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I just realized this year that Satan is NEVER called Angel anywhere in the bible. The only “reference” to Satan being an angel is 2 Corinthians 2:14 but Satan is also referenced to being a god in 2 Corinthians 4:4.
Is it possible he was just a high level spirit creature who was never a messenger of good news from God(angel)?
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 11 2011,08:21) I just realized this year that Satan is NEVER called Angel anywhere in the bible. The only “reference” to Satan being an angel is 2 Corinthians 2:14 but Satan is also referenced to being a god in 2 Corinthians 4:4. Is it possible he was just a high level spirit creature who was never a messenger of good news from God(angel)?
very possible.
the bible also says he was a liar from the begining or murderer. i dont remember which.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 11 2011,14:32) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 11 2011,08:21) I just realized this year that Satan is NEVER called Angel anywhere in the bible. The only “reference” to Satan being an angel is 2 Corinthians 2:14 but Satan is also referenced to being a god in 2 Corinthians 4:4. Is it possible he was just a high level spirit creature who was never a messenger of good news from God(angel)?
very possible.
the bible also says he was a liar from the begining or murderer. i dont remember which.
Jesus says that but I don't remember uses my secret bible encyclopedia(not Catholic)John 8:42 reads 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 11 2011,09:50) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 11 2011,14:32) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 11 2011,08:21) I just realized this year that Satan is NEVER called Angel anywhere in the bible. The only “reference” to Satan being an angel is 2 Corinthians 2:14 but Satan is also referenced to being a god in 2 Corinthians 4:4. Is it possible he was just a high level spirit creature who was never a messenger of good news from God(angel)?
very possible.
the bible also says he was a liar from the begining or murderer. i dont remember which.
Jesus says that but I don't remember uses my secret bible encyclopedia(not Catholic)John 8:42 reads 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].
Well than there you go. Revelations always calls him a Dragon, and in Genesis a serpent. its just speculation that he was ever a good angel.The book of Adam claims that the Devil is a angel as well
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 11 2011,14:21) I just realized this year that Satan is NEVER called Angel anywhere in the bible. The only “reference” to Satan being an angel is 2 Corinthians 2:14 but Satan is also referenced to being a god in 2 Corinthians 4:4. Is it possible he was just a high level spirit creature who was never a messenger of good news from God(angel)?
Hi! Scripture that tells us that Satan was an Angel, a beautiful Archangel, until he became vain…..Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast
out with him.Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee
Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Peace and Love Irene
Isaiah and Ezekial are used in reference to a King not Satan.
I learned that from Numbers (Marty) he turned out to be right. If we read those texts biasely of course we would think that, but when you take it the way it is, you can see that it has nothing to do with Satan.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,07:54) Isaiah and Ezekial are used in reference to a King not Satan. I learned that from Numbers (Marty) he turned out to be right. If we read those texts biasely of course we would think that, but when you take it the way it is, you can see that it has nothing to do with Satan.
SF You obviously don't know what a cherub is? And what Lucifer is? They are not Kings. Lucifer was a Cherub an Angel a higher ranking Angel then a regular Angel….like Gabriel and Michael is…..
that what Satan was…before iniquity was fond in him…. Eze. talks about Him when He still went back and forth, from earth to Heaven.
And Isiah talks about when Lucifer fell from Heaven…..etc.What is ironic, that we in the Catholic Church knew back then in 1955-1985 before we left, what a cherub was, and we never read the Bible back then….Marty is wrong….
Quote (Baker @ April 12 2011,03:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,07:54) Isaiah and Ezekial are used in reference to a King not Satan. I learned that from Numbers (Marty) he turned out to be right. If we read those texts biasely of course we would think that, but when you take it the way it is, you can see that it has nothing to do with Satan.
SF You obviously don't know what a cherub is? And what Lucifer is? They are not Kings. Lucifer was a Cherub an Angel a higher ranking Angel then a regular Angel….like Gabriel and Michael is…..
that what Satan was…before iniquity was fond in him…. Eze. talks about Him when He still went back and forth, from earth to Heaven.
And Isiah talks about when Lucifer fell from Heaven…..etc.What is ironic, that we in the Catholic Church knew back then in 1955-1985 before we left, what a cherub was, and we never read the Bible back then….Marty is wrong….
Irene,
dont take it so personally.
