- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote Celebrate the birth of Y'shua. In your opinion Laurel, why did the earliest Christians not celebrate his birth, or anyone else's?
You speak of light and try to connect the light of Christmas to Jesus.
The reason people brought light into their homes around that time of year (which wasn't Jesus birthday) was because they were trying to revive the dying sun, as it stayed out less and less. It was a form of magic, sympathetic magic, where doing one thing will have a similar result. They held holly, misltoe and evergreens with special significance, because these seemed to have some sort of power against winter, not losing their foliage.The Pope's instructions were to take the tree worshipping people and let them keep their practices, but to concsectrate these things to Christ, to put a Christian name on them.
The magoi, or magi were not “wise men” but astrologers from Chaldea. And yes, they gave gifts to Jesus, not to each other.
The practice of “exchanging gifts” comes from paganism, from the Roman Saturnalia, which if I remember correctly, was a week long festival, the week before our present day Christmas.Jesus had said:
JOHN 18:37
“For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.””If Jesus was born to bear witness to the truth, what sense does it make to surround that birth with lies, myths, paganism, commercialism, etc?
I ask this again:
In your opinion Laurel, why did the earliest Christians not celebrate his birth, or anyone else's?David, My point about the lights at christmas and the lights of Hanuakah are both in December. Y'shua said at the celebration of Hanakuah that He is the light of the world!
Also the “manger” at Christmas time is a replica of a Tabernacle.
I am not saying that Christmas is proper, I'm saying some of the traditions of Tabernacles and Hanuaka are mixed in Christmas and remain still today as a reminder to those who forgot Tabernacles.
As far as the early Christains… Christainity was formed out of mixing pagen belief with the true. This is called twisting the truth. Also is where the word wicked comes from. Wicked is twisted like the wick of a candle or braided like a wicker basket.
The early followers of Messiah were put in prision or murdered for folowing the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) and His Feasts.
This was done for the selfishness of the early church leaders, who thought it nice to have power over all. It was clearly a way to get believers from both sides, sun-worship and Son.
Your JW church is lukewarm when it comes to the truth of doctrine, just like every other religion, poluted by man's traditions. What day do you worship on? Why not worship on the day commanded by YHWH. When you follow Scripture you can question anything I say, and I will give weight to it, untill then I say to you Y'shua is our Savior. His birthday was important enough for Elohim to create a constalation to proclaim His birth. It must be quite a big deal to Elohim, why not the JW's? Just wondering?
No I'm not picking on JW's. Sometimes I read the magazines in the laundry mat, and see a lot of truth there. I just wondered why if you celebrate the Jubilee, don't you follow the rest of the Feasts, and the Sabbaths.
Quote Your JW church is lukewarm when it comes to the truth of doctrine, just like every other religion, poluted by man's traditions. For a group that is lukewarm, we're sure…..not lukewarm.
Lukewarm means it's neither hot nor cold, uncaring.
This does not accurately describe the group known as JW's at all, to any degree.
Laurel Jesus never told us to keep his Birth Day. It has nothing to do with the Feast of Tabernacle. The Feast of Tabernacle represents the Millenium. The only day that Christ tells us to keep is the Passover.
Mrs.IM4TruthHere is the meaning of Scripture where is says, For one keeps one day more important than the next…..
All the Feasts are as important as all the Feasts. Why? Because these are the work of the Messiah. Perfect, and inspired by Elohim.
When you begin to pick apart what is and is not important, that is the same as picking apart the commandmants. We are not the authour and we do not have the right to change anything.
How should we celebrate Passover? The Way Scripture tells us to. Not how some human being that imagined rules for one paticular church says to do it.
David,
I'm not choosing to pick on JW's out of all the man-made churches. I am saying that the JW church like all man-made churches does not follow all the commands written with the finger of Elohim (God). Because we follow man-made doctrine, we miss out on many of the truths that could otherwise be revealed in Scripture through the Set-apart Spirit. It is our duty to search out the truths hidden in Scripture, and lean not on our own understanding. Psalm 118:8 (the heart of the Scriptures) and at the heart of Scripture is the name YHWH. YHWH rendered as LORD.Luke warm as interpreted by you is only part of the meaning of it. Luke warm is being only part righteous. Partly correct and partly incorrect. The doctrine is luke-warm, and the people are luke warm because of it. You may be passionate about being luke-warm, but that doesn't change the fact of luke-warm.
