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I saw this in another thread mentioned and figured to give it it's own thread. I was born a Muslim and never celebrated holidays. When I became a Christian I looked forward to celebrating them except I couldn't find them in the Bible (Christmas,Easter,etc). I understand that Romans 14:5-6 say,” One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks”.
The Bible also tells us to come out and be seperate. How can I truly celebrate a day that all the wicked celebrate , and has no scriptural background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world, but be you transformed?”
You are correct Sultan, these are traditions of men and are condemned in the Holy scriptures( Jer. 10), ( Ezek.8), and are another practice of paganisim by syncretisim that this world's religious organizations are steeped in, and teach their children lies, which also are im-purities in the true worship of Yah Almighty.
Evidently it must be ok to lie all year long, because people are telling their children and saying…..
“” If you don't be good, ol Santa want bring you any presents at christmas time.”” Unquote.
Why isn't this lying too?
This is a true happening below.Its like the little boy who grew up thinking there was a Santa( because his parents taught him the tradition of heathen men about christmas) who brought gifts to everyone at christmas time, however, when he( the little boy) grew to be older, he found out that Ol Santa was not real, then, the young man said to himself…..
“””” Since my parents told me a lie about Ol Santa, then I'm gonna check out all this big business about Je'sus Christ, maybe they have lied to me about him too.”” Unquote.
But ofcourse he( the young boy) was also lied to about the true Name of the Father( who is Yah-See Psalms 68:4), and that ” God= Gawd, a Babylonian deity( Isa.65:11) ” and is only a title really for satan ( 2 Cor.4:4) and his mark which is branded in his deceived people's foreheads( Rev.13:16-17), which he was also lied to about the true Messiah too, because the young man also found out, that the Messiah's true real name was not really a Greek- Latin-Je'sus- because He was born of a Virgin a Jewish Hebrew , but that His real Name was Yahshua a Jewish Hebrew.
Is such evil traditions of men not lying to children, which is bearing false witness, and breaking Yahweh's Commandments ?
This little boy was me, however, Yah has taught me through His original scriptures by His Spirit which is His Truth( John 17:17), to not follow lies and myths taught by this world.
I think the problem is most people look into this WAY TO MUCH, as long as you arn't lying to your kids, I don't think there is an issue. The whole hey lets get a christmas tree, lets sing Christmas Songs about Jesus in a manger. I mean come on people is this really something that will send you to heaven or hell, as long as your not loving to lie to your kids about Santa Clause.
If you were to look at Christmas Bad then lets bring out all the other subjects.
Christmas has intertwined pagan traditions
Driving over 65 MPH is illegal
Is driving a car a sin, since it isn't taking care of what God gave you?
Is using a plastic bag instead of a ummm well your hands to carry groceries a sin, because you are using Oil for selfish gain which depletes many of the earth's natural recycling processes, paper bags cuts down millions of trees a year. And really you are using a bag to? Save some time? Considered Selfish, even indirectly.
Turning on your heat, when not needed? AC because wwwwahhh you are too hot? SelfishDoes anything listed up there send you to hell?
No, and neither does wrapping some presents for your kids, singing a few manger songs, drinking some good ole fashion rum eggnog. You get wrapped up to tight, and you end up not living, you end up being concerned about how everyone else is wrong and how you won't sin tomorrow.Until then, Happy Hannukah, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and all that other mumbo jumbo.
Quote (callsign @ Dec. 21 2005,06:09) I think the problem is most people look into this WAY TO MUCH, as long as you arn't lying to your kids, I don't think there is an issue. The whole hey lets get a christmas tree, lets sing Christmas Songs about Jesus in a manger. I mean come on people is this really something that will send you to heaven or hell, as long as your not loving to lie to your kids about Santa Clause. If you were to look at Christmas Bad then lets bring out all the other subjects.
Christmas has intertwined pagan traditions
Driving over 65 MPH is illegal
Is driving a car a sin, since it isn't taking care of what God gave you?
