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Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,12:51) I want a Heavenclub card. Then I can sell it on Trademe when the 144,000-seater bus is near-full! Stuart
Do you have a credit card?We also need a $500 setup fee.
143,999 places are taken. You need to be quick. Plus we will throw in a stay sharp knife.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 10 2008,19:35) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,12:51) I want a Heavenclub card. Then I can sell it on Trademe when the 144,000-seater bus is near-full! Stuart
Do you have a credit card?We also need a $500 setup fee.
143,999 places are taken. You need to be quick. Plus we will throw in a stay sharp knife.
Why? Will I need to defend myself in that company??Stuart
Quote What of the question which I have posed all too often, getting no reply at all, about what it is that you know that I cannot possibly know as a non-believer? “the peace of God that excels all thought….” Phil 4:7
Quote (david @ Aug. 10 2008,16:02) Quote What of the question which I have posed all too often, getting no reply at all, about what it is that you know that I cannot possibly know as a non-believer? “the peace of God that excels all thought….” Phil 4:7
From the evidence I see of Christians around me, their “peace” does not exceed my own. Next?I can't understand how a Label works as saved, what changes.
One can act as perverse UN Christian, and wear the Label
One can conduct themselves moral, and not wear the Label
Christian is a word? That seems to have power and force.
A ticket for a bus
A tablet that makes people secure?AS an Insurance policy to be collected after death?
O we are all grabbing for our chinny chin chin, hopers in vanity, gamblers with hopful myths?
NO offence If the moneys not down how can you win!
What choice have w got, if you don't forth the faith out, you could regrett, better to pass that emotion by, and be there not for fear of life. charityQuote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,23:54) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 10 2008,19:35) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,12:51) I want a Heavenclub card. Then I can sell it on Trademe when the 144,000-seater bus is near-full! Stuart
Do you have a credit card?We also need a $500 setup fee.
143,999 places are taken. You need to be quick. Plus we will throw in a stay sharp knife.
Why? Will I need to defend myself in that company??Stuart
No, the stay sharp knives give an extra incentive to buy and they cost us 5 bucks each.So, do I have a sale?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 11 2008,12:32) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,23:54) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 10 2008,19:35) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,12:51) I want a Heavenclub card. Then I can sell it on Trademe when the 144,000-seater bus is near-full! Stuart
Do you have a credit card?We also need a $500 setup fee.
143,999 places are taken. You need to be quick. Plus we will throw in a stay sharp knife.
Why? Will I need to defend myself in that company??Stuart
No, the stay sharp knives give an extra incentive to buy and they cost us 5 bucks each.So, do I have a sale?
So is it you holding the stay sharp knife as an 'extra incentive'?Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 11 2008,10:53) Quote (david @ Aug. 10 2008,16:02) Quote What of the question which I have posed all too often, getting no reply at all, about what it is that you know that I cannot possibly know as a non-believer? “the peace of God that excels all thought….” Phil 4:7
From the evidence I see of Christians around me, their “peace” does not exceed my own. Next?
Yes, I think I know the 'peace of god' all too well, in fact better than many christians.Deu 32:39-42 I kill … I wound … I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh.
Stuart
Stu if you don't want anything to do with God then that is your choice. No one of forcing you to believe, although I wouldn't be that surprised if you actually ended up a believer. I have seen quite a few people who spent a lot of time persecuting when what was really happening was they were being drawn to the truth, and after all their questions they ended up believers. My story is not too dissimilar. But even if you never end up believing I can assure you that once people pass on, they are all believers.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 11 2008,19:20) Stu if you don't want anything to do with God then that is your choice. No one of forcing you to believe, although I wouldn't be that surprised if you actually ended up a believer. I have seen quite a few people who spent a lot of time persecuting when what was really happening was they were being drawn to the truth, and after all their questions they ended up believers. My story is not too dissimilar. But even if you never end up believing I can assure you that once people pass on, they are all believers.
Are you ressurrected t8? Is this how you have such great knowledge of conversion in the hereafter? Of course it is too late for atheists then, especially those who have rejected Jesus as I do, so how do you justify that theologically? Not that I have any repect for theology.I wish I could have nothing to do with god but the history of social legislation and restrictions on medical research and practice in NZ, as elsewhere, has been persistently dragged backwards towards medieval attitudes by the reactionary righteous in the name of their god, causing misery often only to those who do not share the christian delusion. If the christian argument was that homosexuals should be persecuted because it brings these greater benefits for everyone as shown by the evidence then that would be something, but we both know it is not half as sophisticated as that. The JWs and LDS knock on the door; the religious hijack public occasions like ANZAC day dawn parades; the zealots insist on prayers to start parliamentary sessions but never question what god was doing when the legislation went against them…
I would love to escape god. Maybe it will, in this secular egalitarian democratic society, eventually be possible. Less that 50% of NZers identify as christian. Maybe we are freeing ourselves of it.
