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Hi Samuel,
Satan offers us sham substitutes for the ways of God.
He keeps men distracted and busy with worldly religion so they forget their primary service.Hi Samuel,
Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God:How can we listen when we are busy with the world's stuff.
Quote I never even heard of Ishtar. So I certainly haven't been celebrating Ishtar. I just find this comment funny because “Ishtar” is pronounced “easter.”
Quote So Jesus is sweating blood and we are eating chocolate bunnies.
Oh GOD please forgive us even of our sins…Lord for we know not what we do.Samuel. You are wise as well as humble. And you have not only hit the nail on the head precisely, but you shattered it. It is insanity. Complete insanity. Complete blindness.
Quote Samuel We live in a crazy society, don't we? Jesus never told us to celebrate His resurrection, but what He did say; Whenever you eat my flesh and drink my blood do it in memory of me. Nothing about His dead or His resurrection. People just go by tradition, which God said not to do either. Come out ot Her my people. When will we listen? Peace and Love Mrs.
Another excellent point Seek. We are commended to “keep doing this in remembrance of me.” It was his death that and all that it means that merits our remembrance and that should be memorialized. Yes, of course he was resurrected. But it is his sacrificial death that means so much.
Quote we did not promote those ideas to our children as sooooo important. –lightenup.
Lightenup, I don't know of anyone who does promote the mimicking of paganism as “soooo important.” Everyone is told it's all about Jesus and everyone tells themselves that. But if it's all about Jesus, then why incorporate things Jesus would never ever ever want to be a part of?
I mean, the very day itself “easter” is named after “Ishtar” (h is silent) a false god!
Today, I was at someone's home, someone who is in no way a Christian. Guess what I saw? Colored eggs. Does this have anything really to do with Jesus?
The truth is, more people who aren't Christian celebrate Christmas than “Christians” do. It started out a worldly holiday. It is still celebrated by the world.
Christians are to be “no part of the world.” Yet, many claiming to be Christian go along with whatever the world says is fun.Samuel's comment is still in my mind: Jesus was sweating blood, or as if drops of blood, and people are eating chocolate bunnies. It is …. horrible.
Quote I have participated in giving easter baskets, egg hunts, and giving chocolate bunnies but never in a way to promote worship of such things. NEVER! Ya, and I like to hand out little buddha's to people and little statues of “Ishtar” and other false gods, but I have never done so in a way that would promote worship of such things. It's just fun. Oh, and I like to connect those bad things with Jesus death. I'm sure he doesn't mind. Oh, and I call this day of Jesus resurrection “Easter” (Ishtar) the name of a fertility god. But, what is in a name?
Quote I think that many of you are blowing this out of porportion. Am I to be judged by you if I eat and enjoy chocolate that is in the shape of a log or a tree?
If I was walking along the street and I found a piece of chocolate in the shape of a tree, I'd have no problem eating it. (I love chocolate.)
But, if I knew that people used to worship a specific kind of tree, at a specific time of year, I would not decide to bring that tree into my house at that same time of year, each year and somehow connect it to worship of God Almighty.Quote would like ya'll to see that these activities can be bridges to meet non-christians
I've noticed this comment a lot. And really, this is how it began, sort of. They wanted to convert more pagans, so if the pagans worshipped evergreens and loved mistetoe, and exchanged gifts at the end of december, let's consecrate that tree, (said the pope) let's consecrate it to Christ and bring it into our worship.
Of course, this was wrong and against true Christian thought. You do not embrace badness and give it a new name.Quote Christmas and easter celebrations can be tools of evangelism.
Tell me about it! Hundreds of people say “merry Christmas” to me each year. Since I don't celebrate Saturnalia (now called Christmas) this often leads to discusions about the lies and paganisms of Christmas.Quote esus never told us that we were or WEREN'T to celebrate His resurrection did He?!
What the Bible is clear of is that mixing good with bad, true worship with false worship is completely and unquestionably wrong.Quote How many non-believers celebrate Yom Kippur? None that I know of except probably Jews.
If they sold this celebration to commercialism and borrowed from other fun influences and added some candy or chocolate, maybe more would. True.Quote I'll tell you what you do… Here is a litte experiment you can do at your home town…
Go out on the corner of a busy street and do a survey.
Start asking people what Christmas reminds them of …or What do they think of when someone says Christmas.Since the majority of people who celebrate Christmas don't even believe in Jesus, I'd have to say they're going to say: “Presents.” Either the fun of getting them, or the bother of “having” to buy them. And then the bother of having to return and exchange many of them. Yes, presents.
