when Jesus was born but their accounts must be reliable as all scripture; Matthew was among the apostles of our Lord, being hand picked by Jesus himself.
Mat 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas [the brother] of James.
Starfire,
I disagree with you. I believe God hates the idea that we as believers partake in pagan holidays and rituals. Look how many times he punished Israel in the OT for doing the same thing. Do you think he has just changed his mind of the years?
My family and I just had a message from a service on the celebration of pagan holidays. My wife and son decided this halloween they wanted to go to a place like a haunted house or prison. Anyway, they did, I would not go. When they came out, they found the car window had been smashed on the drivers side. Thank the Lord nothing was taken. Cell phones and wallet and purses were inside the car. They didn't even take my son's new CD player he just has put in.
They went to the Police station and found out that many others had the same thing happen to them, but many had things stolen from their cars.
The lesson shook them allot. They will not do anything that has to do with this any longer.
Now on Christmas, I told them what I felt was wrong and what they needed to do to celebrate the birth of Jesus if they really wanted to do this. I said to change the day and to call it what is, Jesus's birth day. As for the tree, it is pagan. I see nothing wrong with the giving of gifts if it is done with the right heart. The same with the feast. Let it be a day that is in celebration of the birth of our Lord.
Quote My family and I just had a message from a service on the celebration of pagan holidays. My wife and son decided this halloween they wanted to go to a place like a haunted house or prison. Anyway, they did, I would not go. When they came out, they found the car window had been smashed on the drivers side. Thank the Lord nothing was taken. Cell phones and wallet and purses were inside the car. They didn't even take my son's new CD player he just has put in. In Detroit, Michigan, I believe the night before halloween is called “Devil's night,” and that there are people who start fires in the city.
Halloween has always had the idea of: You give me a treat, or I will do something bad to you, a “trick.” The fruitage that halloween produces should show us what it is.Quote Now on Christmas, I told them what I felt was wrong and what they needed to do to celebrate the birth of Jesus if they really wanted to do this. I said to change the day and to call it what is, Jesus's birth day. As for the tree, it is pagan. I see nothing wrong with the giving of gifts if it is done with the right heart. The same with the feast. Let it be a day that is in celebration of the birth of our Lord. I found the following in a news article dated Nov 20,2006. The news article was on Walmart and how they greet their customers.
Wiccan High Priestess Selena Fox stated:
“Yule, the winter solstice, is a festival of peace and a celebration of waxing solar light. I honor the new sun child by burning a[n] oaken yule log in a sacred fire. I honor the great goddess in her many great mother aspects, and the father god as Santa in his old sky god, father time, and holly king forms. I decorate my home with lights and with holly, ivy, mistletoe, evergreens and other herbs sacred to this season. I ring in the new solar year with bells.”–Wiccan High Priestess Selena Fox
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47345So, the customs and date originated with pagans, people who worshipped false gods. These customs were practiced in honour of their gods.
And today, we see that pagans still celebrate these customs.You can put a “Christmas” stamp on it, but God almighty knows where these things come from.
We cannot be eating from the table of Jehovah and the table of demons.
The world celebrates Christmas. Satan is the “ruler of the world,” according to Jesus. I wonder if Satna had any influence in spreading this pagan holiday and trying to connect it to Christ.“I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?” “What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?”—1 Cor. 10:20-22; 2 Cor. 6:15, 16
2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””You can say that Jesus birth somehow conquers the evil. But this is a lie. Jesus wasn't born on that date. This is the date of an ancient festival honouring the sun god.
Really, “what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?”Can anyone answer that? Do righteousness and lawlessness fellowship together?
I've come across the quotes before about the wiccan celebrating Christmas much the way so called Christians do. It strikes me that this is obviously a pagan holiday. Always has been. It was born that way. It still is that way. Wrap a bow on it. It is still pagan. Call it another name and lie saying it's Jesus birthday. It's still pagan. Since the world celebrates it and a lot of the world aren't Christians, I can't help but wonder how many people who celebrate Christmas actually even believe in Jesus. A few years ago, more letters were sent to Santa world from Japan than any other country. People are taught to believe in Santa (and indirectly Satan). This holiday to me, isn't so much about Jesus (because Jesus hates lies and paganism) as it is about lawlessness, lies, forced giving, fairy tales, paganisms, falsification of Bible truths, as with the wise men, etc.
