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Do not patronise me, I am not confused, More to the point is, that You are confused.
You say that the two could be Jesus, and the holy spirit. Then you claim that they could be elijah. Cmon which one?? You are in a world of confusion in this point.
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There is no longer a city called Sodom and there never was one called Egypt so this is symbolic.It tells you plainly in revelation. The place is FIGURATIVLY Sodom and egjpyt, not the actual places.
Which illistrates again, your missunderstanding of these key points. You are confused. Please pray to god and ask him to take away your own reality and replace it with his.
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Jesus did not die on Earth-He died in the air nailed to the cross-perhaps above the Earth is the street?And as it says, The serpent will be hung on a tree, and you must go to it for your healing. This was a prophecy about Jesus. So you are wrong my friend.
So, your wearing shoes are you?? Or you die in bed?? Does that mean your not on the earth?? Do not be a fool.
See what I mean about confusion? I have never suggested that on of the Witnesses was Elijah-please reread my posts.
Quote (ringo111 @ July 25 2004,04:37) So, your wearing shoes are you?? Or you die in bed?? Does that mean your not on the earth?? Do not be a fool. Ringo,
Settle down mate. Before you start denigrating people all over the show again why don't you take the time to read Matt 7:1-5 and Matt 5:22. Pull your head in.Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.Matthew 23:17
You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?Luke 24:25
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!Matthew 25:2
Five of them were foolish and five were wise.Luke 12:20
“But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?'Galatians 3:1
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.James 2:20
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[ 2:20 Some early manuscripts dead] ?Obviously , That scripture is way out of context. The translators did not understand. For Jesus called many fools, and GoD calls people fools.
Also the disciples called men FooLS!!!Get a grip.
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Yes Elijah closed the skies to rain for 3 1/2 years and in Rev 11 it happens again.This implies that you are calling the two elijah, For elijah came before jesus.
The why say it at all??? If that is not what you ment??
Hi Is,
Psalm 110 uses Lord for bothe the Father and the Son and this is repeated in the new Testament.” The Lord [Father] says to my Lord[Son]. 'Sit at my right hand and I will make your enemies your footstool'.The scepter of your power the Lord [Father]will stretch forth from Zion.
The footnote says' literally “the oracle of the Lord[Yahweh] for my lord “My Lord” :a hebrew phrase of polite address ,equivalent to “you” and used when a subject addresses his superior,cf 1Sam 25.25ff.2Sam 1.10.
hope this helps
Dear Ringo,
It is hard to explain the Body of Christ to someone who can't accept the NT as it was only revealed there as far as I know. It is a symbol the True church and is shown in Rom Ch7,12. 1Cor Ch6,10,12. Eph Ch 4,5. Col Ch 1 and 3.and other places.I encourage you to retry to study the NT. The good news is that if you have the Holy Spirit then you will know as you read it that it is of God and you will be reassured by the beautiful harmony between the Nt and OT
You use scripture to call me a fool. Perhaps I am. God knows. no matter. God bless you.
Dear Is,
Phil 2.6 shows the place of my Lord and my God Jesus prior to his life on Earth. Lordship is a position of authority and He is certainly our Lord. He is one with the Father but less than the Father, as he stated, and the Father is His Lord and His God.The same verse explains that the Son never had or sought equality with the Father.
Trinity doctrine says there is equality so it always stumbles over this verse.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2004,16:46) The same verse explains that the Son never had or sought equality with the Father. No it doesnt, the correct rendering of the Greek suggests he didn't regard equality with God a thing to be 'exploited'. You have to have something before you can exploit it. Do you regard Jesus as being less than God?
Yes he is God but He is not the Father and to quote him “the Father is greater than me”. There is no greater authority under the Father than my Lord and my god ,Jesus Christ.
Are you a Greek scholar or who is your source as you have an unusual translation of that verse? Do you have parallel verses too?
This is what the highly-respected Biblegateway.com scholars have to say about this passage:
In displaying the mind of Christ, Paul begins with one of those sublime sentences whose essential intent and meaning seem clear as can be yet whose parts are full of mystery and wonder. The reason for this is simple enough; on the basis of what was known and came to be believed about Jesus' earthly life, Paul is trying to say something about what could not be observed yet came to be believed about Christ's prior existence as God. What is essential is this: In his prior existence as God, Christ demonstrated what equality with God meant, not by taking advantage of it for himself but by emptying himself, by taking the role of a slave/servant in becoming one of us. All of this, in the present context, is to portray the ultimate expression of “do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit.” What that “mind” entails is spelled out in the narrative that follows.