I am for truth, study the 10 commandments in Duet 5 and the Feasts in Lev. 23.
I just want to point out a couple things to know. First, they are the commands and Feasts of YHWH; His, they are HIS.
Secondly, the 4th command and the reason for it compares exactly for the reasons we keep all the Feasts. This reason: to keep us out of Babylon and the worship of the sun and all the evil that comes with that type of worship. See for youself!
Please study so you will be sure of what you teach, because if you are teaching falsly, you are responsible for it.
If Christians look for a reason to celebrate Jesus in an outwardly fashion that the world can recognize or see, true enogh some have lost the purpose of the celebration, but for the most part in the heart of the true Christian it's just another way us celebrating Christ in a way that the world can see. such as baptism, harvest time, communion, and even thanking God on our birthdays.
Quote (messiahnist @ Oct. 02 2007,07:17) If Christians look for a reason to celebrate Jesus in an outwardly fashion that the world can recognize or see, true enogh some have lost the purpose of the celebration, but for the most part in the heart of the true Christian it's just another way us celebrating Christ in a way that the world can see. such as baptism, harvest time, communion, and even thanking God on our birthdays.
Amen! I agree with you. However many on this site will not. That's OK, there are many opinions and views on this board, that is what makes it interesting around here.Welcome to HeavenNet!
MandyMandy This is really a hard time of the year for me, because X-mas is just around the corner. If Christ would have been born on Dec. 25 I would have no problem keeping His Birthday. But a Pagan God was born on that Day and that was a celebration that went on and on for a whole week. The first Christians compromised just so they could worship at all. It was Constantine that changed all. Why don't you do a study on Constantine once.
With all my Love Irene
messiahnist Welcome to the Website. You picked a really hard subject for your first post. The same advise that I gave Mandy, I would like to give to you! Make a study on Constantine.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (IM4Truth @ Oct. 02 2007,08:28) Mandy This is really a hard time of the year for me, because X-mas is just around the corner. If Christ would have been born on Dec. 25 I would have no problem keeping His Birthday. But a Pagan God was born on that Day and that was a celebration that went on and on for a whole week. The first Christians compromised just so they could worship at all. It was Constantine that changed all. Why don't you do a study on Constantine once. With all my Love Irene
Hi Sister,I have actually studied our Nicene forefather's in depth. I did this before I denounced the Trinity in 2003.
For me, I understand that Jesus' birthday was probably in September or October, but it doesn't matter that Decemeber was chosen as a “set” time to celebrate his birth. In fact, my birthday is in May and my sister's is in November, sometimes we celebrate both of our birthdays in August!
It doesn't matter that we are celebrating on the correct day, just that we are remembering one another.So, I don't see the problem with celebrating on December 25th even though Christ was probably born earlier. What is the problem? That our forefather's chose a date that the pagen's used to celebrate? So what! Is our God greater than their gods? You bet! Should our celebration be more joyful and even more blessed than theirs? You bet! And it is, too. While some here like to focus on the negativity of the nativity (boy that was clever, huh?), I would like to focus on the positive.
Some will say there are more suicides and drunken rages; I would like to submit there are more people brought to church on Christmas Eve. who receive Christ than any other time! I would like to offer that Christmastime is a time to spread joy and celebrate humanity; more folks contribute to charity's on Christmas than any other time during the year! And the list goes on………
But I certainly respect those who wish to not celebrate. I just feel sorry for them, especially if it bother's them, because it is a joyous time of the year to celebrate our dear Lord, AND to thank our glorious Father for giving us the greatest gift of all. God bless.
Quote (messiahnist @ Oct. 02 2007,07:17) If Christians look for a reason to celebrate Jesus in an outwardly fashion that the world can recognize or see, true enogh some have lost the purpose of the celebration, but for the most part in the heart of the true Christian it's just another way us celebrating Christ in a way that the world can see. such as baptism, harvest time, communion, and even thanking God on our birthdays.
Hi Messiahnist:Amen, and God bless you.
The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as “Sunday. So if you care to celebrate Christmas, then recognize that you are NOT celebrating Christ's birthday, but Mithras'.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 18 2007,14:58) The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as “Sunday. So if you care to celebrate Christmas, then recognize that you are NOT celebrating Christ's birthday, but Mithras'.
or you dont have to care about what day the event actually occured on at all. since none of the bible writers seemed to either and celebrate it publicly as a way of expressing your hope in Christ as a gift to all mankind from God.most people dont know the truth, about constantine or Mithra. Nobody here ever worships or honors either of these two.
