- This topic is empty.
- Posts
The HS doesnt fail anyone. But man has a will and when it overrides the gentle nudging of the spirit, we have problems.
Since the men you are speaking of here is the pope and his cronies, I will be blunt. Their fruit doesnt look good to me, so I will not trust them.
CA, I fear that you do not understand what it means to have God in you. It is a relationship. You learn about God as he reveals himself to you. It is much like dating and eventually you will be married. He reveals the Truth as you draw near. God is not a mental mountain to ascend. No man can GIVE you the law. Circumcision is of the heart. Man and his God can come to know truth together on an island alone. They dont need the blessing of the pope.
If you mentally ascend god, you will just end up a pharisee. I USED to be a catholic. The spirit showed me that the fruits were rotten in general. But there is rotten fruit everywhere when legalism quenches the spirit. The bible says PLAINLY that the spirit will lead me into all truth. What part of that do you not agree with?
Rules and doctrines will never save. A relationship with your god will. We can argue semantics until christs return, but only faith, hope, and love abide and since the other 2 are nothing without love, nor is anything else, we would be better to get love deep in us and not legalism. Against love there is no law, only life.
Oh praise god for the freedom we have in christ. Obedience is not burdomsome but the natural result of a life filled with gods love and the spirit!
God Bless
JeffHi Jeff,
Catholicism is a comforting regime of formulas and rituals that give religion a sense of Godly order.
Feast days and holy days and Lent, Easter and Christmas add to the tidy picture.
Forgiveness in confession and salvation through the mass.
All very neat and tidy but all so inconsequential.
Their religion does not need God at all.Quote (wisslewj @ Sep. 08 2009,17:48) The HS doesnt fail anyone. But man has a will and when it overrides the gentle nudging of the spirit, we have problems. Since the men you are speaking of here is the pope and his cronies, I will be blunt. Their fruit doesnt look good to me, so I will not trust them.
CA, I fear that you do not understand what it means to have God in you. It is a relationship. You learn about God as he reveals himself to you. It is much like dating and eventually you will be married. He reveals the Truth as you draw near. God is not a mental mountain to ascend. No man can GIVE you the law. Circumcision is of the heart. Man and his God can come to know truth together on an island alone. They dont need the blessing of the pope.
If you mentally ascend god, you will just end up a pharisee. I USED to be a catholic. The spirit showed me that the fruits were rotten in general. But there is rotten fruit everywhere when legalism quenches the spirit. The bible says PLAINLY that the spirit will lead me into all truth. What part of that do you not agree with?
Rules and doctrines will never save. A relationship with your god will. We can argue semantics until christs return, but only faith, hope, and love abide and since the other 2 are nothing without love, nor is anything else, we would be better to get love deep in us and not legalism. Against love there is no law, only life.
Oh praise god for the freedom we have in christ. Obedience is not burdomsome but the natural result of a life filled with gods love and the spirit!
God Bless
Jeff
You may be surprised to hear that I agree with much of the spirit of what you have written. Especially in the East (but also in the West) we view Canon law in the light that Jesus commanded: Love is the rule. We look at the spirit of the law, rather than the letter.As for your argument about the pope. I am a bit weary of this kind of reasoning. I give a sound and irrefutable argument showing the weakness of Protestant thought and theology. And instead of saying, “you know, you're right”, the answer is “well if this means I have to follow the pope and worship Mary then you'd better think again, buddy.” You can't agree that what I said specifically makes sense. You see where you think it is leading and reject what I am saying.
Well, I've got to tell you. I don't believe you really know where it is leading. I don't really think you understand what the Church IS or what it REALLY TEACHES and BELIEVES.
As to it's fruit, I only expect to see what Jesus told me to expect: Wheat and Tares; Sheep and Goats. And I expect to see this until He returns to sort them out.
I do feel bad that you are looking at the guy who is partying all night friday, calling himself catholic, going to Mass on Sunday once in a while and drinking judgment to himself. I used to think this is what all Catholics were…including the priests.
Now I know this is patently false. The most godly people on planet earth are Catholic. There are a multitude of God's people who have not bent their knee to Baal and the present onslaught of worldliness.
I can introduce you to priest after priest after priest who have a vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ and take their vocation seriously in Godly fear. I'll leave you with this quote by the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen:
“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is of course, quite a different thing.”
hi CA,
Are these the priests and brothers who are involved in gross misbehaviours against children?
Rotten fruit of a plant not planted by the Father.Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 08 2009,06:21) Its always a good idea to be cautious with the masoretic text since it was compiled between the 7th and 10th centuries AD by Jews who rejected Christ.
How do you know this is true?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,17:57) Hi Jeff,
Catholicism is a comforting regime of formulas and rituals that give religion a sense of Godly order.
Feast days and holy days and Lent, Easter and Christmas add to the tidy picture.
Forgiveness in confession and salvation through the mass.
All very neat and tidy but all so inconsequential.
Their religion does not need God at all.
I've been thinking about the very feelings you've expressed here, Nick.I've been wondering – what is the difference between CA and his rituals that make him happy – and your denial of those rituals which make you feel as cozy? What really is the difference between the way you both express your love and desire for God? Can you tell me?
