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Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 04 2008,01:32) Sin is “a transgression of God's will” but Jesus said “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does”. His life reflected the love and mercy of the Father and His anger for the self-righteous, sounds sinless to me.
Hi Wm,Do you think Jesus could have sinned?
Thanks,
MandyWell if he did not have the ability to sin? What was the purpose of him being tempted?
I mean how do you tempt something to sin that can not sin?
It's pointless.
The fact of the matter is Jesus could have sinned…but he did not.
Else he would not have been able to fulfill the prophesy, and thus we would not be able to get forgiveness for our sins either.
He came into this world just as we are. And, refused to sin. He did what we could not do.
Plain and simple.
Quote I mean how do you tempt something to sin that can not sin? Quote The fact of the matter is Jesus could have sinned…but he did not. ??!
Stuart
Quote (Samuel @ Sep. 03 2008,13:53) Well if he did not have the ability to sin? What was the purpose of him being tempted? I mean how do you tempt something to sin that can not sin?
It's pointless.
The fact of the matter is Jesus could have sinned…but he did not.
Else he would not have been able to fulfill the prophesy, and thus we would not be able to get forgiveness for our sins either.
He came into this world just as we are. And, refused to sin. He did what we could not do.
Plain and simple.
What is “sin”?The dictionary defines it as “a transgression of God's will”. I believe it was you that asked if Jesus ever claimed to not have sinned. He did state emphatically in many places how He did nothing of Himself but was doing the Fathers will.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 03 2008,18:20) The dictionary defines it as “a transgression of God's will”. I believe it was you that asked if Jesus ever claimed to not have sinned. He did state emphatically in many places how He did nothing of Himself but was doing the Fathers will.
So just as long as he claimed to be doing God's will, he never sinned? How do we know he was doing God's will if God supposedly gave the Torah which Jesus broke on several occasions?So Is sin what you have been lead to believe Gods will is?
Was Adam the first Man to teach, I heard from God, and all are punished as a sinners for hearing those things that were hid in God, and from the beginning
Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Did Jesus say he heard from God?
How can Adam know what was hid?
For the waste of many men, came to the truth, O coarse No sin and condemnation is found in him.
For sin was given and passed on in one Man.the twisting and turning for the sake of Adams words to be respected, has eventuated into a conclusion that may fit what everyone didn't assume once as the sin from the beginning in Adam. pretending to hear the hid things from God? -charity
Just another coment closer to the DAYS OF Jesus
Because of Adam they either hate the fruit, or Hate the tree, these are Judeans?The Gospel of Thomas
42 Jesus said, “Be passersby.”
43 His disciples said to him, “Who are you to say these things to us?” “You don't understand who I am from what I say to you. Rather, you have become like the Judeans, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree.”And How Miserable is the body that depends on the body, and the soul court up between? Because of Adams wealth he was respected for his stab at what was hidden and should only be known in Gods time?
The Gospel of Thomas
85 Jesus said, “Adam came from great power and great wealth, but he was not worthy of you. For had he been worthy, [he would] not [have tasted] death.”86 Jesus said, “[Foxes have] their dens and birds have their nests, but human beings have no place to lay down and rest.”
87 Jesus said, “How miserable is the body that depends on a body, and how
miserable is the soul that depends on these two.”Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 03 2008,22:32) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 03 2008,13:33) Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 03 2008,02:16) I am not jumping on the bandwagon as if to accuse Jesus of something bad.
I have always wondered why we said that He was sinless.
If anyone else in those times had broken even the least of the laws of God,
they would have been cast as a sinner. And probably stoned to death to boot.
But Jesus worked on the sabbath, He refused to follow the law of stoning a
prostitute, and He perhaps told a little untruth about the feast. Remember there are different kinds
of lies, and a lie of ommision is still a lie.Now the fact that He did many of these things for good reason is true.
But it still “missed the mark” and was a sin if anyone other than Jesus had done it.
So why do we call Him sinless? Weren't the laws of God for everyone?
