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This is a good passage here:
1 Cor 6:16-20
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2011,16:17) This is a good passage here: 1 Cor 6:16-20
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Hmm I don't agree with that verse
and THAT'S A GOOD THING, because it means I can't trick myself or rationalize out the verse when i'm laying in bed thinking about “bad thoughts” and at the same time this verse.Hi BC&JW,
I found this link by Pastor Steve Van Natten.
Masturbation
Hope is gives some insight in your walk with God.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Tim Kraft @ April 13 2011,21:45) t8: Thank you sir: The law is absolutely and completely fulfilled, finished and completed. It was, then and cannot be the way to God now! The law is not of faith. Today is faith manifested. Faith through the words of Jesus unto God. It would have the same affect today as it had back then. It created sin and darkness.
But if the law is the knowledge of sin, and we are not sure if something is a sin, then surely the law is the perfect teacher?When the Bible teaches superiority of grace over law, it never does it by negating the law and it never elevates grace by stepping on or ignoring the law. The Bible says that “the law is good, the law is holy, the law is just,” The law was a teacher
Gal 3:24-25, “…the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith.
It is good to understand where law stands and where grace stands. The law is not to be ignored because of grace, rather it leads us to grace because it convicts us.
“But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.”
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 15 2011,15:32) To All……….Jesus said if a man looks upon a women (a married women) to lust after her , he has committed Adultery with her in his Heart. I put the words (married )in there because it would not be Adultery if the women was not married. the word adultery means breaking of Covenant, it has nothing to do with lust except to the degree it creates or causes an adulterous act. Jesus said if a Man puts a women away save for fornication, he causes her to commit adultery. Now how does he (the man) cause her to commit adultery, what if she has not herself committed the act of adultery? how doe she become a Adulteress , by the simple fact the man by putting her away causes her to break her covenant she made with the man when she married him the caused her to be and adulteress. And even More the one who marries the Women that was devoiced also is a Adultery how? because She now an adulteress and by marrying another man she became one with him and so what she is the man also she married became npow becomes an adulterer also.
Most people do not even know what Adultery really is nor what Fornication (falsehood) is either. Adultery is about breaking covenants, Fornication is about a False relationship a living LIE.
Jesus said… There are eunuchs who are born eunuchs from berth, and there were eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs for the kingdom of GOD'S sake. When a man is Castrated he no longer desires sex those hormones no longer are at work in his body and as a result he no longer desires sex Period. GOD can bring this about in a person he choses to , i believe Jesus was one such person , Daniel was also one and there were probably others also. As men age their testosterone begins to diminish and so does their sex desires also. If God has not removed this in your life it is a natural function for you to desire sex and cause you to act in was to relieve these desires working in you. In time it will diminish if not completely leave you. It is not a sin unless used wrongly it is a normal function of the body. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………gene
This is probably the first post I actually agree with that was written by Gene. Or maybe the first in a long time.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 15 2011,15:32) To All……….Jesus said if a man looks upon a women (a married women) to lust after her , he has committed Adultery with her in his Heart. I put the words (married )in there because it would not be Adultery if the women was not married. the word adultery means breaking of Covenant, it has nothing to do with lust except to the degree it creates or causes an adulterous act. Jesus said if a Man puts a women away save for fornication, he causes her to commit adultery. Now how does he (the man) cause her to commit adultery, what if she has not herself committed the act of adultery? how doe she become a Adulteress , by the simple fact the man by putting her away causes her to break her covenant she made with the man when she married him the caused her to be and adulteress. And even More the one who marries the Women that was devoiced also is a Adultery how? because She now an adulteress and by marrying another man she became one with him and so what she is the man also she married became npow becomes an adulterer also.
Most people do not even know what Adultery really is nor what Fornication (falsehood) is either. Adultery is about breaking covenants, Fornication is about a False relationship a living LIE.