Quote Hi Nick,
Where does it say in the Bible that celebrating birthdays are the whore's imitation of the Jewish feasts? I can't find it.Ya, I couldn't find that in the Bible either. There are only two mentionings of birthdays in the whole Bible. Both were celebrated by enemies of God. Both included the death of one of God's servants. That's about it for mentionings of birthdays in the Bible. But, history is also quite interesting.
“Questions:
1. Why do you think the early Christians refused to celebrate birthdays (including Jesus birthday)? There is no record of Christians celebrating Jesus birth for hundreds of years. Why did they refuse to do so? (I can provide a string of quotes saying they didn't, if you like, showing that the early Christians regarded them as a practice for the pagans) They didn't just neglect to do so. They purposefully avoided celebrating them. My question to you: WHY? Why do you think? And DO YOU THINK THEIR REASONS ARE UNIMPORTANT? WHERE THE EARLIEST CHRISTIANS WRONG IN THEIR THINKING? IF SO, WHY?2. “ALL scripture is …. beneficial for teaching, for setting things straight.” (2 tim 3:16,17)
My second question to you: Why do the only two accounts of birthdays in the Bible (Pharoah and Herod) both involve bloodshed of God's servants? If all scripture including those scriptures are beneficial for teaching, what do we learn from them? Why does the Bible present birthdays in such a negative light? It is not just a coincidence that the only birthdays mentioned involved bloodshed. Looking at history, we see the same. So my question to you is: If the Bible presents birthdays this way, why disregard it? Are those accounts not part of the “all scripture” that is beneficial for setting things straight?
As well, if the very day of Jesus' birth is deliberately left out of the Bible, doesn't that fact tell us something? IF BIRTHDAYS SHOULD BE CELEBRATED, WHY DID GOD LEAVE THE DATE OF HIS OWN SON’S BIRTH OUT OF HOLY SCRIPTURE? Who’s birth was more important or more worthy of celebration? Yet, while being commanded to memorialize his death, no mention of celebrating his birth or no help in doing so. Why?3. Yes, lots of things are pagan. Lots of things have idolatrous roots. Birthdays are one of them. The birthday observance was common in many polytheistic cultures. Idolatrous rites were performed in honor of the patron god of each particular birthday, and birthdays of mythical gods like Saturn and Apollo were celebrated.
If you think the quotes are wrong and the customs or origins are wrong, I ask you why the birthday cake? Why the candles? Find a source that explains it in another way.
Over and over again in the references that I am looking at, I see that the early Christians didn't celebrate birthdays because of associating it with idolatry. Over and over again I see this. The Bible clearly condemns idolatry. (1 cor 6:9,10; Eph 5:5)
My question to you is: HAS GOD’S MEMORY FADED? WHAT DOES GOD THINK OF SUCH THINGS? God saw first hand where this celebration came from the the trail of blood that followed it. Is it just “innocent fun” to God? What do you think?4. There is no scripture that says: “Birthdays are a no no.” Yet, the earliest Christians did not seem divided on this. It didn't seem to be a matter of conscience to them, but it seemed clearly wrong, something they all avoided, as a group. Other than the apostate thinking that was prophesied, what has changed?
Birthday celebrations are rooted in idolatry and they have left a trail of blood. Faithful first century Chritians would not have felt like joining in a custom so darkly presented in the Bible and so gruesomely celebrated by the Romans. Today, sincere Christians realize that the Bible accounts about birthdays were among the things written for our instruction. (Rom 15:4)
Jesus and the apostles fortold and apostasy. Many things changed. I find the following quote very revealing:
“To the early Christians, birthdays were a pagan custom. It was unthinkable to celebrate one’s own birthday, much less the birthday of Christ. . . .In the next 300 years this attitude began to change, and in 354 A.D., the Bishop of Rome declared December 25 to be the anniversary of the birth of Christ.”–Frontier, Dec, 1981
THE PATTERN OF THE EARLIEST CHRISTIANS (remember, there was an apostasy foretold. The closer we get to the actual time of Jesus, the closer we get to the truth.)
“The early Christians,” states Professor Ferguson in his book The Religions of the Roman Empire, “did not celebrate the birthday of Jesus; it was unrecorded.” The World Book Encyclopedia explains: “The early Christians did not celebrate His [Christ’s] birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”–Vol. 3, p. 416.
“December 25 is a Christian festival and is observed as the anniversary of the birth of Christ. In early times this day was not one of the feasts of the Christian Church. In fact, the church fathers frowned upon the celebration of birthdays and thought them a heathen custom.”–New Book of Knowledge (1978), Vol. 3, p. 289.