The details that need special attention are four: (1) Why does Paul say “in the form” of God (NIV margin) rather than simply say “as God”? (2) What does the word harpagmos mean (NIV something to be grasped; put above as “taking advantage of”)? (3) What did it mean for Christ to “empty himself” (NIV made himself nothing)? (4) Why in human likeness rather than “in his humanity” or something similar? Other details of significance will be noted in the process of looking at each of these matters in turn.First, the opening phrase, “who, being in the form [morphe] of God,” expresses as presupposition what the rest of the sentence assumes: that it was the preexistent Christ who “emptied himself” at one point in our human history. Why then did Paul use morphe, which primarily refers to the “form” or “shape” something takes? The answer lies in what Paul is about in this sentence. His urgency is to say something about Christ's “mindset” in both expressions of his being, first as God and second in his humanity. But in the transition from Christ's “being God” to his “becoming human,” Paul expresses by way of metaphor the essential “shape” of that humanity: Christ “took on the `form' of a slave.” Since morphe can denote “form” or “shape” in terms of both the external features by which something is recognized and the characteristics and qualities that are essential to it, it was precisely the right word to characterize both the reality (his being God) and the metaphor (his taking on the role of a slave). On the basis of Christ's resurrection and ascension, his earliest followers had come to believe that the One whom they had known as truly human had himself known prior existence in the “form” of God–not meaning that he was “like God but really not” but that he was characterized by what was essential to being God. This understanding (correctly) lies behind the NIV's in very nature God.
Second, in order to highlight the astonishing nature of the incarnation, Paul resorts to a typical “not/but” contrast. Reading such a sentence straight through without the “but” clause always helps to get at what is essential; in this case, “who, being in the form of God, . . . made himself nothing by taking the form of a servant/slave.” That is glory indeed; but to heighten the glory Paul emphasizes two realities: first, that “being in the form of God” means being equal with God; second, that in Christ's “being in the form of God/being equal with God” he displayed a mindset precisely the opposite of “selfish ambition” and empty glory (v. 3). To accent this second point he uses an extremely rare (negative) word, harpagmos, which depicts the opposite of “in humility consider others better than yourselves” (v. 3).
Harpagmos is a noun formed from a verb that means to “to seize, steal [hence the KJV's `robbery'], snatch, take away.” Although its meaning has been much debated, there is a growing consensus that its probable sense leans toward something like either “a matter of grasping or seizing” or “something grasped for one's own personal advantage.” In the first option the emphasis lies on the verbal side of the noun, on the idea of “seizing” as such. Thus Christ did not consider “equality with God” to consist of being “grasping” or “selfish”; rather he rejected this popular view of kingly power by pouring himself out for the sake of others. The alternative, which is probably preferable, is to see the word as a synonym of its cognate harpagma (“booty” or “prey”), which in idioms similar to Paul's denotes something like “a matter to be seized upon” in the sense of “taking advantage of” it (“he did not think he needed to take advantage of this equality with God,” Bockmuehl 1997:114).
In either case, the clause comes out very much at the same point. Equality with God is something that was inherent to Christ in his preexistence; but he did not consider Godlikeness to consist in “grasping” or “seizing” or as “grasping it to his own advantage,” which would be the normal expectation of lordly power–and the nadir of selfishness.
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Dear Ringo,
It is hard to explain the Body of Christ to someone who can't accept the NT as it was only revealed there as far as I know. It is a symbol the True church and is shown in Rom Ch7,12. 1Cor Ch6,10,12. Eph Ch 4,5. Col Ch 1 and 3.and other places.As for your belief that The church acually is Jesus Body and not a metaphore.
Then do you also believe that the church is physically the bride of christ aswell??
If so, which one is the church
Is the church the bride?
Or is the church Jesus???
What would be the point of marriing yourself??
But no, The church is physically none of these, They are all just metephores.
For.
Luke 20
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.Rev 21
9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.*You see the bride IS a metephore, For Jesus does not marry a building. Nor does he marry the people. For they enter the “Bride” the New Jeruselem Along with GoD and Jesus.
REV 21
2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.REV 21
22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.*As you see, the New Jesuselem”bride” Is refered to as an it, and a city”bride”, It was just a metephore, or a translation error, For all the people enter into the city. Jesus enters the city, PLus, the New Jeruselem”bride” was GoD's dwelling place, and it makes a definate point of saying. Now GoD's dwelling place”bride” is now with men, Meaning, It had not been before in such a way as it is at that time in revelation.
*AS can be plainly seen, We are not the bride, Nor are we jesus. They are Just metephores for ways we should live, and treat eachother with respect.