Jesus said… There are eunuchs who are born eunuchs from berth, and there were eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs for the kingdom of GOD'S sake. When a man is Castrated he no longer desires sex those hormones no longer are at work in his body and as a result he no longer desires sex Period. GOD can bring this about in a person he choses to , i believe Jesus was one such person , Daniel was also one and there were probably others also. As men age their testosterone begins to diminish and so does their sex desires also. If God has not removed this in your life it is a natural function for you to desire sex and cause you to act in was to relieve these desires working in you. In time it will diminish if not completely leave you. It is not a sin unless used wrongly it is a normal function of the body. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………gene
Gene: Your post was so well written. Full of truth and life yet corrective to those who have ears to hear. I easily get frustrated and hyped up at all the laws and rules that people find or create for themselves to break and feel bad about or feel separated from Gods perfection by something they have done.There is no condemnation for those in Christ. We have no condemnation by faith that Jesus took away our sin. If we continue in sin by believing we sin by the works and deeds we do or don't do then the sacrifice of Jesus was of no effect. The perfect balance of law today is each person will reap that which he sows in his life. What you give you get!!
An unclean mind is from unclean thoughts of sin and condemnation. Not unclean thoughts about the girl next door.
Jesus taught us about our relationship with God, and how tolive our lives if pureness and sinlessness unto him. Spotless and clean without sin. Only the faith that God gave us the gift of perfection makes us perfect. Perfection was in Christ alone. Jesus gave us the truth from God that made us whole, clean, sinless, worthy etc.! BY FAITH ALONE, we are mande perfect unto God in order for God/Jesus to come and dwell within the perfect temple made without hands.
Jesus paid a huge price to remove sin from mankind. Sin is actually believing there is sin or anything that could separate us from God. The negative, destructive, worthless, sinful, degrading thoughts, which create the feelings, people carry on their shoulders, by calling most everything they do, sin!
The truth is, Jesus took away our sin(wrong thinking of separation from God) and made us one together with him and the father.
I would like to hear your opinion of my beliefs. God Bless you, sorry this is so long. All IMO, TK
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 12 2011,16:23) Quote (Wispring @ April 12 2011,16:00) Hi betweenchristendomandjws,
Your quote is about adultery and your asking about masturbation. Two different things. Jesus never addressed masturbation directly. I did find this sripture.Quote Leviticus 15:16 (King James Version) 16And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
Read all of Leviticus to get a broader overview if you like. My understanding is that masturbation makes one ceremoniously unclean. Clean yourself and anything your seed fell upon and by evening you are once again clean. It appears to be spiritual and hygiene issue simultaneously. I researched awhile on the internet about this issue. Depending on who you ask you get it is a sin all the time. It is a sin some of the time. It is never a sin. Why? Interpretations and understandings of scripture my freind. My understanding is in light of biological knowledge awareness. God want us to go forth and multiply. God created us with biological functions. We have hormones, pheremones and other biological triggers for sexual activity. My understanding is if masturbation does not become an obsessive activity that lures you away from doing God's will it is a natural activity of the flesh. This is probably popularly known as the “Relieving Stress” argument. Jesus Christ delivered us from sin. Jesus's life is depicted as a celibant male. He doesn't talk about his teenage years when hormone activity would have been at it highest level in the male and how he dealt with it. Sin means missing the mark. I go with the “some of the time” school of thought. God is merciful and forgiving if you believe you have sinned ask God for forgiveness and guidance. God in his infinite wisdom must have known folks would masturbate. God tells it like it is and tells us how to “clean up”. Like a good understanding Father.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
I did read the whole entire book of levitus but it's been months since I read that book. Your scripture is unforunately encouraging me to sin IMO. I posted the scripture because Jesus goes on to say whoever has a passion for a woman has committed adultery in his heart. That's how I felt and still feel before, during and after the act.
