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Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 07 2008,09:23) Sam, Not sure why you are continuing to post with Stu and other's who upset you? This thread is even about your decision to leave this site because of Stu and other's…….
If they upset you, may I encourage you to leave the fight with them and move on to discussing things that will build up your faith and not tear it down? There are many topics to choose from.
Love,
Mandy
Consider this: if your faith is not tested, then it will not sustain once it is assailed from another source. If one can counter arguments against their beliefs with sound, logical concepts then all of faith who read benefit. However, if all you do is stick your hands over your eyes and cotton in your ears and sing “Jesus loves me, this I know” then you are only avoiding the examination of why you have faith in the first place.What you are in essence doing is a 21st century version of killing the pagans. The reason that the Israelites were to kill others was that they worshiped different gods. Obviously, the priests could not control the people if they believed in other gods, so the best way to handle this was to slay the infidels. Read Deu 13 for your specific instructions.
But we are a kinder and gentler society now. Most of us don't kill the infidels anymore (too many laws), so now we either avoid them or try to influence our governments to silence them via various laws restricting their freedoms to express themselves.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2008,22:17) Even Jesus was not perfect. This was inserted into his life long after he supposedly lived because it was necessary for him to be “spotless”. The Gospel of Mark, the first one written, does not portray a “perfect” Jesus.
Can I have your scripturally-based definition for “perfect” Kejonn?, and a citation of passage in Mark where Yeshua is shown to contravene it?Hi Samuel-
Your words have always encouraged me. With all of your posts, I can tell that all you want is Him- no matter if it goes against tradition or your concepts or what it costs you. This is the heart that our Father looks for. The one who is humble, contrite, and trembles at His word.
People will always fight you. The enemy sees that heart of yours and discouragement is what he can use to stop you, so he tries it. When people act the way that they do and say what they say, they are not attacking you- they are attacking Him because they hate His ways and they hate Him. This is very sad, because if they do not repent, they will be destroyed in their hatred.
Do you know what Paul's response to these people was? He shook the dust off his feet and moved on. People hated Messiah. People will hate you because you are of Messish. You are to share in His sufferings in order to share in His esteem. Let this suffering do its work in you and turn to your Father and ask Him what to do. If He tells you to leave, then leave. I know that you have a prayer life and are able to do this. Above anything, let your relationship with Him be your safe place. He is the one to run to in times like these. You see, the enemies goal is to separate us from Him. If his tricks cause you to run to Him, the plan is foiled.
peace and love,
Shania
Hi Shania
Quote This is the heart that our Father looks for. The one who is humble, contrite, and trembles at His word.
I suppose it is easier for 'Him' to run a brutal dictatorship if the people are meek and don't question the indiscriminate smiting.Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 08 2008,03:02) However, if all you do is stick your hands over your eyes and cotton in your ears and sing “Jesus loves me, this I know” then you are only avoiding the examination of why you have faith in the first place.
LOL, ironically enough there have been many times that I have done just this, Kevin (“..hands over my eyes and sing “Jesus loves me”…). And guess what happens….peace like a river fills my soul. From head to toe there is an anointing of God's holy Spirit and I know that I am his.We are not told that we have to examine our faith at the hands of the critical, we are only told to put on our armour and when we have done all there is to do…..we stand.
We are told that it is impossible to please God without faith. We are not told that it is impossible to please God without examinating our faith. Faith in and of itself does not give way to examination………..you believe what you cannot see, remember?
Take care, Kevin.
MandyQuote (Stu @ Aug. 09 2008,17:13) Hi Shania Quote This is the heart that our Father looks for. The one who is humble, contrite, and trembles at His word.
I suppose it is easier for 'Him' to run a brutal dictatorship if the people are meek and don't question the indiscriminate smiting.Stuart
oh the suffering.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Aug. 08 2008,17:39) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2008,22:17) Even Jesus was not perfect. This was inserted into his life long after he supposedly lived because it was necessary for him to be “spotless”. The Gospel of Mark, the first one written, does not portray a “perfect” Jesus.
Can I have your scripturally-based definition for “perfect” Kejonn?, and a citation of passage in Mark where Yeshua is shown to contravene it?
They give definitions in the bible? And here I thought it was just a set of religious writings. Anywho…Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Mar 1:5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mar 1:6 Now John was clothed with camel's hair and wore a leather belt around his waist and ate locusts and wild honey.
Mar 1:7 And he preached, saying, “After me comes he who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie.
Mar 1:8 I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Mar 1:9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
Mar 1:11 And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”Now before you run off to the other gospels for “clarification”, recall that Mark was the first gospel written. Whoever wrote it had no reason whatsoever to convey a sinless Jesus. Those who based their works off of GMark (the writers of GMatthew and GLuke) were reflecting the evolving view of Jesus that was being developed among the various fledgling churches of the 1st century.
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.
As much as apologetic writers want to spin this verse, it is quite plain the GMark did not see Jesus as a sinless person, and thus not perfect. But is Jesus was not perfect then he was not a spotless sacrifice, and Christianity is based on a lie. So writers after Jesus — those who likely net even met the historical figure — said he was without sin with no justification.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,02:59) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 08 2008,03:02) However, if all you do is stick your hands over your eyes and cotton in your ears and sing “Jesus loves me, this I know” then you are only avoiding the examination of why you have faith in the first place.
