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kejonn Denying Christ is a hard thing to do.
Hebrew 6:4 For it is impossible for those that were once enlihtened, and have tasted the
Heavenly gift and have become partaker of the Holy Spirit.
verse 5 and have tasted the good word of God and powers of this age to come
verse 6 If they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for
Themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene, are you going for the record number of user names on heavennet
?Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 04 2008,15:56) kejonn Denying Christ is a hard thing to do. At first it was. Now I don't think twice about it. When I was a kid I though Greek mythology was cool, but it didn't take long to realize it was indeed mythology. It took me 20 years to realize that the biblical Jesus was just another potential mythology.
Quote Hebrew 6:4 For it is impossible for those that were once enlihtened, and have tasted the Heavenly gift and have become partaker of the Holy Spirit.
verse 5 and have tasted the good word of God and powers of this age to come
verse 6 If they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for
Themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame.
Peace and Love Irene
I know those verses quite well. Whoever wrote them was employing fear tactics to reign in the doubtful. The basic theme is “If you believe in Jesus but later stop, you'll never be able to again. Then, well, its lake o' fire time!”. Sadly, it has worked wonders on millions who have doubted in the past. Only the strong can shed off a superstitious fear that not believing in the unbelievable is necessary for God's favor.
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 05 2008,08:56) kejonn Denying Christ is a hard thing to do. Hebrew 6:4 For it is impossible for those that were once enlihtened, and have tasted the
Heavenly gift and have become partaker of the Holy Spirit.
verse 5 and have tasted the good word of God and powers of this age to come
verse 6 If they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for
Themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame.
Peace and Love Irene
HI Irene,First and foremost, Heb 6:4-6 can not mean that you lose salvation
If it does then there is no place for the prodical son in the bible. The prodical son is all about God forgiving our falling away and accepting us back.
Jesus also said that we should forgive 70 X 7. Would he do less?There will be those who fall away or get side tracked as all of us do, but remember the promise of God, “that He who began the good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.” (Philippians 1:6)
For those who do fall down and get caught in sins they cannot lose their salvation and regain it again, for that would mean Jesus would then have to die again which contradicts the Scriptures entirely
Tim
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 05 2008,09:09) At first it was. Now I don't think twice about it. When I was a kid I though Greek mythology was cool, but it didn't take long to realize it was indeed mythology. It took me 20 years to realize that the biblical Jesus was just another potential mythology
In other words you must have not known him to begin with. If a video or book comes along showing supposed pagan origins of the bible and the foundation falls over, then that certainly speaks volumes.There is a difference in knowing him as opposed to knowing about him. If you know about him, then other teachings can affect your belief about him When you know him, or if you have seen the age to come, then no matter of mans doctrines, teachings, and imagination can shake the fact that God exists and his messiah is true.
It is quite clear that in the end, that deception would be so great that if it were possible, even the very elect could be deceived.
It is interesting how many fall away when theories arise against the truth that look logical. But this is only to determine the elect from those who use God as a type of life insurance, in case it is real. Isn't that what Constantine is suppose to have done? It is said that he was baptized on his death bed in case it was real.
But God is looking not for those who want an insurance policy, but those who love and worship him as their creator and who are willing to lay their lives down for the Kingdom that will never end.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 04 2008,23:28) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,03:54) So you persecute the messiah. What messiah? He may be the Christian messiah, but not the Jewish messiah.
Quote You are no different to lots of people. At least 2/3 of the world is like me, yes.
Quote If you are there for him he will be for you. If not, then he will not be there for you. Sorry, but I don't believe that a man who lived and died in the 1st century CE will be there for me
.Quote He is the saviour of mankind and it is up to you whether you persecute him, ignore him, or accept his ministry. According to the bible alone. What am I to do with the multitude of other religious texts that speak of different paths to heaven? What makes the bible any more valid than those texts? What if the “true” religion is none that we presently know?
Quote But can you crucify the son of God twice, or would you want to?
If you were there would you have saved him from the cross?
OK, you have made your point.You are not a believer. You now deny the faith. I think we all understand where you are coming from.