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I encourage you to retry to study the NT. The good news is that if you have the Holy Spirit then you will know as you read it that it is of God and you will be reassured by the beautiful harmony between the Nt and OTI suggest that you re-read my posts, There are many things in the New Testiment that are fake, But for the most part of it, It is correct and a reliable teaching source.
You have not read my posts correctly, But you are reflecting the views of ignorant people. Of coarse you will try and overturn me, by saying that that is more to date, Like people who rewrite scripture do. They say, The bible is old, and is not relevent, they destroy themselves by changing the meaning.
All things are to be tested. Nowhere Have I said that The most of the New Testiment is not to be believed. So please wake up from this notion that you believe that I think that it is faulse as a whole. All things are to be wieghed, A spiritual man Discerns all things.
The very writings that tell you to not look at the new testiment as the reliable source, are in fact in the new testiment. For they knew that men would change it, So they put warnings in it. That is why they refered to the Old testiment, and backed up most events and beliefs by the Old Testiment. If you do not use this process, Then you are not following the tradion, and way of thinking of the disciples, and Jesus himself Left, as a way of discernment.
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Also in that same book(the New Testiment), Jesus talks about Men who put theyre faith in Books for life.
John 5
39You diligently study[3] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.Jesus and the disciples used the scripture also, Does this make Jesus a hypocrite??? It seems to be that you think jesus was wrong to quote the old testiment to validate what he was doing.
And what about the disciples, who weighed theyre own actions in thesame way?? Do you think they were foolish holding onto old customs???I put to you that, The disciples were following the new way Given them, which had allot of the old way included. For Jesus used that of which his killers also used.
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You use scripture to call me a fool. Perhaps I am. God knows. no matter. God bless you.Well, we are to discern all things, Jesus asks the people why dont you judge for yourselves what is right?
I ask you the same question.
Your beliefs are mixed with dogmattic nonsense, Im sure they were taught to you by some “great” teacher, Or a system.
Just as I have illustrated above.
And have you seriously prayed that prayer??? I hope so, For your sake, and definatly the sake of those who hear you. For you are very unfair in your style of argument. You twist words and meanings, Are you by any chance a bible student of a trinity reiseme??
God loves metaphors and parables. He uses them all the time because He can show deeper meanings and visual imagery.
He uses different metaphors for the same thing -such as the Body of christ and the Bride of Christ.
The image of the Body is to show how we in the true church all are one but have separate functions. None of us is greater than The Head, Jesus. We don't all do the same things but we all need each other.
The Bride emphasises the joy of Unity together, and with the Son of God, whom none of us has seen in the climax of human life. The joy of Oneness with him and the Father and the wedding feast celebrates that time.
God uses the same metaphor also to mean different things. The Grapevine in the OT symbolised Israel but in the NT it is the church.
If parts of the NT are ok which parts or is that your secret?
He uses the same
Dear Ringo,
Yes Jesus quoted the Old Testament often as he knew it was Truth. And his life constantly fulfilled the prophesies about Him to be found in there. Of course He did not quote from the NT as it was yet to be put on paper yet is written by the same Author, through men, and is just as reliable.It is amazing to me that such detail could be remembered by the writers of the gospel and without a single flaw. We have to accept all these writings and the letters as truth also. For if we can say that this bit or that bit is wrong we have to say all of it is unreliable. Anyone who thinks he is more reliable than Peter or Paul or James etc is judging them and judging the Holy Spirit who inspired them. That is not wise.Quote
Dear Ringo,
Yes Jesus quoted the Old Testament often as he knew it was Truth. And his life constantly fulfilled the prophesies about Him to be found in there. Of course He did not quote from the NT as it was yet to be put on paper yet is written by the same Author, through men, and is just as reliable.It is amazing to me that such detail could be remembered by the writers of the gospel and without a single flaw. We have to accept all these writings and the letters as truth also. For if we can say that this bit or that bit is wrong we have to say all of it is unreliable. Anyone who thinks he is more reliable than Peter or Paul or James etc is judging them and judging the Holy Spirit who inspired them. That is not wise.The bible scholars themselves egknowledge that bibles have been tampered with. Or is a matter of interpretation.
You are speaking insanity.
You maintain, that all the writings of the bible are correct.
While another compleatly opposing you believes the same.
How nieve and blind to think that these writings have not been changed.
As for one part being wrong, while other is correct. Jesus lays that principle.
Matthew 23
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2″The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.*****************************
Is James here to give witness???
Or peter?
How do we know of what they did???
It is through those who have interpreted.
And of those interpretations, we have the interpretors views.
Here is the delema. Men who were not GoDly, Forced to translate by other ungodly men. Men who had satan at theyre ears. Even one of the translators of the NIV was a homosexual.