LOL, ironically enough there have been many times that I have done just this, Kevin (“..hands over my eyes and sing “Jesus loves me”…). And guess what happens….peace like a river fills my soul. From head to toe there is an anointing of God's holy Spirit and I know that I am his.Not to downplay this, but have you ever heard that music calms the savage beast? People achieve “peace” through various means, music being one of them, and it doesn't even have to be about Jesus.
But you know exactly what I'm talking about, don't you? I'm speaking of people sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the valid questions leveled at the bible and the lack of evidence for God. It is indeed based on faith because there is nothing but faith left.
Quote We are not told that we have to examine our faith at the hands of the critical, we are only told to put on our armour and when we have done all there is to do…..we stand. If you only do as you are told in the bible, how do you know God's will for your every day life. Not every answer to every circumstance is contained therein.
Yet, if you put on your armor and stand while ignoring the bleeding gashes in your body, eventually you fall.
Quote We are told that it is impossible to please God without faith. Have you ever stopped to think about that? It is a controlling phrase, given out to those who have doubt about something for which there is no evidence.
Tell me, why is it that God and then Jesus were so active in the days of the bible and now not at all? Oh, you may say they are active, but how? If you point to what Christians are doing, then you overlook that humans are doing the work and God is getting the credit. Its like cheering the coach after a winning game while ignoring the players.
Quote We are not told that it is impossible to please God without examinating our faith. “Blind faith” then.
Quote Faith in and of itself does not give way to examination………..you believe what you cannot see, remember? Take care, Kevin.
Mandy
Thomas couldn't and Jesus was willing to show him. Why should we not be given the same treatment? Instead we are told we must believe in a book full of unbelievable events.Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,09:13) Hi Shania Quote This is the heart that our Father looks for. The one who is humble, contrite, and trembles at His word.
I suppose it is easier for 'Him' to run a brutal dictatorship if the people are meek and don't question the indiscriminate smiting.Stuart
2 Sam 22:26-3026 “To the faithful you show yourself faithful,
to the blameless you show yourself blameless,
27 to the pure you show yourself pure,
but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd.
28 You save the humble,
but your eyes are on the haughty to bring them low.
29 You are my lamp, O LORD;
the LORD turns my darkness into light.
30 With your help I can advance against a troop;
with my God I can scale a wall.
NIVTitus 1:14-2:1
15 To the pure , all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.NIV
I do try to be humble, I do try to be contrite, and above all else I do tremble before GOD and his word.
Because, I feel that my actions are rebellious and disobedient at times.
For this reason I fear that I may not stand spotless at the day of the lord.
Sometimes, I do things or say things …under the control of my emotions that afterwards…I wonder why I did. It was totally ungodly of me.
If you were to see me in real life you would probably say the same things of me.
Sometimes its almost like I don't even have control of my own self.
I keep trying to think that I can do it myself…but it is not me that does anything good…It is through Jesus Christ that GOD is able to do anything good that does come forth from me.
Because, I can assure you all that if it were just me nothing good at all would come forth from me. This I know.
I need praying for just as much as the next guy does. I may not be a Drug addict or a murderer, or some evil thing of the sort.
But My temper and my tongue get me in to the most trouble.
I really try not to seek answers from men, as I feel that man does not have all the answers. Men are good for fellowship, and I do believe that some ministers have indeed received the word of GOD when they teach and preach.
I feel that I'm just as bad as a dog or a viper as it was so put in the Bible. I pray that through Jesus Christ that GOD will see fit to continue to have mercy on my wretched self.
People say that my words have inspired them or comforted them, and people that know me in real life, such as my family think that I have a gift of dreams and interpretation. And, some have said that I have discernment of spirits.
I really appreciate all those comments but I must pass all that glory to GOD. Because I myself am nothing. If it is indeed so that I have done any of these things…it is actually GOD that has done them through me. I'm just a man on the same log ride as all of you.
I personally feel that I am not an interpretor of dreams…and that my discernment of spirits is the Holy Spirit of GOD trying to warn me of things that I do not fully understand yet.
I do not wish to take any credit for myself, any credit that if offered to me goes to GOD.
I'd like to chat on here but, I'm not sure…I am still praying about it. It does help for me to be able to chat with fellow believers about certain things.
Maybe GOD has put me here for a reason, I am still unsure as of yet about that. I have learned a lot on here. And, have had several things revealed to me since being here.
But it pains me dearly to know that some on here just flat out refuse to see the light in any way that it is presented to them.
I honestly feel that they truly do not know what the do.With me it is different…I know what I am doing…and deserve what I get. Just me saying these words brings some scripture to mind:
Quote
Luke 23
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
I mean its obvious that they do not fear GOD, and thus are mocking him. This brings a few more scriptures to mind:
Quote
Hebrews 10:31
[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.Matthew 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Some translations of Matthew 4:7 say it a little different…that you should not bring the Lord thy GOD to test.