According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, “the celebration of birthdays is unknown in traditional Jewish ritual.” Similarly, historian Augustus Neander writes: “The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general.”–The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries, translated by H. J. Rose, 1848, p. 190)
States Dr. John C. McCollister, a Lutheran minister, in his book The Christian Book of Why: “Christians of the first century did not celebrate the festival honoring the birth of Jesus—for the same reason they honored no other birthday anniversary. It was the feeling at that time by all Christians that the celebration of all birthdays (even the Lord’s) was a custom of the pagans.”WHY DID THE EARLY CHRISTIANS VIEW BIRTHDAYS THIS WAY?
Why did the early Christians view birthday celebrations as “a custom of the pagans”? Well, birthday observance was common in many polytheistic cultures. Idolatrous rites were performed in honor of the patron gods of each particular birthday, and birthdays of mythical gods like Saturn and Apollo were also celebrated.
The Encyclopedia Americana (1991 edition) states: “The ancient world of Egypt, Creece, Rome, and Persia celebrated the birthdays of gods, kings, and nobles.” Authors Ralph and Adelin Linton reveal the underlying reason for this. In their book The Lore of Birthdays, they write: “Mesopotamia and Egypt, the cradles of civilization, were also the first lands in which men remembered and honoured their birthdays. The keeping of birthday records was important in ancient times principally because a birth date was essential for the casting of a horoscope.”
This direct connection with astrology is a cause of great concern to any who avoid astrology because of what the Bible says about it.–Isaiah 47:13-15
“The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted
tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—The Lore of Birthdays (New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp. 8, 18-20.
“The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating—complete with lighted candles—in ancient times were meant to protect the birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year. . . . Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom.”—Schwäbische Zeitung (magazine supplement Zeit und Welt), April 3/4, 1981, p. 4.
It is no wonder that The Imperial Bible Dictionary comments: “The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with these days.”—(London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p. 225.
M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia agrees by saying Jews of Bible times “regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship . . . , and this probably on account of the idolatrous rites with which they were observed in honor of those who were regarded as the patron gods of the day on which the party was born.” (1882, Vol. I, p. 817)
Idolatry is the worship of false gods, something that the early Christians would never take part in. The Bible clearly condemns idolatry. It says that idolaters will not inherit God’s kingdom.–1 Cor 6:9,10; Eph 5:5 (Also see 1 Cor 5:9-11; 10:14)
So it would appear that the early Christians rejected the birthday celebration because it is rooted in idolatry. The words ‘pagan and ‘heathen’ which will be used quite often basically mean ‘idolatrous.’THE BIBLE SHEDS SOME LIGHT
Over and over again, we see that the early Christians didn’t celebrate birthdays because they considered them a pagan custom, but can we learn anything about the birthday celebration from the Bible?
The Catholic Encyclopedia, quoting Origen Adamantius of the third century says: “Of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicing over the day on which they were born into this world below.”–(New York, 1911), Vol. X, p. 709
Dr. R. S. Conway explains: “The great theologian Origen, early in the third century several times repeats a remark which he says he took from one of his predecessors, that no just man or Christian saint had ever kept a birthday, his own or anyone else’s. It was only evil persons like Pharaoh or Herod whose birthday celebrations were mentioned in the Scriptures. This shows pretty clearly that if he had ever heard of such a festival as Christmas he repudiated it entirely.”–Ancient Italy and Modern Religion
Even though most people today regard it as an innocent custom, the Bible does not paint a positive picture of this tradition. The only two birthdays the Bible does mention were for rulers who were enemies of God–Pharaoh and Herod. And each celebration included an execution, so that the guests could gloat over the death of the one who had displeased the king.
In the first instance, Pharah, the king of Egypt, (18th century B.C.E) executed his chief baker. (Gen 40:2,3,20,22) The Egyptian ruler did so during the feast because he had grown indignant with his servant.
In the second instance, Herod Antipas, the immoral ruler of Galilee in the 1st century C.E. beheaded John the Baptizer as a favor to a girl whose dancing at a party had pleased him.–Mat. 14:6-11
These are the only two birthday celebrations mentioned in the Bible. Is it just coincidental that they are mentioned and that both were for persons not having God’s approval? Or could it be that God deliberately had these details recorded in his Word, which he says is “beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight”? (2 Tim. 3:16) At the very least it can be said that these two accounts Biblically put birthday celebrations in a bad light, as a practice of those estranged from God.
However, the two Bible accounts of birthday celebrations are not as unique as it may first appear. The ancient Jewish historian Josephus reveals other instances of the practice of birthday executions for entertainment.