Christmas is going to happen no matter how much small groups of christians try to act like its just another day and bring a general feeling of guilt and gloom to those who truly wish to publicly confess Christ.
How often does the secular world truly get exposed to the message of christ. Not often. Christmas time many people only go to church once a year just for Christmas.
I say any chance that someone could be touched by a message is good enough reason to celebrate christmas.
You dont have to decorate your house or a tree, but their certainly is anything wrong with singing a christmas song or exchanging a gift or sipping coco while carolers are at your front door.Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 18 2007,14:58) The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as “Sunday. So if you care to celebrate Christmas, then recognize that you are NOT celebrating Christ's birthday, but Mithras'.
I disagree. I'm actually surprised that you would make such a legalistic judgement, KJ.I realize that Christ was probably born in Sept./Oct. but as I said before, it doesn't have to be on the specific date; in fact, no one knows the specific date that Jesus was born! The main thing is that God knows our hearts. If we are celebrating to honor Christ and tell other's about salvation, then it has nothing to do with this Mithras fellow – who ever he is?
When I celebrate Christmas – I am celebrating Christ. I wouldn't care if it was in July, it just so happens that the world has chosen a date and there you go. If it happens to fall on a pagen holiday then so be it. Let the pagens celebrate what they will and leave me to worship and adore him.
Some preach Christ for gain while other's have a heart for the Lord. Paul said it didn't matter, so long as Christ was preached.
Bah-hum-bug!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 18 2007,00:30) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 18 2007,14:58) The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as “Sunday. So if you care to celebrate Christmas, then recognize that you are NOT celebrating Christ's birthday, but Mithras'.
I disagree. I'm actually surprised that you would make such a legalistic judgement, KJ.I realize that Christ was probably born in Sept./Oct. but as I said before, it doesn't have to be on the specific date; in fact, no one knows the specific date that Jesus was born! The main thing is that God knows our hearts. If we are celebrating to honor Christ and tell other's about salvation, then it has nothing to do with this Mithras fellow – who ever he is?
When I celebrate Christmas – I am celebrating Christ. I wouldn't care if it was in July, it just so happens that the world has chosen a date and there you go. If it happens to fall on a pagan holiday then so be it. Let the pagans celebrate what they will and leave me to worship and adore him.
Some preach Christ for gain while other's have a heart for the Lord. Paul said it didn't matter, so long as Christ was preached.
Bah-hum-bug!
How is it legalistic to say that Christmas falls on a pagan god's birthday? Because it is true? Mandy, most of the things about Christianity that have become common place are based on pagan practices. I thought you were a truth seeker?On one hand you deny the trinity — something that also derived from the influence of certain other mythologies — but on the other you are willing to accept other ideals associated with pagan practices. I realize that Christmas and the trinity do not compare in “severity”, but it still started as the celebration of a pagan god's birthday.
I have been doing much study lately. It is staggering how far Christianity has strayed from where it started. Much of this is due to the introduction of pagan influences that were introduced long ago and weren't quelled.
Don't forget the Christianity started as a “heretical cult” of Judaism. To the Jews of that day, it was just another offshoot. In fact, if Paul would have never gone to the Gentiles, it would have never made it off the ground and we would not be Christians today.
But also understand the Christianity grew up around many, many different pagan religions. Because these people did not grow up with the same way of life as practicing Jews, it was very easy for them to approach this new religion with many of their own ways of religion. And to make Christianity more “appealing” to them, more and more pagan ideals were introduced. Christmas and Easter were just two of these things.
This isn't about trying to get the world to stop celebrating Christmas. Like early Christianity, Christmas has been “hijacked” in any case. It is predominantly a secular day now, a way to get off work and make retail stores more money. Most Christians I know don't even talk about “the reason for the season” anymore. The reason for them has become a time of parties with eating and drinking and presents for the kids.
Before I knew better, I was outraged when more and more stores were having people say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. Now, I see it as a blessing because I would rather celebrate something as a purely secular holiday than associate Christ with the supposed birthday of a pagan god. I prefer setting another day aside that is closer to when Christ was actually born and celebrate that day, but not in the same way that I have always celebrated Christmas in the past: by giving others gifts. If it is your birthday, why would I give gifts to someone else?
But recall a very simple agreement made by those who met with Paul when he was bringing more and more Gentiles the Gospel. They agreed that circumcision was not required, but they did have a few requirements
Act 15:19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.What do idols signify? The worship of other gods. Associating Christ's birthday with the birthday of a pagan god runs eerily close to something “contaminated by idols”.