But, they know not what they do.
Quote
Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.Quote (Shania @ Aug. 10 2008,03:36) Stuart- I don't expect you to understand.
It is a shame you have such a low expectation of me. How can I ever join your club and get my customer loyalty 'Heavenclub' card if you have such an elite attitude?Stuart
Hi Samuel
It is true that I mock the Judeo-christian god, because I believe strongly that it is a figment of the imagination, but let's put that to one side.
Quote I feel that I'm just as bad as a dog or a viper as it was so put in the Bible. I pray that through Jesus Christ that GOD will see fit to continue to have mercy on my wretched self.
Is it really your god against whose standards you judge yourself? I think you are letting Paul and John judge you. They were zealots and had you been alive in their times they would not have had your well-being as their first priority. I will not be able to convince you because I have been rude to you, but perhaps if you read kejonn or Not3 they might show you that there is a difference between what their gods tell them and what people tell them (via scripture) that god wants for them.Quote People say that my words have inspired them or comforted them, and people that know me in real life, such as my family think that I have a gift of dreams and interpretation. And, some have said that I have discernment of spirits.
You have skills and much to offer others. How can you get around the whole trap that the men who wrote and arbitrarily cannonised scripture laid for your sense of self-worth? If there is any dusting off of shoes to be done, I rather think atheists and even satan-worshippers are the least of your issues. The testament-writing vampires you have invited into your tent are the things to watch out for! If it helps you to believe in a figment then I think it is very important that you trust your 'god-given' conscience. If it was a gift from god, should it not be trusted? You knew the difference between right and wrong long before you were told about christianity.Stuart
It was not meant like that I do not think.
It simply means that you do not understand, which you don't.
However, you could understand…I feel that you have the ability to if you would let Love in and Unlock your heart for GOD.
He will not come in Stu unless you let him.
If your waiting on GOD to “Barge” into your heart and soul and just take up residence …its not going to happen like that.
Now…
You just may well get an experience like Saul got if that is, what it takes. Or not…GOD works with each sometimes in a different fashion…However you will know that it is him nonetheless.
GOD just might show up and ask you why you are persecuting him.
Quote (Samuel @ Aug. 10 2008,12:33) It was not meant like that I do not think.
I was just being rude again. But then I think Shania was rude as well! That's not really an excuse, just an observation!Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,12:13) Quote (Shania @ Aug. 10 2008,03:36) Stuart- I don't expect you to understand.
It is a shame you have such a low expectation of me. How can I ever join your club and get my customer loyalty 'Heavenclub' card if you have such an elite attitude?Stuart
The Heavennet club card is only $200 per month, but for you $199 exc GST.Quote (t8 @ Aug. 10 2008,12:37) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 10 2008,12:13) Quote (Shania @ Aug. 10 2008,03:36) Stuart- I don't expect you to understand.
It is a shame you have such a low expectation of me. How can I ever join your club and get my customer loyalty 'Heavenclub' card if you have such an elite attitude?Stuart
The Heavennet club card is only $200 per month, but for you $199 exc GST.
I want a Heavenclub card. Then I can sell it on Trademe when the 144,000-seater bus is near-full!Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 11 2008,04:36) Quote (Samuel @ Aug. 10 2008,12:33) It was not meant like that I do not think.
I was just being rude again. But then I think Shania was rude as well! That's not really an excuse, just an observation!Stuart
I am not trying to be rude…. that comment was in reference to the verses that I posted above that. The fact is that you have so much hatred in your heart that you cannot understand the love of our Father, and savior. Your vision is completely thwarted with bitterness and anger toward the things of God. I don't expect you to understand something that is so completely foreign to you. We speak a different language…. that's just how it is.Like Sam said, you could understand. But you have to want to. That would take giving up control and losing your life, which is a decision that you refuse to make.
I would love for you to “join the club”
Quote (Shania @ Aug. 10 2008,17:27) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 11 2008,04:36) Quote (Samuel @ Aug. 10 2008,12:33) It was not meant like that I do not think.
I was just being rude again. But then I think Shania was rude as well! That's not really an excuse, just an observation!Stuart
I am not trying to be rude…. that comment was in reference to the verses that I posted above that. The fact is that you have so much hatred in your heart that you cannot understand the love of our Father, and savior. Your vision is completely thwarted with bitterness and anger toward the things of God. I don't expect you to understand something that is so completely foreign to you. We speak a different language…. that's just how it is.Like Sam said, you could understand. But you have to want to. That would take giving up control and losing your life, which is a decision that you refuse to make.
I would love for you to “join the club”
Hi ShaniaDo we know eachother? What is the basis for your judgement of me that I have “so much hatred in {my} heart that {I} cannot understand…”? Have you not considered the possibility that because I don't believe a word of the Judeo-christian mythology and its imaginary dictator in the sky that that I might have no hatred 'in my heart' at all? You believe in a book that compels you to stone people and insists that you call atheists 'fool', and you tell me that I have hatred!
You seem to be claiming some special abilities here. Tell me one thing that you know because you are a christian that I cannot possibly know because I am not.
Stuart
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