For example, some occured after Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 C.E., when 1,000,000 Jews perished and 97,000 survived to be taken prisoner. En route to Rome, Roman general Titus took his Jewish captives to the nearby seaport of Caesarea. Josephus writes: “While Titus remained at Caesarea, he celebrated his brother Domitian’s birthday with great splendor, putting over 2,500 prisoners to death in games with beasts and flames. After this he moved to Berytus [Beirut], a Roman colony in Phoenicia, where he celebrated his father’s birthday by killing many more captives at elaborate exhibitions.”—The Jewish War, VII, 37, translated by Paul L. Maier in Josephus: The Essential Writings.
So not only are birthday celebrations rooted in idolatry, but they have left a trail of blood. Faithful first-century Christians would not have felt like joining in a custom so darkly presented in the Bible and so gruesomely celebrated by the Romans. Today, sincere Christians realize that the Bible accounts about birthdays were among the things “written for our instruction.”–Rom. 15:4
Even though the Bible does not contain a specific prohibition against birthday celebrations, it does indicate that it is not proper to partake in just any celebration regardless of its reason or nature. (Ex 32:1-6; 1 Pet 4:3; 1 Cor 10:20,21)WHAT CHANGED?
“Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom.”—Schwäbische Zeitung (magazine supplement Zeit und Welt), April 3/4, 1981, p. 4.
Frontier, a publication of Frontier Airlines, observed: “To the early Christians, birthdays were a pagan custom. It was unthinkable to celebrate one’s own birthday, much less the birthday of Christ. It was sacrilege to even suggest that a Divine Being had a birthday. . . .In the next 300 years this attitude began to change, and in 354 A.D., the Bishop of Rome declared December 25 to be the anniversary of the birth of Christ.”–Dec. 1981.
If the early Christians considered it “unthinkable to celebrate one’s own birthday,” then what happened? As Frontier says, “In the next 300 years their attitude began to change.”
In fact, in the next few hundred years, they changed a lot of things. This apostasy had been foretold by Jesus and the apostles.Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2008,19:03) Quote So Jesus is sweating blood and we are eating chocolate bunnies.
Oh GOD please forgive us even of our sins…Lord for we know not what we do.Samuel. You are wise as well as humble. And you have not only hit the nail on the head precisely, but you shattered it. It is insanity. Complete insanity. Complete blindness.
Let me clear something up that neither of you seem to realize. The resurrection celebration is about the resurrection, the victory over death. He was far from sweating blood on that first resurrection day. He was completely healed. So your point is in error and not wise at all. Must you continually focus on the negative and miss the positive message, David?Wow David that was a very good point that you made.
Yes, its very sad to report that a lot of things changed.
I really wish I had time to explain my beliefs and illustrate them efficiently. But I don't have the time or the ability, so I'll just go ahead and make the statement.
PhariseesBy the time Jesus had came they had “Warped” GODS word so badly…he had to rebuke about everything that they did that we can tell from reading the bible. They were completely wrong about almost everything.
…
Much like the men in Modern Christianity today. The resemblance extremely coincides rather ironically.
You would think that after seeing an event of such Grace and Mercy the people would not do such things ever again…
Just like when they were brought out of Egypt…yet they completely forsook GOD altogether and fashioned themselves a Golden Calf (A new GOD) and proceeded to worship it.
…
Now we all do this…don't we…? We go pray through…then the next day we completely forsake GOD in a fit of anger…or when things don't go the way we want them too. Or whatever…we are an impatient creature by nature it seems.
Thus Jesus is going to have a host more rebuking to do once he returns.
Satan is still loose on this world, influencing people. Just look at all the obtuse, obscene, and quite blatant and perverse views on the scripture in the bible. (This very topic for example)Over the years man just gets “laxed”…forgets about what GOD actually did for them.
“Oh…Its ok, GOD don't care”
from this to this:
“What GOD?”GOD has always had to come “Fix” us. All the way back sense day one.
Genesis 3
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Does any of this rang any bells?
Here's some more…Exodus 32
1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
9And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
11And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
12Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
15And Moses turned, and went down from the
mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.16And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
17And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.
18And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.
19And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.
20And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.
21And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?
22And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.
23For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
24And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.
25And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)
26Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
27And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
28And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
29For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves today to the LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.
30And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
31And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
34Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
35And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.
And so now look at us…
All that GOD did for us through Jesus Christ.
And look at us.Yeah the original Christians such as the Apostles, have faded.