I don't judge others for celebrating Christmas. Like so many other things, their relationship with God is personal. I just won't be celebrating Christmas any more, at least not as Christ's birthday. I must be obedient to the leading of God in my life.
LG&LP,
KevinQuote (kejonn @ Oct. 18 2007,18:44) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 18 2007,00:30) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 18 2007,14:58) The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as “Sunday. So if you care to celebrate Christmas, then recognize that you are NOT celebrating Christ's birthday, but Mithras'.
I disagree. I'm actually surprised that you would make such a legalistic judgement, KJ.I realize that Christ was probably born in Sept./Oct. but as I said before, it doesn't have to be on the specific date; in fact, no one knows the specific date that Jesus was born! The main thing is that God knows our hearts. If we are celebrating to honor Christ and tell other's about salvation, then it has nothing to do with this Mithras fellow – who ever he is?
When I celebrate Christmas – I am celebrating Christ. I wouldn't care if it was in July, it just so happens that the world has chosen a date and there you go. If it happens to fall on a pagan holiday then so be it. Let the pagans celebrate what they will and leave me to worship and adore him.
Some preach Christ for gain while other's have a heart for the Lord. Paul said it didn't matter, so long as Christ was preached.
Bah-hum-bug!
How is it legalistic to say that Christmas falls on a pagan god's birthday? Because it is true? Mandy, most of the things about Christianity that have become common place are based on pagan practices. I thought you were a truth seeker?On one hand you deny the trinity — something that also derived from the influence of certain other mythologies — but on the other you are willing to accept other ideals associated with pagan practices. I realize that Christmas and the trinity do not compare in “severity”, but it still started as the celebration of a pagan god's birthday.
I have been doing much study lately. It is staggering how far Christianity has strayed from where it started. Much of this is due to the introduction of pagan influences that were introduced long ago and weren't quelled.
Don't forget the Christianity started as a “heretical cult” of Judaism. To the Jews of that day, it was just another offshoot. In fact, if Paul would have never gone to the Gentiles, it would have never made it off the ground and we would not be Christians today.
But also understand the Christianity grew up around many, many different pagan religions. Because these people did not grow up with the same way of life as practicing Jews, it was very easy for them to approach this new religion with many of their own ways of religion. And to make Christianity more “appealing” to them, more and more pagan ideals were introduced. Christmas and Easter were just two of these things.
This isn't about trying to get the world to stop celebrating Christmas. Like early Christianity, Christmas has been “hijacked” in any case. It is predominantly a secular day now, a way to get off work and make retail stores more money. Most Christians I know don't even talk about “the reason for the season” anymore. The reason for them has become a time of parties with eating and drinking and presents for the kids.
Before I knew better, I was outraged when more and more stores were having people say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. Now, I see it as a blessing because I would rather celebrate something as a purely secular holiday than associate Christ with the supposed birthday of a pagan god. I prefer setting another day aside that is closer to when Christ was actually born and celebrate that day, but not in the same way that I have always celebrated Christmas in the past: by giving others gifts. If it is your birthday, why would I give gifts to someone else?
But recall a very simple agreement made by those who met with Paul when he was bringing more and more Gentiles the Gospel. They agreed that circumcision was not required, but they did have a few requirements
Act 15:19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.What do idols signify? The worship of other gods. Associating Christ's birthday with the birthday of a pagan god runs eerily close to something “contaminated by idols”.
I don't judge others for celebrating Christmas. Like so many other things, their relationship with God is personal. I just won't be celebrating Christmas any more, at least not as Christ's birthday. I must be obedient to the leading of God in my life.
LG&LP,
Kevin
Well said kejonn!Quote I just won't be celebrating Christmas any more, at least not as Christ's birthday. So how would you celebrate Dec. 25th?
Yor eyes are being opened more and more
All these false doctrines are of the mother of Harlots the same author of the Trinity and false Sabbath.It is amazing is it not? Christianty is not really Christian for most it is like a society club with their OWN celebrations they call Christian.
I have told the Father “what a mess”! But we shouldn't be surprised it is as scripture said it would be in the last day.
I believe we are coming to the end of the harvest. Soon they won't be any wheat to put in the barn.
I know people are tired of hearing it But PLEASE come out of HER HIS people.
May the Lord have mercy on ALL of us, Amen!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