I have never been comfortable with the argument that with God you should do as I say,
not as I do, just because I am God.I would really like to know why those things were not considered sin just because
they were done by Jesus. Some explanation other than because God said so that is why.TIm
Hi Tim:The following scriptures will answer about the accusation of Jesus breaking the Sabbath:
Luk 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ass from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering?
Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luk 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.
Hi 94,
Thank you for the response.
But in Luke wasn't Jesus just saying the accusers were
hypocrites because He was just doing the same thing that
they were guilty of?Just because every one else was doing work on the sabbath,
did that make it an invalid law? Jesus not only healed on the sabbath, He and his followers gathered food on the sabbath.
That would have been considered a sin in those days.I am not trying to make Jesus oout to be a sinner. I merely want to know why it wasn't a sin when Jesus did something that would have been a sin if done by any body else.
Tim
Tim
No, Tim he was saying that they were hypocrites because they were accusing him of violating the Sabbath because he was helping those who need and comparing it to what they did when their animals needed watering. These were things that needed to be done whether or not it was the Sabbath day. These things did not violate the Sabbath day. If you are a farmer and the cows need to be milked that has to be done whether or not it is the Sabbath day.Jesus did not violate the Sabbath day.
Relative to the woman that the Pharisees accused of adultery and Jesus not stoning her, Jesus ushered in the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31). Under the Law the judgment for commiting adultery was death by stoning but as I discussed with you before this is when this violation was done defiantly. David commited adultery and more but he was forgiven when he repented, for example. Jesus told the woman he did not comdemn her but he told her to go and sin no more. Under the new covenant the gospel is to be preached to every indvidual, those who are not saved will be judged by the Word of God in the last day. In the OT judgment for the unsaved has already occured. Those who were stoned to death that was their judgment they won't incur any further judgment.
In NT all to whom the gospel has been preached who continue to practice sin wilfully, will be judged according to their works in the last day. Those who are alive when Jesus comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those who have died in their sins will be raised from the dead in the second resurrection and judged according to their works.
Quote Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Arrr
I don't want to shovel another book down the throat guys
thats what has created the messEcc 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books [there is] no end; and much study [is] a weariness of the flesh.
Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
but every word has a beginning, even the written sin, and thereof the beginning is where it maybe forsken.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 04 2008,07:04) Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 03 2008,18:20) The dictionary defines it as “a transgression of God's will”. I believe it was you that asked if Jesus ever claimed to not have sinned. He did state emphatically in many places how He did nothing of Himself but was doing the Fathers will.
So just as long as he claimed to be doing God's will, he never sinned? How do we know he was doing God's will if God supposedly gave the Torah which Jesus broke on several occasions?
I know of no occurrence of Him breaking the law, but we each read into scripture what we want, you look for what can be used to support your belief in a tyrant god (even if it requires taking some scriptures out of context), and I look for support for a loving God who did what He had to for the greater good (even if I have to change the traditional interpretation to harmonize with the whole). Obviously we are each biased (this post proves that) and not likely to come to any agreement. I will stand by my beliefs and hope that things turn out well for you.Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 03 2008,20:29) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 04 2008,07:04) Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 03 2008,18:20) The dictionary defines it as “a transgression of God's will”. I believe it was you that asked if Jesus ever claimed to not have sinned. He did state emphatically in many places how He did nothing of Himself but was doing the Fathers will.
So just as long as he claimed to be doing God's will, he never sinned? How do we know he was doing God's will if God supposedly gave the Torah which Jesus broke on several occasions?
I know of no occurrence of Him breaking the lawHe broke Sabbath on several occasions and spoke out against the dietary laws of the Torah in Gmark. He dishonored his mother on a few occasions. He did not properly observe the Passover by eating unleavened bread. He called the gentile woman a dog (goes against Exo 22:20, Deu 10:19). He spoke poorly of his fellow Jews. In GMark, he was baptized for the remission of sins.
Unless you are willing to nullify the Torah, Jesus did indeed sin.
Quote but we each read into scripture what we want, you look for what can be used to support your belief in a tyrant god (even if it requires taking some scriptures out of context), I am not looking for a tyrant God. I do not believe such an entity exists. Yahweh is a false view of God, IMHO. It is an insulting view, and wholly based on prejudice.