But you interpret it that way because its a preconceived belief becasue someone told you that, as you stated it yourself above.Read the passage again, and you will see thats it speaks of King Tyrus in the same chapter and in reference to him and him alone. and also the other king.
and Marty Helped me see that, though i denyed it. But its true to what he says.
I do know what a Cherub is and what a Lucifer is, you dont have to treat me so rudely as If im an idioit Irene.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,10:13) Quote (Baker @ April 12 2011,03:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,07:54) Isaiah and Ezekial are used in reference to a King not Satan. I learned that from Numbers (Marty) he turned out to be right. If we read those texts biasely of course we would think that, but when you take it the way it is, you can see that it has nothing to do with Satan.
SF You obviously don't know what a cherub is? And what Lucifer is? They are not Kings. Lucifer was a Cherub an Angel a higher ranking Angel then a regular Angel….like Gabriel and Michael is…..
that what Satan was…before iniquity was fond in him…. Eze. talks about Him when He still went back and forth, from earth to Heaven.
And Isiah talks about when Lucifer fell from Heaven…..etc.What is ironic, that we in the Catholic Church knew back then in 1955-1985 before we left, what a cherub was, and we never read the Bible back then….Marty is wrong….
Irene,
dont take it so personally.
But you interpret it that way because its a preconceived belief becasue someone told you that, as you stated it yourself above.Read the passage again, and you will see thats it speaks of King Tyrus in the same chapter and in reference to him and him alone. and also the other king.
and Marty Helped me see that, though i denyed it. But its true to what he says.
I do know what a Cherub is and what a Lucifer is, you dont have to treat me so rudely as If im an idioit Irene.
I don't take anything personal, are you kidding!!!
Also a Cherub being King Tyrus??? How did he fall from Heaven?
Believe me I left all my former believes behind. That was a long long time ago…..But if you believe that, so be it, nothing lost…..
I looked Isaiah 14:12 up on the Internet, and they agree with me, that it is Satan……I don't see any King in that Scripture. It also makes no sense, that Lucifer fallen from Heaven is King Tyrus……
sorry if you thought I was rude, I don't see that at all…..
What did I say that made you believe that?
Irene.Quote (Baker @ April 12 2011,13:44) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,10:13) Quote (Baker @ April 12 2011,03:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,07:54) Isaiah and Ezekial are used in reference to a King not Satan. I learned that from Numbers (Marty) he turned out to be right. If we read those texts biasely of course we would think that, but when you take it the way it is, you can see that it has nothing to do with Satan.
SF You obviously don't know what a cherub is? And what Lucifer is? They are not Kings. Lucifer was a Cherub an Angel a higher ranking Angel then a regular Angel….like Gabriel and Michael is…..
that what Satan was…before iniquity was fond in him…. Eze. talks about Him when He still went back and forth, from earth to Heaven.
And Isiah talks about when Lucifer fell from Heaven…..etc.What is ironic, that we in the Catholic Church knew back then in 1955-1985 before we left, what a cherub was, and we never read the Bible back then….Marty is wrong….
Irene,
dont take it so personally.
But you interpret it that way because its a preconceived belief becasue someone told you that, as you stated it yourself above.Read the passage again, and you will see thats it speaks of King Tyrus in the same chapter and in reference to him and him alone. and also the other king.
and Marty Helped me see that, though i denyed it. But its true to what he says.
I do know what a Cherub is and what a Lucifer is, you dont have to treat me so rudely as If im an idioit Irene. I don't take anything personal, are you kidding!!!
Also a Cherub being King Tyrus??? How did he fall from Heaven?
Believe me I left all my former believes behind. That was a long long time ago…..But if you believe that, so be it, nothing lost…..
I looked Isaiah 14:12 up on the Internet, and they agree with me, that it is Satan……I don't see any King in that Scripture. It also makes no sense, that Lucifer fallen from Heaven is King Tyrus……
sorry if you thought I was rude, I don't see that at all…..
What did I say that made you believe that?
Irene.
While you can say the devil is a lightbearer or was a lightbearer if you combine the Isaiah verse and 2 Corinthians 2:14, even this doesn't prove he's an angel but instead it proves he was a spirit creature of light.As for the Revelation verses this doesn't prove Satan is an angel but proves he was the “original serpent” and in charge of rebel messengers of satan or “his angels”
Quote (Baker @ April 12 2011,07:44) I don't take anything personal, are you kidding!!!