Is using a plastic bag instead of a ummm well your hands to carry groceries a sin, because you are using Oil for selfish gain which depletes many of the earth's natural recycling processes, paper bags cuts down millions of trees a year. And really you are using a bag to? Save some time? Considered Selfish, even indirectly.
Turning on your heat, when not needed? AC because wwwwahhh you are too hot? SelfishDoes anything listed up there send you to hell?
No, and neither does wrapping some presents for your kids, singing a few manger songs, drinking some good ole fashion rum eggnog. You get wrapped up to tight, and you end up not living, you end up being concerned about how everyone else is wrong and how you won't sin tomorrow.Until then, Happy Hannukah, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and all that other mumbo jumbo.
Hello c,
You still never answered the question. Is Christmas Biblical?There is no Christmas celebration in the Bible. Christ nor anyone in the Bible told us to celebrate Christ's birth. We are told to commemorate his death in the Bible. This is the only thing we are commanded to memorialize. His birth was necessary so that he could die as a ransom for mankind. But it was his death that accomplished so much and it is his death that we are commanded to remember. “Keep doing this in remembrance of me,” Jesus told his followers when he institued this. (Luke 22:19,20) Regarding the Lord’s Evening Meal, Paul said: “As often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.” (1 Corinthians 11:26)
Nowhere in the Bible is there a hint that we are to celebrate Jesus' birth. If you look in the “Birthdays” thread, you will see that the early Christians, Jesus' true followers considered the birthday celebration itself to be a pagan custom and had nothing to do with birthdays. It wasn't until a few hundred years later that this opinion changed, as fortold.
Christmas really has very little to do with Jesus. It isn't the date of his birth. He definitely wasn't born at that time. There are about five biblical points that prove he couldn't have been born at that time. History and all the encycledias point to pagan celebrations (the birth of Mithraand the Festival of Saturnalia) as the reason for establishing Jesus' birth on Dec 25. These pagan festivals with their pagan traditions and customs of which we now also enjoy were a part of history for quite some time before Jesus' birth. In an attempt to Christianize those pagan customs and pull empires together, they put a Christian stamp on paganism. This IS NOT A BIBLICAL PRACTICE. For example, when the Israelites made the golden calf, and had a celebration and called it: “a festival to Jehovah,” did that make it ok? Or rather, did God execute the offenders? (Compare 2 Cor 6:14-16) Jehovah has seen first hand where these things came from. Not many people stop to ask why the Christmas tree? Why the lights? The holly, misltoe, the exchanging of gifts? They all come from the pagan celebration that has had it's name changed to Christmas. God knows this.Also, the lies: It's not just Santa Clause. Of course, if you trace St. Nickolous (I believe the Norwegian origin) of Santa, you will find St. Nick has some dark roots too. Some false god, Wodin, I believe. But even the so called 3 wise men who are often pictured as kings. Look at the Bible. They are actually an unspecified number of magi or astrologers from the east. They arrived at the “house” where Jesus was staying most likely a few years later based on the decree to have all children of 2 years and younger destroyed. They never made it to the stable or saw the shepards.
Christmas is a lovely false story that people tell their children and they tell their children. It is based on falsehood and paganism. Does God enjoy either?david.
Are cars Biblical?
Is your Birthday Biblical?
Are plastic bags biblical?
Is Samuel Adams Beer Biblical?
Are washing Machines Biblical?
Are Computers Biblical?
Is the United States Biblical?I am sure I can find dark roots in all of those, if I wanted to, but I have many more important things to do then to scrutinize them.
Quote (callsign @ Dec. 21 2005,15:39) Are cars Biblical?
Is your Birthday Biblical?
Are plastic bags biblical?
Is Samuel Adams Beer Biblical?
Are washing Machines Biblical?
Are Computers Biblical?
Is the United States Biblical?I am sure I can find dark roots in all of those, if I wanted to, but I have many more important things to do then to scrutinize them.
