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Kathy! Georg said that Angels and Jesus were created they are called Angela, wile God was not…And that is why He is not an Angel…Irene
There seems to be a prolonged debate concerning 'What' Jesus is.
It has been established that he is not Angel.
It has been established that he is not God.
It is said that he I'd not Spirit.
It has been said hr is not Man.So what I'd he?
Jesus is MAN IN SPIRIT FORM.
This is born out by references to his SPIRITUAL BODY which he will receive and put off as he descends or ascends into heaven.
Scriptures says that we will see him come in like manner to that which he left – when he left he was Man.
Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in Paradise – Paradise is Earth based – the abode of Flesh.
Scriptures asks: 'To which of the Angels did God ever say…?'
Scriptures says that there is only one potentate between God and Man – the man Jesus Christ.
Scriptures says that no one has ascended to heaven except he that first descended from heaven, that is, the Son of Man (Jesus)
Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of the Living God, the begotten God…not created, nor made but begotten before the ages. He became flesh, walked in complete obedience to His Father, was crucified, died and was buried. After three days, He rose again and will one day come back and judge all men. Those who believe in Him will be saved and enjoy fellowship with Him forever.
Quote (Baker @ April 18 2011,02:13) Kathy! Georg said that Angels and Jesus were created they are called Angela, wile God was not…And that is why He is not an Angel…Irene
Thanks Irene,Another question for Georg…
What is the difference between being the first born and being the first created?
Kathi
God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth. Jesus Christ his Son, our Lord. Conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered, was crucified, died, and was buried .He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended to heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
“Ye are My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that ye know and give credence to Me, And understand that I am He, Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none.”
Isaiah 43:10
Hebrew Transliteration Strong's English
אַתֶּ֤ם at·tem 859 You
עֵדַי֙ e·dai 5707 are my witnesses
נְאֻם־ ne·'um- 5002 declares
יְהוָ֔ה Yah·weh 3068 the LORD
וְעַבְדִּ֖י ve·'av·di 5650 and my servant
אֲשֶׁ֣ר a·sher 834 whom
בָּחָ֑רְתִּי ba·cha·re·ti; 977 have chosen
לְמַ֣עַן le·ma·'an 4616 that
תֵּ֠דְעוּ te·de·'u 3045 you may know
וְתַאֲמִ֨ינוּ ve·ta·'a·mi·nu 539 and believe
לִ֤י li
וְתָבִ֙ינוּ֙ ve·ta·vi·nu 995 and understand
כִּֽי־ ki- 3588 for
אֲנִ֣י a·ni 589 I
ה֔וּא hu, 1931 I am He
לְפָנַי֙ le·fa·nai 6440 Before
לֹא־ lo- 3808 no
נֹ֣וצַר no·v·tzar 3335 formed
אֵ֔ל el, 410 God
וְאַחֲרַ֖י ve·'a·cha·rai 310 after
לֹ֥א lo 3808 will be none
יִהְיֶֽה׃ yih·yeh. 1961 become
ס sHi Kathi,
Phil 3:3, whichever way it is read, states that we Honor the Son (Even as we Honor the Father).
Honouring is not Worshipping – honouring means giving credit.We do indeed give Credit to both Father And Son.
That part is clear and is echoed elsewhere several times in Scriptures.
We AGREE on that.
However, you cannot extrapolate 'Honor' to 'Worship' else you created a dangerous precedence.Worship is, amongst others things, to Serve with complete reverence.
No where in Scriptures are any of creation other than the Angels told to serve Jesus/The Son with reverence.Sorry, you quote several times isn't the word 'Honor' as if 'Honor' and 'Worship' are interchangeable. This is wrong and can only be drawn from a need to do so.
Even that 'Every knee shall bow' does not mean 'Worship'. Every knee shall bow in Honor of who Christ is, as King, as Judge over Mankind and the Angels.
Even in Revelation, the direction is to 'Honor, Praise and Glorify'… These are, indeed, ensconced in Worship, but are not themselves, 'Worship'.
Do we not (Has all this not been gone over before) 'Honor, Praise and Glorify' a Champion, the Race winner, the Best Student, a Mighty Hero (a god)…the King.
Honor the Son; Worship the God.
Ok, Kathi, in Scriptures, does it not say in several places: 'Worship God' and 'Worship God, and Gid alone'?
Is there a Scripture, even one, other than for the Angels, that says or (properly) implies 'Worship the Son/Chrsit'?
'The Son honors the Father just as the Father Honors the Son' …God worships his Son?
Kathi, what does the word 'Honor' mean to you? Please!
Kathi,
There is Firstborn and there is First-born (Or First Born).
The first is that ONE that is held most closely to the Father irrespective of birth order.
Even an adopted ONE can become the Firstborn.The second, 'First born', is simply that: THE ONE that was born first to the father.
Jacob was Isaac's FIRSTBORN … but yet it was Esau was that was Isaac's First born!
Jacob was BEGOTTEN as Firstborn, raised up in Rank order, Adopted, … As Firstborn over his first born brother!Quote (Lightenup @ April 19 2011,01:54) Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of the Living God, the begotten God…not created, nor made but begotten before the ages. He became flesh, walked in complete obedience to His Father, was crucified, died and was buried. After three days, He rose again and will one day come back and judge all men. Those who believe in Him will be saved and enjoy fellowship with Him forever.
