- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,12:15) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,16:22) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,09:04) Proof?
Just as I told you when you said David should have never been King, why don't you tell God that Jesus committed sin and that He should have never been raised from the dead, and maybe He will undo everything He did because you said so.I have the all the proof that I need.
I can only go by the bible. If the Torah says some foods are unclean, then Jesus saying they are clean goes against the Torah. That tells me that either the Torah is wrong or Jesus is wrong. If Jesus is wrong, he has sinned. If the Torah is wrong, then the bible is suspect, and that also puts Yahweh (and Jesus) in doubt.As to David, the Torah says no Moabite can be part of Israel. hat would certainly include the king of Israel! So, either the Torah is wrong, or whoever wrote about David is wrong. Again, this puts Yahweh in doubt.
You say “tell God” but I can't. God does not communicate with people anymore no matter what you claim. At least not like he did in the days the bible was recorded. Thus, all I have left is “God's people”. Guess what? They have no answers either. You are a perfect example of that.
No Comment!!!Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,13:14) Then whay bother to type “No Comment!!!”?
So that you will know that I have heard what you have said.Quote Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
hn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnationKevin,
I feel for your situation here. I'm with you in questioning “Why?”. I see that you have some good questions or observations regarding the conflicts between what the OT teaches and what the NT teaches. Some things cannot be explained away – there are obvious problems!
I have come to view the bible a little differently. I believe that you can come to know God and Jesus through the bible, but the bible itself cannot be trusted to give you the full revelation of who they are. It's been tampered and messed with too much.
Therefore, in my mind, some of the conflicts that you have found can be explained by just realizing too much time has passed since they were jotted down. Who knows what the originals really said? We'll never know.
This evening while I was out walking (beautiful night), I realized that I hadn't “heard” from God in awhile………it got me to wondering why? I wondered if I only heard from him when I wanted to OR if I concocted up the conversation myself? I mean, I have “experiences” with God and Jesus to draw on, but nothing has “happened” recently. My point is, when I'm not putting into the relationship (worship, prayer, witnessing) I don't really “hear” from God. I'm wondering if it's just been me all this time?
The bible says that we will do greater things than Jesus….
The bible says that if we ask anything in his name, God will do it…..
The bible says a lot of things that don't happen….I wonder why? I especially wonder why I don't hear from God by his initiative and not mine? Maybe I'm one of the weak ones or the one that is always studying but never learns….. Maybe I'm predestined to be one of the wicked ones that falls away? Maybe God already knows that I'll give up on my faith and doesn't bother with me……
Sigh,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 07 2008,16:12) Kevin, I feel for your situation here. I'm with you in questioning “Why?”. I see that you have some good questions or observations regarding the conflicts between what the OT teaches and what the NT teaches. Some things cannot be explained away – there are obvious problems!
I have come to view the bible a little differently. I believe that you can come to know God and Jesus through the bible, but the bible itself cannot be trusted to give you the full revelation of who they are. It's been tampered and messed with too much.
Therefore, in my mind, some of the conflicts that you have found can be explained by just realizing too much time has passed since they were jotted down. Who knows what the originals really said? We'll never know.
This evening while I was out walking (beautiful night), I realized that I hadn't “heard” from God in awhile………it got me to wondering why? I wondered if I only heard from him when I wanted to OR if I concocted up the conversation myself? I mean, I have “experiences” with God and Jesus to draw on, but nothing has “happened” recently. My point is, when I'm not putting into the relationship (worship, prayer, witnessing) I don't really “hear” from God. I'm wondering if it's just been me all this time?
The bible says that we will do greater things than Jesus….
The bible says that if we ask anything in his name, God will do it…..
The bible says a lot of things that don't happen….I wonder why? I especially wonder why I don't hear from God by his initiative and not mine? Maybe I'm one of the weak ones or the one that is always studying but never learns….. Maybe I'm predestined to be one of the wicked ones that falls away? Maybe God already knows that I'll give up on my faith and doesn't bother with me……
Sigh,
Mandy
Mandy! Please Sister do not doubt so much. We are saved
through faith in Jeus Christ, a free Gift frome God. One day we will all know the truth, Jesus will teach us in the Millinium, when the truth will cover the earth like water covers the sea.
As far as hearing from God, I do understand that. I feel like that too. I do lack going to God in prayers. I admit that. But when I do, I feel the love that He has for me. I think that I would not be able to handle all of His Love at one time. When I get so high, I fall too. So IMO God see's that and keeps me at bay.
Just wanted to share that with you and I hope it helps.