Do all the things you named claim to be Christian or Biblical? NO. So once again you have not answered the question.Are you just the most ” I like to put words in everyone's mouth” kind of argumentetive person, maybe you lack self confidence in real life so you just quote stuff and try to raise soemone to argue with you to feel important. Did I ever say Christmas is biblical, you people are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill trying to be better then thou.
Its pretty easy, if you got a problem with it DONT DO IT, but dont press your Everything is PAGAN on the everyone that truley believes in Christianity, before catholosism and before all these anti-christs running around. I know what it is, you go to that building that I don't go to? Am I right? You walk into a building that holds a CROSS up high and worships the cross right, well if anything is a pagan symbol that is.
“The Bible also tells us to come out and be seperate. How can I truly celebrate a day that all the wicked celebrate , and has no scriptural background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world, but be you transformed?” ” QUOTING YOU
Read this over again, you don't ask a question about IS CHRISTMAS BIBLICAL, you slander everyone for celebrating it and ask a question, how can I celebrate a day that all wicked celebrate, has no scriptual background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed” well I listed a bunch of stuff that isn't in the bible, created by man, some have pagan background. And you slander me. Here is my 2 cents….
READ WHAT YOU WRITE, before you start to just ramble on and say something you didn't state, you my friend are like every person that goes to those buildings. Don't argue unless you have some point.
My point is, if you are making this argument based on the question at hand, THEN dont drive, dont use the computer, dont drink, and all the other stuff I mentioned and anything else. Otherwise come up with a new arguement before slandering millions and million and millions of people trying to say your better then everyone else.
“The Bible also tells us to come out and be seperate. How can I truly celebrate a day that all the wicked celebrate , and has no scriptural background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world, but be you transformed?” ” QUOTING YOU
Read this over again, you don't ask a question about IS CHRISTMAS BIBLICAL, you slander everyone for celebrating it and ask a question, how can I celebrate a day that all wicked celebrate, has no scriptual background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed” well I listed a bunch of stuff that isn't in the bible, created by man, some have pagan background. And you slander me. Here is my 2 cents….
READ WHAT YOU WRITE, before you start to just ramble on and say something you didn't state, you my friend are like every person that goes to those buildings. Don't argue unless you have some point.
My point is, if you are making this argument based on the question at hand, THEN dont drive, dont use the computer, dont drink, and all the other stuff I mentioned and anything else. Otherwise come up with a new arguement before slandering millions and million and millions of people trying to say your better then everyone else.
ROMANS 12:2
“And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”EPHESIANS 5:17
“On this account cease becoming unreasonable, but go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is.”1 THESSALONIANS 5:21
“Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.”So, do you feel that Christmas isn't Biblical, but that it's not really a big enough thing to be concerned with? The word “Biblical” might be vague.
Let's ask this: How does God view Christmas and the things associated with Christmas?You are right, the cross is definitely pagan. The greek words in the Bible often translated “cross” are “stauros” and “xylon,” neither of which mean “cross.” The pagan symbol of the cross has infiltrated Christendom, as have many pagan holidays. On account of such things, God's wrath is coming.
Callsign, some people make the same point about the cross. Callsign, if your son was stabbed with a sword, would you make a model of that sword and hang it around your neck, and kiss it and adore it? Or, rather, would you loathe the instrument of your sons death?
It's true, Jesus' death means everything to us. But the instrument of his death where he died a horrific, aganoizing death, isn't something we should adore.
But it's easy to say: “Whatever. You're making a mountain out of nothing.”