Time went on this got forgotten…and that got forgotten…this got “Laxed” and that got “Laxed”.Most churches are so “Laxed” now that you don't even have an alter call…in fact…they will even pray the pray for you and get you saved…all you have to do is sit in their church pay them money and you don't have to say anything…or get ashamed by getting up and walking to the front of the church to pray or nothing.
“Things have changed”No they have not…really the same way you repent now is the way you did it them.
You confessed with YOUR mouth and Believed on Jesus Christ and was Baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.Its in the bible.
What really kills me is they way people profess to know the bible and yet never read it.
But they can tell you what it says.Yeah…every one is going to be doing something wrong…I do stuff wrong…And I'm probably harder on myself about it that GOD is on me. I mess up and I really beat myself down.
I just desire to be so perfect …yet I always fail it seems.But GOD always forgives me. Thanks to the power of the blood of the Lamb. I can pray and talk to GOD just like I'm talking to you.
Satan don't want you to do that…why? Because he knows GOD will hear you.
Pagen religion is of the devil…there is a lot of things that seem to be “Overlooked” these days.
As you all know I'm Pentecostal…I was raised under a Trinity and now I go to a Oneness church. (Yes, I believe they both have flaws…and the people in the churches or most often far from perfect themselves.)
However, I just wanted to let you know why I'm probably going to step on some toes here…T.V. Ah…nothing is wrong with T.V. …well maybe your right.
Are you planning on taking your T.V. to Heaven with you? haha
“GOD I can't come out and praise today …I have to watch Stargate Atlantis”
Hey…I'm preaching to myself too…I love Stargate Atlantis…I had to give it up.
It was cutting into my prayer time…my reading time. And becoming an Idol for me. Just like the Video Games.Or this or that or whatever…I'm not saying your gonna be “French Fried” for watching T.V. GOD has not told me personally “Hey Samuel tell the people they will fry if they watch T.V.”
haha
Please don't be ridiculous?The whole point in giving up something like “T.V.” Is sacrifice, just like when you fast…I'm sure everyone that says they are a Christian has tried to at least fast at some point or another. Thats sacrifice…its the same exact concept. You are at that point denying the flesh of something that it wants.
“Killing yourself for Christ.”
“Yeah there are some good Christian shows…I've watched them”
I'm not saying throw out your T.V.
I'm just saying quit watching it more than you read your bible and pray, and fast…which if we were to be honest with ourselves we could all admit that we don't do those things enough. Especially if we watch T.V. all the time. Or in my case it was Video Games…I would play Video Games 24 hours or more straight at a time. I never read my bible.Yeah…thats bad.
We can't continue to do stuff like this and then…well the Glorious thing about it is the Un-ending Mercy that our GOD has for us through the Blood of Jesus Christ.
That is no way to treat a friend though…no is it?
Would you treat your friend like that?
Look at your wife…how mad she gets cause you watch football and won't spend time with her…How do you think GOD feels?Or how many friends do you think you'd have if you spent all day playing World of Warcraft?
~Raises Hand~
Oh! me me!…
I can answer that one…NONE…I know I've been there …done that. Its of a Pagen religion…its a tool of Satan…and (For me anyway) if you play it for 30 minutes…you'll play it for 30 hours.You know it and I of all people know it. I've done it.
I'm not talking out of the back of my head here. Or trying to upset you…or condemn you all to Hell.
THATS THE LAST THING THAT I'D WANT TO SEE.
I wish every single person went to heaven. I don't want to see even my (What I consider my worst enemy) to go to hell.
And trust me I've been done pretty bad…I mean I've really been done bad…Put it this way…I had a stepmother…yeah it was bad really really bad. She did super horrible things to me.Guess what…I want to walk down the streets of Gold With her.
I'm trying to help you people. Please don't get mad at m
e. I don't want you mad at me. I know some of you will though.I just wish that you would see the reason behind all of this rather then get so “heated” and blow up on people. I know…I do it…yeah I get mad…I know how it is.
But we have to win this fight. We can't let Satan win…
And for me…if that means Not worshiping a Red Santa Clause Suit
Or and Easter Bunny,
Or a T.V.
Or a MMORPG
Or a Can of snuff…Man I used to love my Copenhagen.
Or a Lust for a pretty girl
Or wearing long sleeves shirts all year roundI'm preaching to myself more then any of you most likely just so you all know.
…Or whatever the case may be. I've decided I'm going to at least make the effort to do whats right….and GOD rewards effort.
We've got too.
Oh GOD help us. Give us the strength to see your wisdom even though we remain rebellious, and ignorant ….Lord please have mercy on our souls…Lord Help us to do your will, keep a hedge around us, and let your Holy Spirit convect our hearts of things we don't need to be doing….In Jesus' Name I pray…AMEN!