So what now for you?
Continue here and try and talk people out of their faith? Or carry on with life and invent it or create it as you see fit?
I think that if I was in your position, I wouldn't bother hanging out at a Christian forum if I didn't believe. I would rather spend my time on something that was going to benefit my life as I see it.
So why are you still here? What compels you to come here?
Could the following be happening, or is that too just a myth?
Luke 11:24-26
24 “When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first.”If the above is a myth, then what compels you to attack the scriptures and those who have faith?
Why not wish everyone the best and move on? Why do you have to have this negative and attacking attitude toward believers, if it is not a spirit that compels you?
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:49) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 05 2008,09:09) At first it was. Now I don't think twice about it. When I was a kid I though Greek mythology was cool, but it didn't take long to realize it was indeed mythology. It took me 20 years to realize that the biblical Jesus was just another potential mythology
In other words you must have not known him to begin with. If a video or book comes along showing supposed pagan origins of the bible and the foundation falls over, then that certainly speaks volumes.Nobody truly “knows” Jesus. They merely know the version they believe in, based upon either what they've heard or what they choose to interpret from the bible.
No video or book changed my mind more so than one set of books called the “Holy Bible”. As I studied the OT more, I realized I had been ignoring so much for so long. What started out as an attempt to clarify the possible pre-existence of Jesus ended up showing me that his existence was not as I had been led to believe. He was not the Jewish messiah. From there, the mythologies all started to fall down.
Quote There is a difference in knowing him as opposed to knowing about him. If you know about him, then other teachings can affect your belief about him When you know him, or if you have seen the age to come, then no matter of mans doctrines, teachings, and imagination can shake the fact that God exists and his messiah is true. I believe God exists, but I am agnostic at best as to the bible version of God. Furthermore, to believe Yahweh had a child with a human is so very like Zeus fathering Hercules. why is the second a myth while the first true? Neither is feasible.
Nobody truly knows Jesus. The historical Jesus lived and died almost 2000 years ago. What most believe about him is based on a hand selected set of texts that were chosen for the value they gave to a certain set of beliefs, not necessarily any reality. The Jesus you know is the Jesus that the early church wanted you to know, and even now people disagree about that Jesus.
Quote It is quite clear that in the end, that deception would be so great that if it were possible, even the very elect could be deceived. Who are the elect? Billy Graham? Benny Hinn? Creflo Dollar? T8? Nick?
Quote It is interesting how many fall away when theories arise against the truth that look logical. You have absolutely no basis in calling the bible the “truth”. None. All you have is belief.
Quote But this is only to determine the elect from those who use God as a type of life insurance, in case it is real. Isn't that what Constantine is suppose to have done? It is said that he was baptized on his death bed in case it was real. Again, who determines who is elect? Do you consider yourself amongst this elite group?
Quote But God is looking not for those who want an insurance policy, but those who love and worship him as their creator and who are willing to lay their lives down for the Kingdom that will never end.
Why would a perfect, all powerful being desire worship from weak, imperfect beings? Surely s/he is not that petty.Quote (Stu @ Aug. 31 2008,22:33) Quote You'll never prove Yeshua was a sinner from the Bible texts Kejonn. It's foolish to even try. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.
The evidence that Jesus existed is not overhelming. How do you know so much about the details of what he did?Stuart
Greetings Stu …..Sometimes evidence does't have to be overwelming,however, it does have to be conclusive…The existance of Jesus is represented historically and acknowledged by many learned people,who I might add are not all christians,and some are athiests…Many people wrote of the life of Jesus,not only the authors of the Gospels(eg.the Bible )….It is from these multiple writings that the Bible was assembled….The difference between the many writings and the Bible is the inspiration of the creator on those who penned his word….This inspiration is evident in the consistancy of the message….Is it overwelming ? No! but it is conclusive…..Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 05 2008,04:53) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 31 2008,22:33) Quote You'll never prove Yeshua was a sinner from the Bible texts Kejonn. It's foolish to even try. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.