Greetings BC&jws….. Sin is the transgression of the law….You have touched on a topic that for the longest time I can remember has been a taboo…The term sex as I see it applies to only one application with respect to the human spici and that is the loving relationship between a man and a women…” It is appointed unto a man to leave his mother and his father and to cleave to his wife and together they become one in the flesh”….Any other fleshly undertaking would be considered a defilement of the marriage bed….leviticus is part of the Torah and the torah is the law…Having said that,leviticus also remedies the transgression with instruction to be followed for a specific period of time….IMHO this deminishes the gravity of the sin but it is still sin nonetheless….To move behond the spiritual application there are certain physical consequences to partaking of this habit in excess,one being selfishness with ones affections and laziness in the pursuit of a mate,it also invites an appetite for stimulus, in this case pornography,which in itself is addicting and demeaning to the beauty of the God ordained sex act and perfection of his creation of the male and the female body…I am open for further discussion and reasoable discourse without the paroting of chapter and verse….Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2011,16:17) This is a good passage here: 1 Cor 6:16-20
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Greetings Kathi…. This is a topic that screams for reasonable discourse with a reference to the scriptures so as to bring to light something that has touched all us and has never been clearly defined as it applied to our youth and chemistry of the human body….My catholic school education evaded the topic for discussion and reverted to condemnation for those who partake and no one knows the effect that has had…Quote (theodorej @ April 15 2011,08:44) Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2011,16:17) This is a good passage here: 1 Cor 6:16-20
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Greetings Kathi…. This is a topic that screams for reasonable discourse with a reference to the scriptures so as to bring to light something that has touched all us and has never been clearly defined as it applied to our youth and chemistry of the human body….My catholic school education evaded the topic for discussion and reverted to condemnation for those who partake and no one knows the effect that has had…
Hi Ted,
You are right in saying that there needs to be reasonable discourse. You can't just read a scripture that says that immorality is a sin. You also have to know how to solve the strong sex drive and not sin. I think these questions beg to be answered first:Is occassional masterbation by a married person considered immorality in God's eyes?
Is occassional masterbation by an unmarried person considered immorality in God's eyes?
Is compulsive masterbation by a married person considered immorality in God's eyes?
Is compulsive masterbation by an unmarried person considered immorality in God's eyes?
How do you distinquish between occasional masterbation and compulsive masterbation?
Kathi
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 15 2011,01:46) Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2011,16:17) This is a good passage here: 1 Cor 6:16-20
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Hmm I don't agree with that verse and THAT'S A GOOD THING, because it means I can't trick myself or rationalize out the verse when i'm laying in bed thinking about “bad thoughts” and at the same time this verse.
Hi,
Maybe you just need to have another topic of verses to think on at that time.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,08:00) Quote (theodorej @ April 15 2011,08:44) Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2011,16:17) This is a good passage here: 1 Cor 6:16-20
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Greetings Kathi…. This is a topic that screams for reasonable discourse with a reference to the scriptures so as to bring to light something that has touched all us and has never been clearly defined as it applied to our youth and chemistry of the human body….My catholic school education evaded the topic for discussion and reverted to condemnation for those who partake and no one knows the effect that has had…
Hi Ted,
You are right in saying that there needs to be reasonable discourse. You can't just read a scripture that says that immorality is a sin. You also have to know how to solve the strong sex drive and not sin. I think these questions beg to be answered first:Is occassional masterbation by a married person considered immorality in God's eyes?
Is occassional masterbation by an unmarried person considered immorality in God's eyes?
Is compulsive masterbation by a married person considered immorality in God's eyes?
Is compulsive masterbation by an unmarried person considered immorality in God's eyes?
How do you distinquish between occasional masterbation and compulsive masterbation?
Kathi
Kathi…. This is an issue that has been much maligned and more times than not celebrated….At a risk of being a purveyor of misinformation,I would have to come down on the side of it being sin,however,deminishing the degree is….There are multiple circumstances that could bring a person to masterbate and I would think that would be a mitigating factor in the eyes of a mercifull God….There are those who are habitual as a result of lust and perversion and then there are those who are socially inadequate with the oposite sex and then there are those who do it as a result of deprivation on the part of a partner…..please !! I do not want to seem like an authority on the subject…but it is a topic at one point in my life that needed an answer and never got the right one….and for that reason Iam in search of the truth on this issue,because so many young people need the right answer…Ted,
Have you looked at the http://www.xxxchurch.com site? They have a lot of info and God seems to be using them to help. I agree with what you said but I wouldn't say that it is always sin/immoral. What I do believe is that single guys think that the temptation goes away once they are married and that isn't true from what I have read and heard. Sometimes it gets worse. Married men take care of their needs here and then loose that natural drive to charm their wives and woo them since their needs are being taken care of by themselves. I think that is a big problem in marriage.You are right, so many young people need the right answer and too often they hear “If it feels good…do it.”