Peace and Love IreneThanks, Irene.
Ironically it's the bible that makes me doubt more than anything. Maybe I study TOO much?
Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,01:34) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 05 2008,23:23) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 05 2008,21:53) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 31 2008,22:33) Quote You'll never prove Yeshua was a sinner from the Bible texts Kejonn. It's foolish to even try. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.
The evidence that Jesus existed is not overhelming. How do you know so much about the details of what he did?Stuart
Greetings Stu …..Sometimes evidence does't have to be overwelming,however, it does have to be conclusive…The existance of Jesus is represented historically and acknowledged by many learned people,who I might add are not all christians,and some are athiests…Many people wrote of the life of Jesus,not only the authors of the Gospels(eg.the Bible )….It is from these multiple writings that the Bible was assembled….The difference between the many writings and the Bible is the inspiration of the creator on those who penned his word….This inspiration is evident in the consistancy of the message….Is it overwelming ? No! but it is conclusive…..
The evidence that Jesus existed is thin but the evidence that he was not a sinner is overwhelming. What is conclusive is that christians use fantasyland logic. This is only one piece of the overwhelming evidence for that.Stuart
Greetings Stu….Now you have my attention….The evidence that Jesus was a sinner has eluded me for years…Now at last in light of the information you are about to devulge I will be able to bring closure to the many open questions I have had on this topic….Please share with me what you know to be the conclusive facts….(conclusive facts being….The Truth )
The notoriety humans have for seeing things that aren't there; our inability to realise actual probabilites and coincidences; our infant-like capacity to believe others who tell a convicing story, even though they have not questioned the version they were told; evolution (most likely by natural selection); the overwhelming need for a few zealots to make their mythology the truth, using the reverse psychology of making it so absurd that it forces a make or break decision in the potential believer. Those are facts. They are so well supported with evidence it would be perverse to deny it. I don't understand your statement, but I am happy to share more such facts!Stuart
Hi 90210
Quote God has given you a “free will”
Says who, and so what?! Free will is an ignorant doctrine. The intricacies of human motivation are dispensed with in favour of a dumb soundbite.Quote and so if your goal is to be separated from Him you will certainly accomplish your goal.
Hooray!Quote I for one am not trying to run your life. I have just answered your questions. This is a Christian web-site. If you are happy with what you believe, why do you keep asking questions about what I believe?
I suppose because I find it difficult to rationalise how a grown human can be so in thrall of a fantasy world. I suppose I do understand many of the reasons for it, still your brain is particularly interestingly clouded. I am glad to see you object to christian politicians using their bibles to come to decisions that do not reflect the democratic will.Quote Like I said, I am not in darkness groping around trying to find out whether of not God exists. I know that He does, and you will certainly find this out one way or the other.
The moment you say you know something for certain is pretty much the moment you die intellectually. I think that happened to you some time ago, to be brutally honest.Quote Have a good day.
You too.Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 07 2008,16:12) Kevin, I feel for your situation here. I'm with you in questioning “Why?”. I see that you have some good questions or observations regarding the conflicts between what the OT teaches and what the NT teaches. Some things cannot be explained away – there are obvious problems!
I have come to view the bible a little differently. I believe that you can come to know God and Jesus through the bible, but the bible itself cannot be trusted to give you the full revelation of who they are. It's been tampered and messed with too much.
Therefore, in my mind, some of the conflicts that you have found can be explained by just realizing too much time has passed since they were jotted down. Who knows what the originals really said? We'll never know.
This evening while I was out walking (beautiful night), I realized that I hadn't “heard” from God in awhile………it got me to wondering why? I wondered if I only heard from him when I wanted to OR if I concocted up the conversation myself? I mean, I have “experiences” with God and Jesus to draw on, but nothing has “happened” recently. My point is, when I'm not putting into the relationship (worship, prayer, witnessing) I don't really “hear” from God. I'm wondering if it's just been me all this time?
The bible says that we will do greater things than Jesus….
The bible says that if we ask anything in his name, God will do it…..
The bible says a lot of things that don't happen….I wonder why? I especially wonder why I don't hear from God by his initiative and not mine? Maybe I'm one of the weak ones or the one that is always studying but never learns….. Maybe I'm predestined to be one of the wicked ones that falls away? Maybe God already knows that I'll give up on my faith and doesn't bother with me……
Sigh,
Mandy
You are one of the strong ones. You still use your brain. If that is wrong, why would a god give a human a brain capable of doubting? To test you? Does this god play sick games?Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 06 2008,23:12) Kevin, I feel for your situation here. I'm with you in questioning “Why?”. I see that you have some good questions or observations regarding the conflicts between what the OT teaches and what the NT teaches. Some things cannot be explained away – there are obvious problems!