Thanks,
MandyHi Not3,
What is the relevance of rituals?God is not of empty rituals
Faith is the issue.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.
Can you not put aside the dross that comes from man's folly?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 10 2009,08:48) Hi Not3,
What is the relevance of rituals?God is not of empty rituals
Faith is the issue.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.
Can you not put aside the dross that comes from man's folly?
Baptism is a “ritual” which you believe saves a man. You are more Catholic than you are willing to admit.thinker
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 10 2009,08:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,17:57) Hi Jeff,
Catholicism is a comforting regime of formulas and rituals that give religion a sense of Godly order.
Feast days and holy days and Lent, Easter and Christmas add to the tidy picture.
Forgiveness in confession and salvation through the mass.
All very neat and tidy but all so inconsequential.
Their religion does not need God at all.
I've been thinking about the very feelings you've expressed here, Nick.I've been wondering – what is the difference between CA and his rituals that make him happy – and your denial of those rituals which make you feel as cozy? What really is the difference between the way you both express your love and desire for God? Can you tell me?
Thanks,
Mandy
I'll have a go. The difference is SOURCE and AUTHORITY.It is impossible for us to judge “happiness”. So I'll refrain from that issue.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 10 2009,09:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 10 2009,08:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,17:57) Hi Jeff,
Catholicism is a comforting regime of formulas and rituals that give religion a sense of Godly order.
Feast days and holy days and Lent, Easter and Christmas add to the tidy picture.
Forgiveness in confession and salvation through the mass.
All very neat and tidy but all so inconsequential.
Their religion does not need God at all.
I've been thinking about the very feelings you've expressed here, Nick.I've been wondering – what is the difference between CA and his rituals that make him happy – and your denial of those rituals which make you feel as cozy? What really is the difference between the way you both express your love and desire for God? Can you tell me?
Thanks,
Mandy
I'll have a go. The difference is SOURCE and AUTHORITY.It is impossible for us to judge “happiness”. So I'll refrain from that issue.
In fact, what you stand on as AUTHORITY and SOURCE are merely good ol' fashioned faith and reason. Is this fair to say considering our previous posts?Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 10 2009,14:16) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 10 2009,09:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 10 2009,08:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,17:57) Hi Jeff,
Catholicism is a comforting regime of formulas and rituals that give religion a sense of Godly order.
Feast days and holy days and Lent, Easter and Christmas add to the tidy picture.
Forgiveness in confession and salvation through the mass.
All very neat and tidy but all so inconsequential.
Their religion does not need God at all.
I've been thinking about the very feelings you've expressed here, Nick.I've been wondering – what is the difference between CA and his rituals that make him happy – and your denial of those rituals which make you feel as cozy? What really is the difference between the way you both express your love and desire for God? Can you tell me?
Thanks,
Mandy
I'll have a go. The difference is SOURCE and AUTHORITY.It is impossible for us to judge “happiness”. So I'll refrain from that issue.
In fact, what you stand on as AUTHORITY and SOURCE are merely good ol' fashioned faith and reason. Is this fair to say considering our previous posts?Love,
Mandy
Well specifically:Source: The source of his claims do not have their origination in the apostles. Mine do.
Authority: His authority for what he believes is his own fallible self. Mine is greater than myself. It is the universal church in every age since Christ.
Quote Source: The source of his claims do not have their origination in the apostles. Mine do.
In other words, you have faith that all that you believe came from the apostles. Because remember that we do not know for sure if everything was handed down correctly? We have to have faith that it was.Quote Authority: His authority for what he believes is his own fallible self. Mine is greater than myself. It is the universal church in every age since Christ.
You reason that the church knows it's stuff; you've checked it all out to the best of your ability (but still, there cannot be 100% assurance). You are still using your reason to determine that this is the right path for you.Like I said, faith and reason.
But perhaps we just see this differently.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 10 2009,17:33) Quote Source: The source of his claims do not have their origination in the apostles. Mine do.
In other words, you have faith that all that you believe came from the apostles. Because remember that we do not know for sure if everything was handed down correctly? We have to have faith that it was.Quote Authority: His authority for what he believes is his own fallible self. Mine is greater than myself. It is the universal church in every age since Christ.
You reason that the church knows it's stuff; you've checked it all out to the best of your ability (but still, there cannot be 100% assurance). You are still using your reason to determine that this is the right path for you.Like I said, faith and reason.
But perhaps we just see this differently.
No I don't think we do see it differently. Thanks for letting me clarify. Just wanted to make sure we were saying the same thing.But as I recently posted elsewhere, reason is merely saying that the MOUNTAIN of evidence for the Catholic position is REASONABLE.
(Sorry about the all caps…it's must annoying to use the bold feature as I type)
Hi CA,
There is a lot of reasonable evidence that the catholic religion is a sham that bewitches men into a false sense of security, robs them of their personal responsiblity, steals their precious message from God and puts their children at great risk.All religion is a sham!! The Truth of God was sent in a supernatural man, Jesus the Christ. If we really want to know the Truth of God we will read, listen to, follow and believe what Jesus said. Religion is mans ideas about God. Some right, some worthless rituals and meaningless penance. God is revealed through Jesus. If your doctrines are not in the first fout books of the New Testament through them away. Follow Christ Jesus for life! Bless you all, TK
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