Also a Cherub being King Tyrus??? How did he fall from Heaven?
Believe me I left all my former believes behind. That was a long long time ago…..But if you believe that, so be it, nothing lost…..
I looked Isaiah 14:12 up on the Internet, and they agree with me, that it is Satan……I don't see any King in that Scripture. It also makes no sense, that Lucifer fallen from Heaven is King Tyrus……
sorry if you thought I was rude, I don't see that at all…..
What did I say that made you believe that?
Irene.
Ezekiel 27
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;
3And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.
4Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.Ezekiel 28
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.God also called Tyrus perfect beauty?
It never says heaven in the chapter it says holy mountain.Are you sure you left you early beliefs becasue you mentioned “heaven” which had nothing to do with the chapter. He did speak of Eden though.
Lets look at Isaiah
Isaiah 14:4
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!“You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of Heaven has given you a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wherever the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens live, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all. You are this head of gold” (Daniel 2:37-38 MKJV).
compare the Two scriptures and its obvious that the scripture is direct towards Nebuchadnezzar. in Isaiah when you compare the two.all lucifer means is the “morning star” doesnt mean that Its satan. and Satan is never called Lucifer in any other place in the bible.
Because you stated that I dont know what a Cherub is or Lucifer and kindof mocked me about it.
I can endure jokes, but we have to reach that level of friendship first so that you may be able to joke around like that. Its a progressive relationship.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,15:09) Quote (Baker @ April 12 2011,07:44) I don't take anything personal, are you kidding!!!
Also a Cherub being King Tyrus??? How did he fall from Heaven?
Believe me I left all my former believes behind. That was a long long time ago…..But if you believe that, so be it, nothing lost…..
I looked Isaiah 14:12 up on the Internet, and they agree with me, that it is Satan……I don't see any King in that Scripture. It also makes no sense, that Lucifer fallen from Heaven is King Tyrus……
sorry if you thought I was rude, I don't see that at all…..
What did I say that made you believe that?
Irene.
Ezekiel 27
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;
3And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.
4Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.Ezekiel 28
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.God also called Tyrus perfect beauty?
It never says heaven in the chapter it says holy mountain.Are you sure you left you early beliefs becasue you mentioned “heaven” which had nothing to do with the chapter. He did speak of Eden though.
Lets look at Isaiah
Isaiah 14:4
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!“You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of Heaven has given you a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wherever the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens live, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all. You are this head of gold” (Daniel 2:37-38 MKJV).
compare the Two scriptures and its obvious that the scripture is direct towards Nebuchadnezzar. in Isaiah when you compare the two.all lucifer means is the “morning star” doesnt mean that Its satan. and Satan is never called Lucifer in any other place in the bible.
Because you stated that I dont know what a Cherub is or Lucifer and kindof mocked me about it.
I can endure jokes, but we have to reach that level of friendship first so that you may be able to joke around like that. Its a progressive relationship.
You sure lucifer means morning star instead of lightbearer? And if so is Jesus a Lucifier?Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 12 2011,09:31) You sure lucifer means morning star instead of lightbearer? And if so is Jesus a Lucifier?
morning star, light bearrer, whatever. It doesnt matter, it doesnt mean more than the defintion.
Lucifer is another name for Venus also, and its part of greek mythology.Jesus IS THE LIGHT, not the bearer of light.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,15:35) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 12 2011,09:31) You sure lucifer means morning star instead of lightbearer? And if so is Jesus a Lucifier?
morning star, light bearrer, whatever. It doesnt matter, it doesnt mean more than the defintion.
Lucifer is another name for Venus also, and its part of greek mythology.Jesus IS THE LIGHT, not the bearer of light.
Revelation 22:16 reads 16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 12 2011,10:25) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 12 2011,15:35) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 12 2011,09:31) You sure lucifer means morning star instead of lightbearer? And if so is Jesus a Lucifier?
morning star, light bearrer, whatever. It doesnt matter, it doesnt mean more than the defintion.
Lucifer is another name for Venus also, and its part of greek mythology.Jesus IS THE LIGHT, not the bearer of light.
Revelation 22:16 reads 16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”
Greek and hebrew differ.
Its not a big deal to be held on that subject.But you got ur answers about the devil. dont know what else to tell you
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