Kathi
Ted,
Scripture states that after Satan tempted Jesus in the desert he went away to wait for a more opotune time.
All those senarios are times he regards as more opotune and many of them are caused by lack of faith in God. I also noticed where one case sounds like the sin of another though it could also be caused by cirumstances. Even then faith can move mountains as all things are possible to God.
Ted! Any time you practice sex alone is called in Gods Eyes immoral. God gave us sex mainly to reproduce. The marriage bed cannot be defiled, but without a partner it's called fornication and wrong…
No but about it…..
Peace and love Irene.Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2011,15:24) Ted, Scripture states that after Satan tempted Jesus in the desert he went away to wait for a more opotune time.
All those senarios are times he regards as more opotune and many of them are caused by lack of faith in God. I also noticed where one case sounds like the sin of another though it could also be caused by cirumstances. Even then faith can move mountains as all things are possible to God.
Greetings Kerwin….Your reasoning is sound,but sometimes the scriptures fail to address an issue head on,this is one of those issues…Satans oportune moments are available to him throughout our entire existance until death.Having said that the opportunity to confuse is one of his most powerfull weapons…Job was convinced of his own rightousness yet God allowed satan to tempt and confuse him…it is the confusion over this issue that has allowed for the opportunity…Ones faith is essential,however,it still comes down to the ability to discern right from wrong,good from evil and knowing we all fall short and have sinned….Quote (Baker @ April 16 2011,16:29) Ted! Any time you practice sex alone is called in Gods Eyes immoral. God gave us sex mainly to reproduce. The marriage bed cannot be defiled, but without a partner it's called fornication and wrong…
No but about it…..
Peace and love Irene.
Greetings Irene….. And God saw that the man was not happy and alone and from him he created the women…This was the very foundation of marriage and manogomy….Procreation is essential but God created the man and women as a family and the relationship was to be pleasurefull as well…Sex is between a man and a women as so created by the eternal…You cannot have sex by yourself…You can embrace lust by yourself,one must not confuse that with sex. The confusion over defining sex has allowed us to associate a miriad of lustfull actions as sex…The marriage bed can be defiled when a husband and a wife partake of each other and one of them is unclean,be it adultery or any extramarital activity…Ted,
It is true that all human beings, except Jesus, have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God but we must be careful not to misuse that fact to justify our sins instead of repenting of them.
Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2011,15:07) Ted, It is true that all human beings, except Jesus, have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God but we must be careful not to misuse that fact to justify our sins instead of repenting of them.
4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ(Jude 4)I personally need to make sure that doesn't apply to my umm masturbation.
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 17 2011,15:14) Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2011,15:07) Ted, It is true that all human beings, except Jesus, have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God but we must be careful not to misuse that fact to justify our sins instead of repenting of them.
4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ(Jude 4)I personally need to make sure that doesn't apply to my umm masturbation.
Greeting BCJW…..The only thing you need to apply is restraint,because you are mindfull and guilty or maybe even ashamed….This is a good thing,and speaks to the sinfull aspect of this practice even though the scriptures do not address it verbatim…Iam not judging for we all at some time in our lives have engaged in this behavior..and Iam sure I will be told to speak for myself by someone…Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2011,15:07) Ted, It is true that all human beings, except Jesus, have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God but we must be careful not to misuse that fact to justify our sins instead of repenting of them.
Greetings kerwin….. your point is well taken and having said that,there is no justification for sin,however,our carnality supplies the reason for sin and Jesus' sacrafice gives us the opportunity to seek repentence which is a gift from God…
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