To all,
Thank you all for your input towards my thoughts. I think that I will take a break with this forum for now. It will be good to take these matters before the Lord. Whatever I celebrate, I hope to celebrate for the Lord and give thanks. Past customs are not going to control me and tell me what I should or should not do today, God's spirit gets to do that. God can work all things out for His good. I want to grow in my love for Him and others.
Rom 14:5-105 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
NASUThere are going to be differences amongst us as the above passage says. May God bless us one and all!
Lightenup! Good Bye for now and have a good break. I hope that you pray about all the things that well meaning people like Samuel and David have shown you. It is not easy, I know to put your head under the pillow and say; God could I have been wrong? Coming out of the Catholic Church I had to do that with many subjects. The last one was the preexisting of Jesus. Another controversial subject, that so many do not want to believe and find all sorts of ways to interpret scriptures.
Please don't feel offend, that is not my intention. Just want to give you some advice, and I hope you take that advice and at least study all the scriptures with an open mind.
So my Friend I wish you all the happiness and Love of God, and hope to hear from you again soon.
With all my LovePeace and Love Mrs.
Quote If God hates something do you think you should do it? If I know that my friend hates Cigarette Smoke I do not smoke in front of Him. Would you? You see what I am trying to say here. So does David. –seek and you will find.
In view of your comment and not responding to Nick's question, without reply, I'll assume you do smoke, until told otherwise.
Since tobacco was unknown in the Middle East in Jesus’ days, the Bible does not mention it. Nevertheless, there are appropriate Bible principles to help us make a wise decision in this matter.
POLLUTION/UNCLEAN
Those who want to please God must follow the Bible’s command to “cleanse [themselves] of every defilement of flesh and spirit.”
(2 Corinthians 7:1)
Smoking is without doubt a defilement, or a pollution, of the flesh.
A smoker pollutes his clothes, the air around him, and of course his body, which when it becomes polluted enough, breaks down because of this.
In 2006 the World Health Organization described tobacco use as “the second major cause of death in the world.”
Smoking harms our bodies, and is unclean. (Romans 6:19; 12:1; 2 Corinthians 7:1)AN ADDICTION
Paul, when speaking about foods, said: “I will not let myself be brought under authority by anything.” (1 Corinthians 6:12) Paul was free to eat any kind of food, but he knew that some people back there had sensitive consciences. So he said he was not so “addicted” to certain foods that he could not give them up if he had to in order to keep from stumbling others. If a person cannot stop smoking tobacco, he is definitely ‘under its authority.’ So Paul’s statement on the matter of food is a good guideline for tobacco use. We should not allow ourselves to become enslaved by a habit.LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR (Matthew 22:39)
Smoking hurts others. Secondhand cigarette smoke is “more dangerous than anyone suspected.” In the 18 months following a ban on smoking in offices, restaurants, and other indoor spaces in Pueblo, Colorado, U.S.A., the number of heart attacks among residents fell by 27 percent.—TIME, U.S.A.
“Studies have shown that since the average smoker actively smokes his cigarette for only a small portion of the time it is lit, a nonsmoker may actually be forced against his will to breathe almost as much carbon monoxide, tar and nicotine as the active smoker sitting next to him.” (Today’s Health, April 1972, p. 39) A person who is thus unloving toward his fellowman does not give evidence of loving God either.—See 1 John 4:20.david.
(I know this isn't the right thread, but I doubt there is a thread, and I don't see a need to start one, or even have this conversation.)Seek, your words:
Quote Please don't feel offend, that is not my intention. Just want to give you some advice, and I hope you take that advice and at least study all the scriptures with an open mind. Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2008,18:41) Quote If God hates something do you think you should do it? If I know that my friend hates Cigarette Smoke I do not smoke in front of Him. Would you? You see what I am trying to say here. So does David. –seek and you will find.
In view of your comment and not responding to Nick's question, without reply, I'll assume you do smoke, until told otherwise.
Since tobacco was unknown in the Middle East in Jesus’ days, the Bible does not mention it. Nevertheless, there are appropriate Bible principles to help us make a wise decision in this matter.
POLLUTION/UNCLEAN
Those who want to please God must follow the Bible’s command to “cleanse [themselves] of every defilement of flesh and spirit.”
(2 Corinthians 7:1)
Smoking is without doubt a defilement, or a pollution, of the flesh.
A smoker pollutes his clothes, the air around him, and of course his body, which when it becomes polluted enough, breaks down because of this.
In 2006 the World Health Organization described tobacco use as “the second major cause of death in the world.”