You can say that you take part in none of these things. You can say that is how “they” celebrate Christmas, not me.
Where is the Bible command to celebrate Christmas? Here is a command:2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””Questions:
Should you attempt to incite Jehovah to jealousy by imitating customs that look like you're worshipping false gods?Are you stronger than God?
What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?
(Is there harmony between Christ and Satan, or between Christ and lies, or between Christ and false gods? I can't see how any reasoning person would think so.)What portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?
(We have many many many unbelievers who celebrate this holiday that unbelievers started. What portion does a faithful person have with unbelievers?)What agreement does God’s temple have with idols?
(Does it have any agreement with false gods in any way at all?)david
Hi david,
Does any moral choice have relevance unless we have been saved?
Put another way do good moral choices save us?Quote Hi david,
Does any moral choice have relevance unless we have been saved?Maybe if you're still in Babylon the Great, you haven't been saved. He who endures to the end is the one that WILL be saved.
What does have relevence, and perhaps the only thing that has relevence, is pleasing God.
Hi david,
Is it possible to please God in our own behaviours and attitudes? Is that what saves us, plus endurance? Does endurance mean not changing any of those ideas and attitudes? Can we save ourselves then?Quote Is it possible to please God in our own behaviours and attitudes? Is that what saves us, plus endurance? Does endurance mean not changing any of those ideas and attitudes? Can we save ourselves then? You keep speaking of saving yourself. Isn't pleasing God more important?
Hi david,
Well that is what I am saying because your focus on moralism suggests you really believe good morals impress God enough to justify us before Him and to save us. Is that what you do believe?Hi david,
We are all dressed in filthy rags like Joshua.
1And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.2And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.”
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.We cannot see or smell our filth but neither can we make our rags like new.
We need the robe of Righteousness of the Son of God.
Lk 15
22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:We cannot save ourselves by our own actions.
Matthew 16:25
“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.Does God want us writing a new moral law? Will that please him?
The new Law is already written on our hearts if we have done the most important thing.
” seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything will be added to you”
We enter that kingdom now and know it's fullness later.
Quote Well that is what I am saying because your focus on moralism suggests you really believe good morals impress God enough to justify us before Him and to save us. Is that what you do believe? It is you who always mentions being saved when ever I bring things like this up. I don't remember ever bringing anything up about being saved.
My focus isn't on moralism, whatever that is. It's on discerning what God hates and avoiding it. Example: God hates lies. Christmas pretends to be the date of Jesus birth. This is a lie. Why sponsor it? Why be a part of it? Jesus followers would be no part of the world and it's ways. And, they aren't.All this talk about being saved has nothing to do with this practice that I believe God hates. Not celebrating Christmas has more to do with determining what God wants from us.
“I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?” —1 Cor. 10:20-22
2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””Quote Hi david,
We are all dressed in filthy rags like Joshua.Yes, but to decide to roll in the dirt, to choose to be of the world, and to be a friend of the world, and to celebrate what the world celebrates, and what the pagans celebrated and still celebrate and to do so in a way that resembles the way they did…. is not the will of God.
Quote We cannot see or smell our filth but neither can we make our rags like new. COLOSSIANS 3:10
“and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,”We can certainly shed the clothes of Babylon and put on new clothes, so to speak. Accurate knowledge of where these things originated and what the Bible says about God helps.
Quote We cannot save ourselves by our own actions.
I don't know why you keep telling me this. It is you who seem to believe this, not me.david
Any comment on why you don't think these scriptures apply:
1 CORINTHIANS 10:20-22
“I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?”2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””Hi david,
I am not saying that we should not make changes according to the inner leading of the Spirit.