Such things may be mole hills to you. That means nothing. The question is: What are such things to God?Quote (callsign @ Dec. 22 2005,00:46) Are you just the most ” I like to put words in everyone's mouth” kind of argumentetive person, maybe you lack self confidence in real life so you just quote stuff and try to raise soemone to argue with you to feel important. Did I ever say Christmas is biblical, you people are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill trying to be better then thou. Its pretty easy, if you got a problem with it DONT DO IT, but dont press your Everything is PAGAN on the everyone that truley believes in Christianity, before catholosism and before all these anti-christs running around. I know what it is, you go to that building that I don't go to? Am I right? You walk into a building that holds a CROSS up high and worships the cross right, well if anything is a pagan symbol that is.
callsign,
I asked YOU the question twice, and you avoided it. Now you're avoiding it again with personal attacks about self-confidence, and going back to quote my statement. My statement is not a question. Also this is a forum, you know a place for discussion. So I can post about whatever I want.I don't worship idols, so no my church that I pastor does not have any crosses. We are non-denominational because I am not concerned with mens doctrines, but I appreciate the Bible.
Whenever you are finished with you're fit, can you please answer my question. Is Christmas Biblical? Thank you.
Quote (callsign @ Dec. 22 2005,00:53) “The Bible also tells us to come out and be seperate. How can I truly celebrate a day that all the wicked celebrate , and has no scriptural background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world, but be you transformed?” ” QUOTING YOU Read this over again, you don't ask a question about IS CHRISTMAS BIBLICAL, you slander everyone for celebrating it and ask a question, how can I celebrate a day that all wicked celebrate, has no scriptual background, and was created by man, and still obey God when He says, Be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed” well I listed a bunch of stuff that isn't in the bible, created by man, some have pagan background. And you slander me. Here is my 2 cents….
READ WHAT YOU WRITE, before you start to just ramble on and say something you didn't state, you my friend are like every person that goes to those buildings. Don't argue unless you have some point.
My point is, if you are making this argument based on the question at hand, THEN dont drive, dont use the computer, dont drink, and all the other stuff I mentioned and anything else. Otherwise come up with a new arguement before slandering millions and million and millions of people trying to say your better then everyone else.
Slandering millions and millions and millions of people. Slander: Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
The only one here guilty of slander is you Callsign. Wicked people everwhere do celebrate Christmas,it has no scriptual background, was created by man,and is a conformation to this world system. I could careless about peoples reputation at the expense of Christ.
Unlike you Callsign my statement was general, but you personally slandered me.Anything false and pagan of this world, and that is not written or practiced in the original scriptures is against and an enemy of Almighty Yah, and this whole religious world practices “” syncretisim “” of paganisim( which is worldly customs and traditions, including false title names of the Creator) and is condemned by Almighty Yah in scriptures, whether you choose to believe or accept it or not.
A little leaven of paganisim of the world, including false pagan title name deities leavens the whole lump.
Tomorrow( Dec.25th) is the age old syncrenized pagan day called the Brumalia day that was practiced long before the birth of the true Yahshua Messiah.
( Jer.10:2-4) 2 Thus saith YAHWEH of hosts, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain( meaning they are doing it for nothing): for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Actually, this day was first celebrated on Dec.17th, then on Dec.,21, and finally on Dec.25th, which is really and actually the birthday of NIMROD= IHS- He'sus that is on the Catholic Pope's very hat that he wears on his head.
Yah says, “” learn not the way of the heathen or pagans””, he never said to just follow them and go along with them and do as they do.
A little leaven of paganisim of the world, including false pagan title names such as ” G-d “, (which is also pagan or of heathen origin too), of other nations deities leavens the whole lump.
I think Paul said something similar to this, and so did someone on this forum too.
Shalom( Peace)
Eliyah C.
callsign ,
Quote My point is, if you are making this argument based on the question at hand, THEN dont drive, dont use the computer, dont drink, and all the other stuff I mentioned and anything else. Otherwise come up with a new arguement before slandering millions and million and millions of people trying to say your better then everyone else Where in Sultan's writings did he slander you or millions?
And what makes you think that because the true BRIDE of YAHshua Messiah's Elect strives to be without spot and wrinkle from this worlds false witness of traditions of men that the world teaches and lives is slandering millions, and claiming to be better than others?
As Thee Apostle put it, be not conformed to this world but be renewed , and not to this world and its ways, and know you not that to be a friend of this worlds false pagan customs, traditions, and idols is to be an enemy of Yah Almighty ?