Please tell me, which one of all the translations is Peters words.
Please tell me which bible is the right one. And how on earth can you come to that conclusion. For the writers cannot give testimony about what they wrote.
So which one?? maybe your JW bible?? OR NIV , or NRSV or RSV??? or NASV??? how about KJV or LVL27,.. how about the Aquarius bible
how about a gay Bible?? is that GODs word too?? and many more. what about those then GoD (he/she) bibles. Or the trinity bibles, GoD the father said to GOD the son. Think about it.Betraial of The holy spirit, is an obsered accusation. Think about it plz.
It is by the old testiment that you can weigh such things, But also By asking GoD to send his holy spirit to lead you into all trueth. But he will not the spirit like he did too the desciples unless you obey his commands.
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He uses different metaphors for the same thing -such as the Body of christ and the Bride of Christ.Exactly-
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If parts of the NT are ok which parts or is that your secret?He uses the same
Anything that is not in direct contradiction to the laws GoD has placed, is not fake. He gave us physical bodies and nature to observe the heavenly secrets.
Jesus says, Learn the lesson from the fig tree.
That is why paul said there is no excuse for men not to do what is pleasing to GoD.
You see, Look at what is said, and then look at what is done, by the people.
Jesus said, bless and do not curse. Yet he cursed the fig tree, But did not curse at a human. Therefore He ment it in dealing with people.
Now, you compare everything you find, and If there is direct contradiction, look and see if it is a contradiction, or if both(or more) ideas work together.
At this point is where most people fail, and image many things, I would say as a main part because of theyre partiality to evil acts that hand them over to satan.
A mojor one would be, the lack of sharing of possessions, lack of compassion to the less fortunate. horders.
Also faulse things are introduced slowly because satan does not die, and uses people to continue the work of past generations. As we speak many satanists are part of churches, gaining positions. Spreading the lies.
Ive allready explained how i do this elsewhere.
the Forum
http://heaven.net.nz/cgi-bin….29;st=0
Now please answer, according to you…
Who is the church??
Is the church Jesus?? Or is the church marride to Jesus??
Now i Explained, before you decided to say the same thing as me, That, GoD uses metephores, figuratives.
I explained that The church is neither of those things. But misconseptions formed in the minds of unstable men.
Ringo,
Why are you so frightened of being deceived ? Is that not also a deception?You have to trust that God looks after His Word or psalm 19 has no meaning. You have to trust there is a true church and true teachers as the alternative is only to trust yourself. It is to become walled in by fear and paranoia. It is to be isolated and alone .
We all need discernment to use [and that is a gift of the Spirit that can be sought by those baptised into the kingdom]to sort stuff out but not to reject all of the NT.
You constantly quote the NT but have yet to answer how you can if parts of it cannot be trusted or have been misinterpreted.
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Ringo,
Why are you so frightened of being deceived ? Is that not also a deception?You have to trust that God looks after His Word or psalm 19 has no meaning. You have to trust there is a true church and true teachers as the alternative is only to trust yourself. It is to become walled in by fear and paranoia. It is to be isolated and alone .
We all need discernment to use [and that is a gift of the Spirit that can be sought by those baptised into the kingdom]to sort stuff out but not to reject all of the NT.
You constantly quote the NT but have yet to answer how you can if parts of it cannot be trusted or have been misinterpreted.
Would you kiindly answer my questions. And not dodge the issue. Continually dodging and not answering is only going to fool yourself into thinking youve got it all right.
But to also answer your current question.
Acts 20:30-31
30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.2 Peter 3
16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.2 Timothy 4
2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.1 Corinthians 2:15
The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:Ephesians 5:6
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.*-************************************
*As you will see, there were many groups triing to change the way of Jesus, and distort it from the beggining of the preaching. Even while Paul was giving sighns wonders and miricles, People would rather turn to the other places that tell them what they want to hear. And teachers, teach faulsely.
2 Corinthians 12:11-13
11I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing. 12The things that mark an apostle–signs, wonders and miracles–were done among you with great perseverance. 13How were you inferior to the other churches, except that I was never a burden to you?3 John 1:10
So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.Titus 1
10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach–and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith
16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.Quote
We all need discernment to use [and that is a gift of the Spirit that can be sought by those baptised into the kingdom]to sort stuff out but not to reject all of the NT.You constantly quote the NT but have yet to answer how you can if parts of it cannot be trusted or have been misinterpreted.
Philippians 1
9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,*you must be compassionate to recieve that insight.
I have explained in other forums, about how I test the writings. Please read them.
I will give other scriptures to support that you must do what is pleasing to GoD before you can understand the greater things.
But laterz. Busy atm
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