The Gathas of Zarathushtra are unlike the bible in so many ways. The Gathas tell us that God wants us to question and to seek. He gave us “vohu manah” which means 'good mind” or “good thinking”.
From what I understand, Hinduism is very similar in this approach. Hinduism encourages free thought and seeking. That includes being open to scientific discoveries. I know less about Hinduism, but I can tell you that the Gathas does not call for blind faith which asks no questions.
I can understand this much more than I can Christianity. I cannot understand why God would give us higher thought and reason and then have us not use it.
Quote I have come to view the bible a little differently. I believe that you can come to know God and Jesus through the bible, but the bible itself cannot be trusted to give you the full revelation of who they are. It's been tampered and messed with too much. I have no issue with this. Some people can do this, and some cannot. I am one who cannot. I am of the opinion that if part of it can be seen as untrue, all of it is in doubt because we have no way of knowing the true parts 2000 years after it was written.
Quote Therefore, in my mind, some of the conflicts that you have found can be explained by just realizing too much time has passed since they were jotted down. Who knows what the originals really said? We'll never know. This evening while I was out walking (beautiful night), I realized that I hadn't “heard” from God in awhile………it got me to wondering why? I wondered if I only heard from him when I wanted to OR if I concocted up the conversation myself? I mean, I have “experiences” with God and Jesus to draw on, but nothing has “happened” recently. My point is, when I'm not putting into the relationship (worship, prayer, witnessing) I don't really “hear” from God. I'm wondering if it's just been me all this time?
Obviously, someone like Stu would say it was you. I would not be so bold because I cannot put myself in someone else's place and say what they have experienced is real or not. I can only vouch for my own experiences.
I have been visiting the boards at beliefnet lately. You will find people from all religions (and none at all) on that site. There are still people who believe in Greek, Norse, Egyptian, etc. gods on there. Many of them will tell you they have encountered their god(s). Can you say they haven't and in the same breath claim that only Yahweh and Jesus are real?
What does this passage mean anyway?
1Co 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.After reading posts from these various “pagans”, I see something more than I originally was led to believe about the above passage. The key is the phrase “yet for us there is but one God”. That is, to those who have been led to trust in the Christian god, there is but one god. All others are not gods to them.
To the pagans, their gods are the ones they commune with. They do not commune with Yahweh. Some even claim to have encountered the Christian god and have said he seems to be cold and indifferent to them, as if he knows they have chosen their own gods and does not care to reach out to them. Is this belief backed up in this passage?
Joh 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
So, for those who hold some sort of theistic belief, belief in different gods cannot be said to be any more or less valid than belief in Yahweh and Jesus. Nobody has any proof that any god exists, nor do they have proof that any religious text is correct. It all boils down to personal belief.
Quote The bible says that we will do greater things than Jesus….
The bible says that if we ask anything in his name, God will do it…..
The bible says a lot of things that don't happen….I truly do not believe the writers of the bible were forward thinking. They likely never thought their words would still be read 2000 years later. They were writing to those who were in their own time. But like anything else pertain to religion, I have no proof of this, just opinion.
In the days of youtube and 24 hour news, the promises and events made in the bible start to look silly. The god of the bible appears to be very camera shy. Miracles of biblical proportion are strangely absent and all we are left with for proof of the Christian god are images burned into toast.
Makes you wonder why some say the feats of Greek mythology never happened but will say that the similarly unbelievable feats of the bible did happen.
Quote I wonder why? I especially wonder why I don't hear from God by his initiative and not mine? Maybe I'm one of the weak ones or the one that is always studying but never learns….. Maybe I'm predestined to be one of the wicked ones that falls away? Maybe God already knows that I'll give up on my faith and doesn't bother with me…… Sigh,
Mandy
Hmm, look back on what I just wrote about some pagans encounter with the Christian god. It seems, to them, that the Christian god becomes indifferent to you if you either believe in something else or if you doubt. After all, doesn't the NT often say you must have faith so often? Perhaps Yahweh and Jesus don't care for people if they are doubters. I have no idea.Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,06:51) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,12:48) God has given you a “free will” and so if your goal is to be separated from Him you will certainly accomplish your goal.
I have asked others this: how can you have free will if your god is omniscient? There are several passages in the bible that also deny free will.