There is no such thing as keeping a little paganisim is ok, but throw out the big paganisim to Almighty Yah, a little is the same as a big lot in His sight.
That's like saying its ok to do a little sin, but not to do a big lot of sin, which is ridiculous, a sin is a sin no matter whether little or big in Yah's sight.
Sultan must be commended for his seeing the need to throw out all that is pagan which is an enemy of Yah Almighty, and his testimony in reproving this world and its pagan idols is not slander, but reproving this evil world of its unrighteous deeds that it practices and leads others astray from the truth of scriptures.
Great find of the passage of the tree, Eliyah. I knew many idols were cut out of wood, but I didn't know that trees themselves could be idols. It makes you wonder why there are gifts at the bottom of the tree.
Anyway, though the origins of the holiday are clear, I believe we shouldn't make judgements on brother who celebrate Christmas unknowing of it's origins. We should telll them, of course, but we shouldn't assume they're going to hell, especially if they truly follow Yah.
Let me explain. Earlier this week at work, My co-worker and his newly wed wife had a problem with moving into their new home, and they can't legally live there until next week. He was very calm about the situation. His wife, however, was not so. She was in tears, saying she didn't want to wake up on Christmas morning in an empty apartment with no tree. He was trying to calm her down, saying that the reason for celebrating was the birth of Yahweh's son, and we should be thankful.
So the point I'm trying to make here is that they are believers out there who celebrate Christmas for the reason of Yahshua/Yashua/Jesus' (Which one is the “real” name?) birth, regardless of everyone else. I guess you could say there is a difference between Christmas and CHRISTmas.
It really bothers me how people celebrate the holiday only for the reason that everyone else does. It's disgusting how people mix sin with the supposed birth of the saviour. What also is troubling is the fact that people think they should be more generous and loving during Christmas, but it's okay being an ass the rest of the year. As for us, we should celebrate Jesus day–every day. Every day on earth should be a holiday, for we are blessed by the grace and love of our Father.
Alrighty, next question: Is Hanukkah Biblical? I haven't found anything in the scriptures, but according to the History Channel, Hanukkah is based on a revolution due to the Jew's refusal to worship false gods.
Quote (MrBob @ Dec. 25 2005,11:16) Great find of the passage of the tree, Eliyah. I knew many idols were cut out of wood, but I didn't know that trees themselves could be idols. It makes you wonder why there are gifts at the bottom of the tree. Anyway, though the origins of the holiday are clear, I believe we shouldn't make judgements on brother who celebrate Christmas unknowing of it's origins. We should telll them, of course, but we shouldn't assume they're going to hell, especially if they truly follow Yah.
Let me explain. Earlier this week at work, My co-worker and his newly wed wife had a problem with moving into their new home, and they can't legally live there until next week. He was very calm about the situation. His wife, however, was not so. She was in tears, saying she didn't want to wake up on Christmas morning in an empty apartment with no tree. He was trying to calm her down, saying that the reason for celebrating was the birth of Yahweh's son, and we should be thankful.
So the point I'm trying to make here is that they are believers out there who celebrate Christmas for the reason of Yahshua/Yashua/Jesus' (Which one is the “real” name?) birth, regardless of everyone else. I guess you could say there is a difference between Christmas and CHRISTmas.
It really bothers me how people celebrate the holiday only for the reason that everyone else does. It's disgusting how people mix sin with the supposed birth of the saviour. What also is troubling is the fact that people think they should be more generous and loving during Christmas, but it's okay being an ass the rest of the year. As for us, we should celebrate Jesus day–every day. Every day on earth should be a holiday, for we are blessed by the grace and love of our Father.
Alrighty, next question: Is Hanukkah Biblical? I haven't found anything in the scriptures, but according to the History Channel, Hanukkah is based on a revolution due to the Jew's refusal to worship false gods.
Mr. Bob,
Amen brother.
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