What is useless is making changes without the Spirit in the hope of pleasing God and saving ouselves.
That is useless human religion and moralism.” Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit”
Quote I am not saying that we should not make changes according to the inner leading of the Spirit.
What is useless is making changes without the Spirit in the hope of pleasing God and saving ouselves.Doing things with the hope of pleasing God is a good thing.
Only doing something just to save yourself isn't the right attitude, but no one is arguing that.
Here is what the “spirit” says:1 CORINTHIANS 10:20-22
“I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?”2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””Now my question to you Nick Hassen, is: Why don't you think these things apply?
I just googled: “Wiccan Christmas”
The first thing I got was this:
The sun is at its nadir, the year's longest night. We internalize and synthesize the outward-directed activities of the previous summer months. Some covens hold a Festival of Light to commemorate the Goddess as Mother giving birth to the Sun God. Others celebrate the victory of the Lord of Light over the Lord of Darkness as the turning point from which the days will lengthen. The name “Yule” derives from the Norse word for “wheel”, and many of our customs (like those of the Christian holiday) derive from Norse and Celtic Pagan practices (the Yule log, the tree, the custom of Wassailing, et al).
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/1614/Celtwicc/Wicca/Wicca04.htmAnd another site:
Do many witches celebrate Christmas (in a secular present-giving way) as well?
[LR] I should think that almost all of them do. Calls to ban Christmas and not celebrate it have always come from within sections of the Christian community (e.g., the Jehovah’s Witnesses) who, quite rightly, see Christmas as a Pagan festival.
http://www.witchology.com/contents/interviews/yule_winter_solstice.phpPagan symbolism
Yet there is a deep, and seasonal, irony here – one that might come as a shock to the “Save Merry Christmas” crowd.
For Christmas is, in its origins and its symbolism, perhaps the most pagan-inspired of all Christian holidays. Its dating derives from the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia, which was determined by the winter solstice, that astronomical point in the year after which the periods of sunlight on Earth lengthen.
And that's not all that contemporary Christians have in common with neo-pagans. Most of the popular symbols surrounding Christmas – evergreen trees and other greenery, mistletoe and holly, the Yule log, candles and bonfires and holiday lights, mystical spirits with the ability to fly and to enter and leave a house through its chimney, tricksters who treat or taunt little children, not to mention those elves – all derive from older, pre-Christian Europe.
http://news.yahoo.com/s….ergence90% of people in the world celebrate Christmas. What percentage of the world claims to be Christian?
People claiming to be Christians make up roughly 33% of all people.THEREFORE, 2 OUT OF 3 PEOPLE THAT CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN JESUS. THIS IS NOT A “CHRISTIAN” HOLIDAY.
It started in paganism. It's still pagan. It's celebrated by more pagans and people who don't even believe in Jesus than by people who do.
It's those who claim to follow Jesus who have therefore apparently decided to celebrate this worldly pagan lie of a holiday with the world. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
It started with false gods. It is still celebrated by neo pagans today. The customs and the date are the same. It is only the lie that it is Christ's birth that has been added!
I can't imagine that the God of the Bible would ever condone mixing of paganism and this holiday with true worship.
I ask again: How do these scriptures apply?
1 CORINTHIANS 10:20-22
“I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?”2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””david
“The Real Meaning of Christmas
What is the Pagan secret that Christianity has tried to keep from you? The truth about Christmas is that it is not Christmas at all. It is the Winter Solstice, a Pagan holy day observed around the world and since time imemorial from the Native American tribes, to the Norsemen, to the ancient Romans, and today by modern Pagans, Witches and Wiccans.”http://www.witchology.com/contents/december/yule/index.php
Kind of has to make you wonder…when you know it started in paganism, and is still practiced by pagans and that more pagans and Hindu's and Muslims and Athiests and Buddhists, etc celebrate it than people claiming to be “Christian.”
I wonder if the “opposer” (Santa, I mean, Satan) who is called “slanderer, liar” (devil) has anything to do with this?
1 JOHN 5:19
“We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.”
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