The evidence that Jesus existed is not overhelming. How do you know so much about the details of what he did?Stuart
Greetings Stu …..Sometimes evidence does't have to be overwelming,however, it does have to be conclusive…The existance of Jesus is represented historically and acknowledged by many learned people,who I might add are not all christians,and some are athiests…Many people wrote of the life of Jesus,not only the authors of the Gospels(eg.the Bible )….It is from these multiple writings that the Bible was assembled….The difference between the many writings and the Bible is the inspiration of the creator on those who penned his word….This inspiration is evident in the consistancy of the message….Is it overwelming ? No! but it is conclusive…..
Consistency? Only when you force it. The Jesus of GJohn is not much like the Jesus of GMark. Why do the seem to be two different characters?Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 05 2008,21:53) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 31 2008,22:33) Quote You'll never prove Yeshua was a sinner from the Bible texts Kejonn. It's foolish to even try. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.
The evidence that Jesus existed is not overhelming. How do you know so much about the details of what he did?Stuart
Greetings Stu …..Sometimes evidence does't have to be overwelming,however, it does have to be conclusive…The existance of Jesus is represented historically and acknowledged by many learned people,who I might add are not all christians,and some are athiests…Many people wrote of the life of Jesus,not only the authors of the Gospels(eg.the Bible )….It is from these multiple writings that the Bible was assembled….The difference between the many writings and the Bible is the inspiration of the creator on those who penned his word….This inspiration is evident in the consistancy of the message….Is it overwelming ? No! but it is conclusive…..
The evidence that Jesus existed is thin but the evidence that he was not a sinner is overwhelming. What is conclusive is that christians use fantasyland logic. This is only one piece of the overwhelming evidence for that.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,19:03) OK, you have made your point. You are not a believer. You now deny the faith. I think we all understand where you are coming from.
“Believer” in what? Do you think the word is exclusive to Christians? Is “faith” also a Christian-only word? Thanks for taking them as your own.
But I thought this was determined long ago. I was given the “non-believers” status quite some time back.
Quote So what now for you? Life! Non dogmatic spirituality, unconstricted by narrow-minded views of the world and its people.
Quote Continue here and try and talk people out of their faith? If I can do that then their faith was not too strong to begin with.
Quote Or carry on with life and invent it or create it as you see fit? As opposed to what the writers of the bible did? They did that, why shouldn't I? You are just believing what they wrote, so you have taken the easier path.
Quote I think that if I was in your position, I wouldn't bother hanging out at a Christian forum if I didn't believe. I would rather spend my time on something that was going to benefit my life as I see it. Actually, of the forums I visit, this one is the last one on the list now.
Quote So why are you still here? What compels you to come here? I wish to see less bigotry in the world. I see Christianity, as commonly practiced by most, as a form of bigotry.
Quote Could the following be happening, or is that too just a myth? Luke 11:24-26
24 “When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first.”If the above is a myth, then what compels you to attack the scriptures and those who have faith?
Why not wish everyone the best and move on? Why do you have to have this negative and attacking attitude toward believers, if it is not a spirit that compels you?
Nice. See? You are bigoted. You supposed that I have an evil spirit because I reject Christianity as the only true faith. This is an attempt to dehumanize me in your eyes (and potentially others) so you can continue to look down on me and not feel any remorse for doing so.You, t8, are a reason I will continue to frequent this site.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 05 2008,23:31) You, t8, are a reason I will continue to frequent this site.
Is this the voice of a rebel?To kejonn.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 05 2008,14:50) Nobody truly “knows” Jesus. They merely know the version they believe in, based upon either what they've heard or what they choose to interpret from the bible. No video or book changed my mind more so than one set of books called the “Holy Bible”. As I studied the OT more, I realized I had been ignoring so much for so long. What started out as an attempt to clarify the possible pre-existence of Jesus ended up showing me that his existence was not as I had been led to believe. He was not the Jewish messiah. From there, the mythologies all started to fall down.
Nobody knows Jesus?That is not correct.
Some people really do know him and he answers many prayers to God as he mediates. Sounds like you have no real experience to speak of. Some people have even seen him, through NDE or vision. Others have seen the age to come.