Kathy! You say Jesus was not created, then why does Scripture say so…Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
He is the beginning of God.s creation. Why do you believe otherwise?
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Lightenup @ April 19 2011,01:57) Quote (Baker @ April 18 2011,02:13) Kathy! Georg said that Angels and Jesus were created they are called Angela, wile God was not…And that is why He is not an Angel…Irene
Thanks Irene,Another question for Georg…
What is the difference between being the first born and being the first created?
Kathi
Kathi! Firstborn of all creation. God is a creator….God creates.
Jesus was created by God, and became the firstborn of all creation.
Born simply means brought into existence.
God created from nothing, Humans procreates from things God has created…
The reason Jesus is called only begotten Son of God is, because everything else God created through Jesus. Including the Angels.Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This is what Georg said…..And it does make sense.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Istari @ April 19 2011,03:13) There seems to be a prolonged debate concerning 'What' Jesus is. It has been established that he is not Angel.
It has been established that he is not God.
It is said that he is not Spirit.
It has been said he is not Man.So what Is he?
Jesus is MAN IN SPIRIT FORM.
This is born out by references to his SPIRITUAL BODY which he will receive and put off as he descends or ascends into heaven.
Good post J.I had to correct your spelling though!
Quote (Istari @ April 19 2011,00:13) There seems to be a prolonged debate concerning 'What' Jesus is. It has been established that he is not Angel.
It has been established that he is not God.
It is said that he I'd not Spirit.
It has been said hr is not Man.So what I'd he?
Jesus is MAN IN SPIRIT FORM.
This is born out by references to his SPIRITUAL BODY which he will receive and put off as he descends or ascends into heaven.
Istari! You say that it has been establlished that Jesus is not an Angel! That is false
That He is not God, not Almighty God but called God by Almighty God in
Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstb egotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
In John1:1 He is called The Word of God, and God. Not Almighty God. God and The Word of God are titles. In Ancient times may were called God. Satan to is called God of this world.
Jesus was Spirit and is Sprit again, seated at the right hand of Almighty God.
And in John 1:14 He became flesh…..
Jesus is the Son of God, and Son of man. Our Savior and King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He will come agai to smite the nations
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene, Istari is saying Jesus was an Angel before coming to earth. He was then born as the Man Christ Jesus. He was risen, after death, into a Glorified Body…the first born from the dead, the firstborn over all of creation. Thats what he was saying.
Quote (Istari @ April 19 2011,00:13) There seems to be a prolonged debate concerning 'What' Jesus is. It has been established that he is not Angel.
It has been established that he is not God.
It is said that he I'd not Spirit.
It has been said hr is not Man.So what I'd he?
Jesus is MAN IN SPIRIT FORM.
This is born out by references to his SPIRITUAL BODY which he will receive and put off as he descends or ascends into heaven.
Karmria Did He not say this? That is what I responded to…IreneQuote (karmarie @ April 19 2011,09:37) So, Kathi and Mike, if I get this right…you both believe there are TWO EQUAL Gods?
No at least Mike does not believe they are equal.and I don't think Kathy does not either……IreneHi Irene, how are you?
This is what Istari said, and what I understand he meant.
Quote It has been established that he is not Angel.
Any More. He is now higher than that.Quote It has been established that he is not God.
Scripture says there is only ONE God and there will never be another God. So Jesus isnt God Almighty.Quote It is said that he Is not Spirit.
Jesus said to the Disciples he is not a spirit as spirits dont have flesh and bone as he had.Quote It has been said he is not Man.
He is no longer as we are, but is higher than all that is under God Almighty. So he is no longer man as we are.Quote (karmarie @ April 19 2011,09:45) Hi Irene, how are you? This is what Istari said, and what I understand he meant.
Quote It has been established that he is not Angel.
Any More. He is now higher than that.Quote It has been established that he is not God.
Scripture says there is only ONE God and there will never be another God. So Jesus isnt God Almighty.Quote It is said that he Is not Spirit.
Jesus said to the Disciples he is not a spirit as spirits dont have flesh and bone as he had.Quote It has been said he is not Man.
He is no longer as we are, but is higher than all that is under God Almighty. So he is no longer man as we are.
Look at my respond to Istari, I disagree with some what He said, and if you believe too what He said, i disagree with you too. I gave scriptures why…..Go and read it. here I will say this. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God,. That Kingdom is in Heaven where God dwells, the Spritual Kingdom is within us. When Christ return's He will marry His bride the Church. In Spirit and in Truth we worship now, when all said and done, and all has been put into subjection to Christ, then Christ too will give the Kingdom back to Almighty God His father. All according to scriptures….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Baker @ April 19 2011,12:39) Quote (karmarie @ April 19 2011,09:37) So, Kathi and Mike, if I get this right…you both believe there are TWO EQUAL Gods?
No at least Mike does not believe they are equal.and I don't think Kathy does not either……Irene
Mike and Kathi, no need to reply, I found the answer.
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