Smoking harms our bodies, and is unclean. (Romans 6:19; 12:1; 2 Corinthians 7:1)AN ADDICTION
Paul, when speaking about foods, said: “I will not let myself be brought under authority by anything.” (1 Corinthians 6:12) Paul was free to eat any kind of food, but he knew that some people back there had sensitive consciences. So he said he was not so “addicted” to certain foods that he could not give them up if he had to in order to keep from stumbling others. If a person cannot stop smoking tobacco, he is definitely ‘under its authority.’ So Paul’s statement on the matter of food is a good guideline for tobacco use. We should not allow ourselves to become enslaved by a habit.LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR (Matthew 22:39)
Smoking hurts others. Secondhand cigarette smoke is “more dangerous than anyone suspected.” In the 18 months following a ban on smoking in offices, restaurants, and other indoor spaces in Pueblo, Colorado, U.S.A., the number of heart attacks among residents fell by 27 percent.—TIME, U.S.A.
“Studies have shown that since the average smoker actively smokes his cigarette for only a small portion of the time it is lit, a nonsmoker may actually be forced against his will to breathe almost as much carbon monoxide, tar and nicotine as the active smoker sitting next to him.” (Today’s Health, April 1972, p. 39) A person who is thus unloving toward his fellowman does not give evidence of loving God either.—See 1 John 4:20.david.
(I know this isn't the right thread, but I doubt there is a thread, and I don't see a need to start one, or even have this conversation.)Seek, your words:
Quote Please don't feel offend, that is not my intention. Just want to give you some advice, and I hope you take that advice and at least study all the scriptures with an open mind. 
I am sitting here with my Oxygen in my nose, very uncomfortable and laughing. I never really smoked. I just had a puff or two from my Husband cigarette, and He just did that only on the Weekend, so you could not consider us smokers.
It is not really funny, tho. I had Asthma since I was 21 years old and have suffered very much, because were ever I went others smoked. I could not go to a Restaurant without fighting with the Waitress first, so I could have a seat the furthest away from the smokers, and then I still smelled the horrible stuff. Then there were the Ambulance rides to the Hospital not be able to breath right. Not fun, let me tell you.
Do I sound angry? I think I am still, because I am still suffering, because of other peoples ignorance.
What was the subject?
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote growing up we never celebrated christmas. i wast told that it originated for pagan worship and that was that. however i had read and seen historical facts that state that indeed it was a roman worship on the 25th to the sun god, for they were in hard dark times and used it to celebrate and time for celebration to shed light upon such drearty times. the christian chruch or christianity congregation at that time already was holding a time for jesus's death and was acknowldged by the romans also.they wanted to convert over those not fully worshipping god and his son so they used that date also to honor christs birth and made the transition for them very easy to do. the christian group did not mind them having a good time as long as they honored and worshipped christ.
that is not the same as what i was taught. that is not the same as the pagan worship of the sun being transfered over to christian faith at all.
it was a coverting tool used and does not represent sun worship at all. there are no scritures that say it is wrong to honor christs birth so if one puts up strict laws regarding this does not make it right. also it does not make it wrong to do.
such as the puritans used strict views becasue they wanted to try to safeguard there life, but that doesn't mean it is scriptually forbidden or wrong.
–peace2all
Hi Terricca and Peace2all.
Please continue your conversation here….
however i had read and seen historical facts that state that indeed it was a roman worship on the 25th to the sun god, for they were in hard dark times and used it to celebrate and time for celebration to shed light upon such drearty times. the christian chruch or christianity congregation at that time already was holding a time for jesus's death and was acknowldged by the romans also.they wanted to convert over those not fully worshipping god and his son so they used that date also to honor christs birth and made the transition for them very easy to do. the christian group did not mind them having a good time as long as they honored and worshipped christ.
that is not the same as what i was taught. that is not the same as the pagan worship of the sun being transfered over to christian faith at all.
Hi Peace2all. What you outlined above: it was a roman worship on the 25th to the sun god, for they were in hard dark times and used it to celebrate and time for celebration to shed light upon such drearty times. the christian chruch or christianity congregation at that time already was holding a time for jesus's death and was acknowldged by the romans also.they wanted to convert over those not fully worshipping god and his son so they used that date also to honor christs birth and made the transition for them very easy to do.
This is exactly what JW's believe. It's the next line that I would and can argue against:
the christian group did not mind them having a good time as long as they honored and worshipped christ.It's very true that the “Christian” group of those days (a few hundred years after Christ) did not mind them having a good time as long as Christ's name was attached to it. Sanctifiying things by putting Jesus or God's name on it is not a new endevour. The “festival to Jehovah” brought Jehovah's wrath and how many died that day? Jehovah did not accept it merely because of a name change, did he? It was pagan false worship, with a new name that made it sound better.