Greetings KJ….We are not robots or programables….We are living,breathing beings who are gifted with inteligence and a spirit or essense or personality that makes us who we are,this principle applies to all….Gods' omnicients affords him the ability to be all places and know all things( after all,He Is God)it has nothing to do with the fact that we all have the option to know him,and serve him….Our free will affords the choice to obey or not to obey….Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,09:27) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,06:51) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,12:48) God has given you a “free will” and so if your goal is to be separated from Him you will certainly accomplish your goal.
I have asked others this: how can you have free will if your god is omniscient? There are several passages in the bible that also deny free will.
Greetings KJ….We are not robots or programables….We are living,breathing beings who are gifted with inteligence and a spirit or essense or personality that makes us who we are,this principle applies to all….Gods' omnicients affords him the ability to be all places and know all things( after all,He Is God)it has nothing to do with the fact that we all have the option to know him,and serve him….Our free will affords the choice to obey or not to obey….
TJ, does God know what actions you will take tomorrow?Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 08 2008,07:42) Kevin,
I joined beliefnet. My name there is BeeKeeper (“Mandy” was taken). It's a cool site, thanks.
Mandy! That IMO was not a good idea to do. I wish you lots of luck, hopefully you do not fall like Kejonn.
Peace and Love IreneQuote The Gathas tell us that God wants us to question and to seek. He gave us “vohu manah” which means 'good mind” or “good thinking”. He might have “given” it to us as you say, but if that is so, why is it that no one seems to know it exists.
My thinking is that God would be impartial and just and allow everyone the opportunity and chance to hear the “good news of the kingdom” that is now being preached throughout the earth. (Mat 24:14)If the Gathas did tell us what God wants….if God wanted us to learn about him through the Gathas, it's not working very well.
Quote http://www.beliefnet.com/index/index_10002.html There's an interesting video on that page about JW's and blood.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,03:17) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,09:27) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,06:51) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,12:48) God has given you a “free will” and so if your goal is to be separated from Him you will certainly accomplish your goal.
I have asked others this: how can you have free will if your god is omniscient? There are several passages in the bible that also deny free will.
Greetings KJ….We are not robots or programables….We are living,breathing beings who are gifted with inteligence and a spirit or essense or personality that makes us who we are,this principle applies to all….Gods' omnicients affords him the ability to be all places and know all things( after all,He Is God)it has nothing to do with the fact that we all have the option to know him,and serve him….Our free will affords the choice to obey or not to obey….
TJ, does God know what actions you will take tomorrow?
Greetings KJ……Yes he does !!, and as he also knows, I will be sinning….For this reason his forgiveness is readily available should I seek it …by being sorry and willing to exert the effort to change….Gods ever present Grace and love is available to all…All we need to do is seek him in an honest childlike frame of mind…Quote (david @ Sep. 07 2008,17:38) Quote The Gathas tell us that God wants us to question and to seek. He gave us “vohu manah” which means 'good mind” or “good thinking”. He might have “given” it to us as you say, but if that is so, why is it that no one seems to know it exists.
My thinking is that God would be impartial and just and allow everyone the opportunity and chance to hear the “good news of the kingdom” that is now being preached throughout the earth. (Mat 24:14)If the Gathas did tell us what God wants….if God wanted us to learn about him through the Gathas, it's not working very well.
Since 2/3 of the world does not believe in the Christian god, I could say the same. Pick your own path. I never said that the Gathas was the only way, I merely say it is a way I can relate to as someone who enjoys free thought, logic, and reason. Blind faith makes little sense to me.Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,18:45) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 08 2008,03:17) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 07 2008,09:27) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 07 2008,06:51) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 06 2008,12:48) God has given you a “free will” and so if your goal is to be separated from Him you will certainly accomplish your goal.
I have asked others this: how can you have free will if your god is omniscient? There are several passages in the bible that also deny free will.
Greetings KJ….We are not robots or programables….We are living,breathing beings who are gifted with inteligence and a spirit or essense or personality that makes us who we are,this principle applies to all….Gods' omnicients affords him the ability to be all places and know all things( after all,He Is God)it has nothing to do with the fact that we all have the option to know him,and serve him….Our free will affords the choice to obey or not to obey….
TJ, does God know what actions you will take tomorrow?
Greetings KJ……Yes he does !!, and as he also knows, I will be sinning….For this reason his forgiveness is readily available should I seek it …by being sorry and willing to exert the effort to change….Gods ever present Grace and love is available to all…All we need to do is seek him in an honest childlike frame of mind…
So, if God knows what you will do tomorrow, that path has already been determined. Thus, no free will.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