You are deluded to say that they are all myth.
You say that no video changed your mind. But did any give you the thought, the seed of doubt?
Once doubt is sown, then reading the bible is an exercise of reading it with doubt.
Certainly your case has a lesson for all who have been watching. If you doubt God's messiah, then you digress to the Old Testament only, and then leave that and digress to persecuting those who believe. It is a steady downward spiral when you give up on the only name under heaven and earth whereby men can be saved.
I saw this so clearly in a friend of mine. He had a powerful relationship with God and was even given a great vision of the world to come. But this person thought that he was to young to commit his life to God even after these things, and decided to rebel only for a time and do whatever he wanted. So he turned his back on God with the plan to return later. He just wanted to do stuff that he knew was wrong, and thought to get those things out of his system.
The first thing he did was started to smoke marijuana and he even started to cultivate it and sell it. Next he started exploring other religions. Finally he gave up on all gods and yet when I asked him of his experience and vision with YHWH, he admitted that they were not fake, but could not give an explanation regarding them.
Finally he started to persecute believers especially others with whom he once had fellowship.
Around this time, he received a dream where he was walking down a familiar street, but the surrounding shops and buildings were all on fire. He thought to himself is this judgment day. He noticed something suspended in mid air and it turned out to be a ship wheel. So he decided to turn the wheel, but the wheel had a mind of its own and turned him instead. He then heard a voice say, “This is your ship of doom”.
A while later and with further warnings given to him, (even of his death) he started to do heavier drugs and one night his house was on fire. Thankfully his dog woke him up and he managed to escape. It even made the front page of the local paper because of an unusual phenomenon that fire produces sometimes, some kind of fire ball which I don't know anything about.
Sometime later he went to a beach barbecue on an open fire and a powerful wind came out of nowhere and the fire peeled of a layer of skin from his face. A year or so after that, he died in a house bus fire.
After his death I was feeling pretty down, and he came to me in a dream. Don't ask me to explain it. He spoke to me and told me how God had given him great gifts and how he wasted them and the life he was given, he looked very sad. Then he told me that whatever gifts I have, I shouldn't waste them and use them for God.
So what is the point of me telling you this.
Well a man who has faith and leaves it behind, then walks back into darkness is playing a dangerous game. In the darkness it is really hard to see the light that was once seen and belief departs. When the mind is in darkness, such feel compelled to persecute those who have faith even more than those who have never believed because the spirit that once dwelt brings more spirits so that the condition of the man is worse than before he believed. The compelling can be quite a powerful thing.
At this stage, a person is now doing the works of God's enemy of which Jesus came to destroy.
There truly is a battle for men's souls. Battles are not nice and they are not even fair. But to give up fighting for one side only leaves you the other. When you depart the narrow path, you are then on the wide path. On the wide path, there are many philosophies and there are many so-called truths. But that is a road to nowhere.
Life is the greatest gift that we all have, and I for one and never going to blow it away. At least I hope not. Life is so short anyway, why not make it a good life. It's not really even a sacrifice because being good has rewards now and into life everlasting.
I can see in you KJ the same spirit of persecution that took over my friend. The type that comes from a man who once had faith, but gave it up. The enemy is not slack and he now has license to work in those who deny Christ but once knew him. It is hard to resist his compelling if you don't have the Spirit of Truth to lead you.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,06:44) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 05 2008,23:31) You, t8, are a reason I will continue to frequent this site.
Is this the voice of a rebel?
In much the same way Gandhi was a rebel
.Oh please. Who is 'persecuting' whom? Is persecution that thing that is visited on he who has no answers to difficult questions? Some here highlight their inability to tell the difference between the man and the ball by playing the victim card.
Stuart
I am not playing the victim. I am simply helping KJ from being the victim.
His taunts or arguments have no bearing on my faith whatsoever, just as your don't.
In fact I think that your presence here is good because it gives an opportunity to show how futile it is to argue that there is no God for the benefit of others who read here, and as for KJ, he represents a sector of the human race too, by which we have the opportunity to answer questions that are valid for them.