My only hope for eternal justice is that god will cast a savage judgement on all those who bothered him, caused others to bother him or bothered other people unnecessarily in his name, instead of trusting the faculties god gave them to live good lives on their own account, an act of which we are all capable. Of course I don't really think any of this. To believe in imaginary friends is to be insane or stuck in childhood. Even in childhood the imaginary friend is a proxy for self.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….It is never to late for athiests,however the last seat has been taken,and the 144K have been spoken for,while we are waiting for the next bus we should review some of the finer points of athiesism,with particular attention to its contributions to the betterment of man…You have made yourself abundantly clear as to your feelings with respect to christianity…induldge me and in the process you might be able to show me the error of my ways…
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 11 2008,23:39) Greetings Stu….It is never to late for athiests,however the last seat has been taken,and the 144K have been spoken for,while we are waiting for the next bus we should review some of the finer points of athiesism,with particular attention to its contributions to the betterment of man…You have made yourself abundantly clear as to your feelings with respect to christianity…induldge me and in the process you might be able to show me the error of my ways…
Hi TheodorejThe Enlightenment was essentially an anti-christian affair. By peeling back those brutal doctrines, all perfectly founded as they were on someone or other's interpretation of scripture, humankind has made huge advances. Some of them have had negative consequences, but overwhelmingly this is the best age to have lived in so far because you can be easily cured of previously common and lethal diseases, you can communicate globally, you are no longer compelled to attend church or pray, you no longer have to be satisfied with the ignorance of creationism…
This enlightenment process is exactly the same change that islam needs urgently. We have not done the experiment of re-running the last 300 years without the Enlightenment in the west and so we can't be sure, but look to islam for an alternative history of that time under a religious system that shares the same roots as christianity. Islam has already had its golden age, too! Look how far the mighty can fall when they start to believe literally the contents of their infallible book. I could go on and on, believe me, but I won't!
On the question of ethics, I leave you with the words of Steven Weinberg: “Good people do good and evil people do evil but to make a good person do evil requires religion”.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 11 2008,20:42) Are you ressurrected t8? Is this how you have such great knowledge of conversion in the hereafter? Of course it is too late for atheists then, especially those who have rejected Jesus as I do, so how do you justify that theologically? Not that I have any repect for theology. I wish I could have nothing to do with god but the history of social legislation and restrictions on medical research and practice in NZ, as elsewhere, has been persistently dragged backwards towards medieval attitudes by the reactionary righteous in the name of their god, causing misery often only to those who do not share the christian delusion. If the christian argument was that homosexuals should be persecuted because it brings these greater benefits for everyone as shown by the evidence then that would be something, but we both know it is not half as sophisticated as that. The JWs and LDS knock on the door; the religious hijack public occasions like ANZAC day dawn parades; the zealots insist on prayers to start parliamentary sessions but never question what god was doing when the legislation went against them…
I would love to escape god. Maybe it will, in this secular egalitarian democratic society, eventually be possible. Less that 50% of NZers identify as christian. Maybe we are freeing ourselves of it.
My only hope for eternal justice is that god will cast a savage judgement on all those who bothered him, caused others to bother him or bothered other people unnecessarily in his name, instead of trusting the faculties god gave them to live good lives on their own account, an act of which we are all capable. Of course I don't really think any of this. To believe in imaginary friends is to be insane or stuck in childhood. Even in childhood the imaginary friend is a proxy for self.
Stuart
He he.Hey just a thought. Have you considered the possibility that you might evolve into a Christian? After all you do spend quite a bit of time here in this Christian ecosystem. Better be careful aye! Your brain might be slowly adjusting to better survive the environment.
Hey stu-
{one final clarification and then I'll stop the dialogue with you b/c we get nowhere}
The “hatred” that I referred to was the contempt that you had for the Creator of the universe. If you had no emotion toward something that you viewed as a false illusion, you would not speak the way you do and you certainly wouldn't care enough to waste your time on us idiots.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 12 2008,10:02) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 11 2008,20:42) Are you ressurrected t8? Is this how you have such great knowledge of conversion in the hereafter? Of course it is too late for atheists then, especially those who have rejected Jesus as I do, so how do you justify that theologically? Not that I have any repect for theology. I wish I could have nothing to do with god but the history of social legislation and restrictions on medical research and practice in NZ, as elsewhere, has been persistently dragged backwards towards medieval attitudes by the reactionary righteous in the name of their god, causing misery often only to those who do not share the christian delusion. If the christian argument was that homosexuals should be persecuted because it brings these greater benefits for everyone as shown by the evidence then that would be something, but we both know it is not half as sophisticated as that. The JWs and LDS knock on the door; the religious hijack public occasions like ANZAC day dawn parades; the zealots insist on prayers to start parliamentary sessions but never question what god was doing when the legislation went against them…
I would love to escape god. Maybe it will, in this secular egalitarian democratic society, eventually be possible. Less that 50% of NZers identify as christian. Maybe we are freeing ourselves of it.
My only hope for eternal justice is that god will cast a savage judgement on all those who bothered him, caused others to bother him or bothered other people unnecessarily in his name, instead of trusting the faculties god gave them to live good lives on their own account, an act of which we are all capable. Of course I don't really think any of this. To believe in imaginary friends is to be insane or stuck in childhood. Even in childhood the imaginary friend is a proxy for self.
Stuart
He he.Hey just a thought. Have you considered the possibility that you might evolve into a Christian? After all you do spend quite a bit of time here in this Christian ecosystem. Better be careful aye! Your brain might be slowly adjusting to better survive the environment.
Thanks for the warning. Wouldn't want you to have to retract your quoting of the 'fool' verses!Stuart
Quote (Shania @ Aug. 12 2008,16:46) Hey stu- {one final clarification and then I'll stop the dialogue with you b/c we get nowhere}
The “hatred” that I referred to was the contempt that you had for the Creator of the universe. If you had no emotion toward something that you viewed as a false illusion, you would not speak the way you do and you certainly wouldn't care enough to waste your time on us idiots.
Hi ShaniaHow do you know the degree of passion I might spend on particular subjects? God does not exist but that does not mean that there are no consequences of humans believing in that invention. This imaginary being you are so besotted with has never been seen, tasted, heard, touched or smelled yet you would quite happily tell people what its wishes are.
I have never called anyone here an idiot, that is your word not mine. It is a shame you think we get 'nowhere' – we have barely started! Is your concern that your god is unable to defend himself without your assistance?
Stuart
Zeal without humanity is like a ship without a rudder, liable to be stranded at any moment.
– Owen FelthamTo most men experience is like the stern lights of a ship, which illuminate only the track it has passed.
-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
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