Not a single person on here has shown were Yahweh is not a tyrannical figure, context or not.
Quote and I look for support for a loving God who did what He had to for the greater good (even if I have to change the traditional interpretation to harmonize with the whole). Then you must pick and choose which parts of the bible support your view. The god of the bible is very bipolar.
Quote Obviously we are each biased (this post proves that) and not likely to come to any agreement. I will stand by my beliefs and hope that things turn out well for you. Wm
Ditto. I hope God does not hold your belief that the bible is infallible against you. I don't believe s/he will but it is just my belief.So you persecute the messiah.
You are no different to lots of people.
If you are there for him he will be for you. If not, then he will not be there for you.
He is the saviour of mankind and it is up to you whether you persecute him, ignore him, or accept his ministry.
But can you crucify the son of God twice, or would you want to?
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Here is a question.If I say that I am not going to go to work, then if I turn up the next day, is that a sin?
If I say I am not going to go to work, and I go 3 hours later, then is that a sin?
What is the time limit before something becomes a sin?
If I say that I am not going to work to those who I travel to work with, but turn up later, is that a sin? No because I didn't go to work with them as I said. It stands to reason that I am free to go to work after that.
Obviously Jesus didn't want to go publicly and went later privately. So if he said that he wasn't going with them at that time, then fine.
But sure go ahead and persecute the only one who can save you. You are free to do so, but when you make your own bed, you are the one who has to sleep in it.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,20:54) So you persecute the messiah. You are no different to lots of people.
If you are there for him he will be for you. If not, then he will not be there for you.
He is the saviour of mankind and it is up to you whether you persecute him, ignore him, or accept his ministry.
But can you crucify the son of God twice, or would you want to?
Would you have prefered the 'son of god' had not been crucified?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,03:54) So you persecute the messiah. What messiah? He may be the Christian messiah, but not the Jewish messiah.
Quote You are no different to lots of people. At least 2/3 of the world is like me, yes.
Quote If you are there for him he will be for you. If not, then he will not be there for you. Sorry, but I don't believe that a man who lived and died in the 1st century CE will be there for me
.Quote He is the saviour of mankind and it is up to you whether you persecute him, ignore him, or accept his ministry. According to the bible alone. What am I to do with the multitude of other religious texts that speak of different paths to heaven? What makes the bible any more valid than those texts? What if the “true” religion is none that we presently know?
Quote But can you crucify the son of God twice, or would you want to?
If you were there would you have saved him from the cross?Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,04:03) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:41) Quote (Tiffany @ Aug. 31 2008,12:15) kejonn How would you even know that. Are you forgetting that He was taught by our Heavenly Father long before any Human ever existed, at least I believe so. Knowing what was at stake here, Jesus did not sin.
Is lying a sin?Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
Joh 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.He purposely mislead (lied) in John 7:8.
Here is a question.If I say that I am not going to go to work, then if I turn up the next day, is that a sin?
The feast was one event. Quit being obtuse.
Quote If I say I am not going to go to work, and I go 3 hours later, then is that a sin? It would be a lie, yes.
Quote What is the time limit before something becomes a sin? Is this the best apologetics has to offer?
Quote If I say that I am not going to work to those who I travel to work with, but turn up later, is that a sin? No because I didn't go to work with them as I said. It stands to reason that I am free to go to work after that. Wrong. If you say you are not going to work without qualifying it, then you are lying. You did not say “I am not going to work with you, but will go by myself”. Thus, you are indeed telling a lie.
Quote Obviously Jesus didn't want to go publicly and went later privately. So if he said that he wasn't going with them at that time, then fine. Wrong. He did not qualify. He simply said he was not going, period. Thus, he lied.
Quote But sure go ahead and persecute the only one who can save you. You are free to do so, but when you make your own bed, you are the one who has to sleep in it.
Dead men cannot save anyone.What makes the myth of Jesus any more valid than the myth of Hercules?
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