I would be a victim here if I was down and you were putting the boot in so to speak, but I am on my feet and your paper darts are not hurting me in the slightest.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,06:45) To kejonn. Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 05 2008,14:50) Nobody truly “knows” Jesus. They merely know the version they believe in, based upon either what they've heard or what they choose to interpret from the bible. No video or book changed my mind more so than one set of books called the “Holy Bible”. As I studied the OT more, I realized I had been ignoring so much for so long. What started out as an attempt to clarify the possible pre-existence of Jesus ended up showing me that his existence was not as I had been led to believe. He was not the Jewish messiah. From there, the mythologies all started to fall down.
Nobody knows Jesus?That is not correct.
Has Jesus ever visited you personally and told you that the bible is indeed a correct history of his acts? Then you merely believe what was written of Jesus, and in particular, only those books chosen by those who formed the canon of the NT. Who is to say these books were the most accurate representation of the historical Jesus?
No, you don't truly know the real Jesus, just the Christian concept of a mythical figure of Jesus.
Quote Some people really do know him and he answers many prayers to God as he mediates. Sounds like you have no real experience to speak of. Some people have even seen him, through NDE or vision. Others have seen the age to come. Do you discount people of other religions who have similar visions that confirm their faith and not that of Christianity? What makes their experiences, their visions, any less valid than those who supposedly had visions to support the “reality” of Jesus?
Quote You are deluded to say that they are all myth. Can you prove me wrong? No. So who truly is deluded?
Quote You say that no video changed your mind. But did any give you the thought, the seed of doubt? Nope. I will admit that doubt likely started when I read about what Jews believe and saw the reasons why based on the bible.
Quote Once doubt is sown, then reading the bible is an exercise of reading it with doubt. So? Faith is useless when it is not based on reality. What you actually advocate is “blind faith”, or a faith that does not question no matter how illogical a faith like this is.
Quote Certainly your case has a lesson for all who have been watching. If you doubt God's messiah, then you digress to the Old Testament only, and then leave that and digress to persecuting those who believe. It is a steady downward spiral when you give up on the only name under heaven and earth whereby men can be saved. On noooos! Not the poor, pitiful persecution plea. Please, you wouldn't know persecution if it bit you on the nose. If you call what I do here as persecution, you need to get out of the house more.
I dislike it when Christians play the persecution card unnecessarily.
Is Jesus the only name by which to be saved? According to only one set of writings. Does that make it true? No, it makes it one view. So while you and millions of others believe it to be true, millions more do not. Neither view validates its truthfulness.
Quote I saw this so clearly in a friend of mine. He had a powerful relationship with God and was even given a great vision of the world to come. But this person thought that he was to young to commit his life to God even after these things, and decided to rebel only for a time and do whatever he wanted. So he turned his back on God with the plan to return later. He just wanted to do stuff that he knew was wrong, and thought to get those things out of his system. Too bad your friend is not like me. I am 41, and I have not decided to stop believing the bible is the only possible truth because I want to live my life as I see fit. My morals are basically the same as they were before this all happened.
Quote The first thing he did was started to smoke marijuana and he even started to cultivate it and sell it. Next he started exploring other religions. Finally he gave up on all gods and yet when I asked him of his experience and vision with YHWH, he admitted that they were not fake, but could not give an explanation regarding them. How does he know they were not “fake”? Visions are visions. People of all faiths or no faith at all have “visions” and dreams. Our minds are very complex.
Quote Finally he started to persecute believers especially others with whom he once had fellowship. In what way? Your so called view of persecution is very petty IMHO.
Quote Around this time, he received a dream where he was walking down a familiar street, but the surrounding shops and buildings were all on fire. He thought to himself is this judgment day. He noticed something suspended in mid air and it turned out to be a ship wheel. So he decided to turn the wheel, but the wheel had a mind of its own and turned him instead. He then heard a voice say, “This is your ship of doom”. A while later and with further warnings given to him, (even of his death) he started to do heavier drugs and one night his house was on fire. Thankfully his dog woke him up and he managed to escape. It even made the front page of the local paper because of an unusual phenomenon that fire produces sometimes, some kind of fire ball which I don't know anything about.