Calling paganism Christianity does not make it Christianity, does it? Mimicking or adopting pagan practices and customs does not fit at all in line with: “Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen,” (KJV)
Anyway, got off my point. By the 3d or 4th century, the “Christian group” was NOT a “Christian” group, any more than “Christmas” is a Christian holiday. The vast majority of people who celebrate Christmas do not even believe in Jesus. Just because something has the word “christ” in it, does not make it Christ-like. And just because the people in the 4th century were calling themselves “Christians,” does not mean they were.
All the prophecies about the false teachers, the weeds, etc. They all began and began rather soon, while the apostles were still alive, even. So, the fact that a few hundred years later, so called “Christians” thought it ok to do something, does not mean the thing they thought was ok.Quote that is not the same as what i was taught. that is not the same as the pagan worship of the sun being transfered over to christian faith at all. –peace2all.
Peace, when do you think Christmas (combination of the saturnalia and the birthday of mithras, the invincible sun god)…when do you think these things became ok for Christians? What century?
Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Feb. 28 2006,06:30) I believe to observe the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ and to observe his ressurection is key to our salvation. Without these two happenings we have no salvation. Giving gifts at christmas I see not as wrong. For it is better to give than recieve, and to sacrifice your money to get something someone needs. Which should not be only a one day thing, we should help all the time.
Although I do abhor how commercialized and non-christian it has become. Most people become wrapped up in the rush of Christmas, and the give me, give me, give me of the holiday. Now Santa gives you a present, on the same day that God the Father gave us a present. Santa(which is kinda weird in that if you scramble the letters it says Satan, which could be just a coincidence) is the one who sees you if your sleeping, and rewards those whom have done good, and punish those with coal who did bad. It seems to be easier now a days to believe he mysteriously comes down a 1' by 1' chimney stack(after all those cookies he has eaten), with his belly( shakes like a bowl full of jelly) and a huge sack of toys(which holds all the children of the world's toys) after flying in on magical flying reindeer who pull a huge and heavy sled, to dump off the toys they really want(which kids have demanded from santa as long as they are good), eat the food, and get the heck outta there(the same way he came down,[now the first time gravity might have helped him], but not this time), and fly to the next house, YET HAS NEVER TRULY BEEN SEEN. Then to believe in an Almighty God. Christmas of today was truly the Birth of The Almighty Santa(or Satan). Satan takes the goodness of God and swirls it about until he gets what he wants people to see.
Now we come to Easter. Oh boy, atleast Santa is a man, and not a 6' bunny who would truly frighten most kids. Again this wonderful day of the Ressurection of Our Lord(and God), Jesus Christ has been turned into an atrocity. Commercialization of Easter, and again the gimme spirit attacks. Now a 6' bunny parades around the world, hiding eggs(of no real value) for little kids to find(when they should be looking for salvation). So instead of finding truth they find an egg, instead of getting eternal life they get a basket of chocolate, instead of seeing the miracle of Easter they see the commercialization of Easter. They are being taught that is a holiday for tradition, same as Christmas. The fact the word Christmas has Christ in it is irrelavent to people.
The workers of Satan know what importance these two days have to us. So they belittle them and try to take God out of both. They say, “let there be no association of God or Christ in these two days for we are a nation not bound by one religion but many”. But they use guile and deception to trick those who are not yet saved.
Christ was not born on Christmas Day. He was born in September beginning of October. The Bible does not teach us to celebrate His Birthday and only those Birthday that are mentioned are evil. It was the Daughter of Herod who wanted the Head of John the Baptist and got it. Also if you look into any Encyclopedia it will show you that Dec. 25 is first known to have been celebrated by the pagan festival. (natalis solis invicti) which at the winter solstice begin an increase of light. Dec. 25 is the longest night and afterwards the days begin to increase. The pagan celebrated the Sun on that day. A week long. There are several Article in the Britannica Encyclopedia. If you want to know about it go to the Library I am sure they have something on it.
Also Easter is not commanded in the Bible only the Passover is. Both are pagan. Since we have Family and they do celebrate Christmas I do buy Presents for them. Its their Christmas, they don't understand it and I don't want them to feel insulted by what they think its Christ Birthday. In the past I did not for about 15 years and it hurt them. But we have no decoration of any kind in our House. Those also are pagan. I am always glad when all of this is over with.
Peace and Love Irene
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