Sounds like his later visions were drug induced. So?
Quote Sometime later he went to a beach barbecue on an open fire and a powerful wind came out of nowhere and the fire peeled of a layer of skin from his face. A year or so after that, he died in a house bus fire
.After his death I was feeling pretty down, and he came to me in a dream. Don't ask me to explain it. He spoke to me and told me how God had given him great gifts and how he wasted them and the life he was given, he looked very sad. Then he told me that whatever gifts I have, I shouldn't waste them and use them for God.
People dream of lost loved ones all the time. Your beliefs will be part of your psyche, so it is quite natural that you would have dreams that would support them. People have all sorts of dreams that involve their own life situations. None of this validates the truthfulness of any religion, just that your beliefs make up part of your mentality.
Quote So what is the point of me telling you this. Well a man who has faith and leaves it behind, then walks back into darkness is playing a dangerous game. In the darkness it is really hard to see the light that was once seen and belief departs. When the mind is in darkness, such feel compelled to persecute those who have faith even more than those who have never believed because the spirit that once dwelt brings more spirits so that the condition of the man is worse than before he believed. The compelling can be quite a powerful thing.
Haha, there you go again, trying to dehumanize me by saying I am walking back into darkness. Again, people like you are the ones I will target because you are spiritually bigoted. You look down on non-Christians much as many Muslims look down on non-Muslims. I don't blame you fully, it is the result of the bible's indoctrination on you. It preaches exclusivity. Yahweh supposedly killed people who believed in other gods in the OT so it is natural that you would see people such as myself as less than you.
Quote At this stage, a person is now doing the works of God's enemy of which Jesus came to destroy. Not God's enemy, but Yahweh's enemy. But not even his enemy, because Satan was not an enemy of Yahweh in the OT.
Quote There truly is a battle for men's souls. Battles are not nice and they are not even fair. But to give up fighting for one side only leaves you the other. When you depart the narrow path, you are then on the wide path. On the wide path, there are many philosophies and there are many so-called truths. But that is a road to nowhere. What proof do you have that the Christian road is the only valid road? The bible? Not good enough, I'm afraid. You can't even validate the bible's events.
Quote Life is the greatest gift that we all have, and I for one and never going to blow it away. At least I hope not. Life is so short anyway, why not make it a good life. It's not really even a sacrifice because being good has rewards now and into life everlasting. Amazing, because I feel the same way to an extant. I realized that 20 years of Christianity had reduced my quality of life. It made me bigoted towards non-believers, much like you are. Now I see my fellow human as equal to me, regardless of color, sex, status, or religious affiliation. That is much more rewarding than what I used to believe.
Quote I can see in you KJ the same spirit of persecution that took over my friend. The type that comes from a man who once had faith, but gave it up. The enemy is not slack and he now has license to work in those who deny Christ but once knew him. It is hard to resist his compelling if you don't have the Spirit of Truth to lead you.
Too bad you don't have a clue and are making false assumptions. Your friend and I could not be more unalike. But your wish to view as alike is noted. If it makes you feel sorry for me, go ahead. Your false pity just makes me smile.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,06:50) Did Gandhi persecute those who have faith in God? Maybe your comparison is not a good one? Where do I persecute t8? I call the bible into question, not people. Have you ever spoken out against another religion?
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:16) I am not playing the victim. I am simply helping KJ from being the victim. Victim of what?
Quote His taunts or arguments have no bearing on my faith whatsoever, just as your don't. You call them taunts when they are not that at all. They are a call to reason and to analyze the validity of the bible.
Quote In fact I think that your presence here is good because it gives an opportunity to show how futile it is to argue that there is no God for the benefit of others who read here, and as for KJ, he represents a sector of the human race too, by which we have the opportunity to answer questions that are valid for them. I'm glad you still include me in the human race, even though I am full of evil spirits and walking into darkness
.
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