If you reject the pope you reject paul

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom[1Cor15]

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,14:49)

Hi BD, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom[1Cor15]

So did Jesus drain his blood and remove his flesh when he was raised up Alive to heaven?

Flesh and Blood cannot be God.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
We follow him so read 1 cor 15. 1 thess 4,
What happens to us must have happened to him

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,17:01)

Hi BD, We follow him so read 1 cor 15. 1 thess 4, What happens to us must have happened to him

Speculation is all you have to offer?

[Cindy]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,17:13)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,17:01) Hi BD, We follow him so read 1 cor 15. 1 thess 4, What happens to us must have happened to him Speculation is all you have to offer?

In John 17:5″ And now O Father glorify me together with Yourself with the glory we had before the World was.”
Jesus was with the Father as a Spirit being before His Birth as a man. And He went back to that state, as a Spirit being. That is what we will be too one day. Some will however inherit the earth.  The meek will be in charge on earth.
Peace and Love Irene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Cindy @ July 31 2009,17:26)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,17:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,17:01) Hi BD, We follow him so read 1 cor 15. 1 thess 4, What happens to us must have happened to him Speculation is all you have to offer? In John 17:5″ And now O Father glorify me together with Yourself with the glory we had before the World was.” Jesus was with the Father as a Spirit being before His Birth as a man. And He went back to that state, as a Spirit being. That is what we will be too one day. Some will however inherit the earth.  The meek will be in charge on earth. Peace and Love Irene

Do spirits eat broild fish and honeycomb?

[bodhitharta]

So when Jesus reins for 1000 years will he be reining in the spirit or the flesh, Irene?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,13:05)

Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,12:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,15:58) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,15:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,14:30) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,14:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,14:05) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,12:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,10:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2009,08:30) Hi BD, Your support for the whore is of little use to you in dividing the body of Christ as those in Christ were never one with the Whore. Nick, Can you show me any scripture mentioning the Pope or the Catholic Church being evil or Corrupt? Isn't it true that all the denominations we see today are the falling away and the apostasy from “the Church”? Hi BD: The doctrines of the Catholic church do not line up with what Jesus and the Apostles taught, and so, I seriously doubt that the authority of the Pope was given him by God. Doctrines such a the “trinity”, and practices like praying to the virgin Mary, and calling her in prayer the “mother of God”, and praying also to saints, and other practices are not coming from God since these are not in accordance with His Word. Love in Christ, Marty Neither was the abolishment of the Law. Paul set up Bishops and so how do you consider it is not scriptural when it is. Paul set up the methods of collecting Money  and the entire structure of the Catholic Church so how do you reject the teachings of Paul so easily? Hi BD: Did the Apostle Paul say that the Law was abolished?   And he was an Apostle which means sent by God, and God confirmed what he was teaching with miracles and signs and wonders following. The five fold ministry was not set up by the Apostle Paul but by Jesus. Quote Eph 4:3   Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.   Eph 4:4   [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;   Eph 4:5   One Lord, one faith, one baptism,   Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.   Eph 4:7 ¶ But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.   Eph 4:8   Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.   Eph 4:9   (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?   Eph 4:10   He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)   Eph 4:11   And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;   Eph 4:12   For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:   Eph 4:13   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:   Also, the Catholic church state that the Pope is the successor to the Apostle Peter and not the Apostle Paul.   Love in Christ, Marty You just quoted Paul speaking about Jesus. Paul set up the office of bishop according to the scriptures but they credit Peter as being the first Bishop/Pope. Paul was also the first to call himself a Papa or Spiritual Father i.e. Pope. Paul declared that the Law was abilished at the cross (being nailed to the cross) If Paul was sent by God then why wouldn't the Pope be sent by God and taught by God the things that the church believe in presently? Why do you assume they teach anything incorrectly? Isn't the Catholic Church a spiritual Kingdom on earth? Isn't the Pope a temporary position prepared for the actual second coming of Jesus? Hi BD: Paul did not call himself a pope, but I do think that he called Timothy his spiritual son.   Actually, this is what he said: Quote 1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, [my] own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.   And I believe that you are misunderstanding him relative to what you say about abolishing the law.   He said that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to all who believe in Jesus. Quote Rom 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.   Rom 10:2   For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.   Rom 10:3   For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.   Rom 10:4   For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.   Rom 10:5   For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.   He said that we are saved by Faith so that it may be by grace, but we do not make void the law through faith in Jesus we establish the law.  We fulfill the law through love. Quote Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;   Rom 3:22   Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:   Rom 3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;   Rom 3:24   Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:   Rom 3:25   Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;   Rom 3:26   To declare, , at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.   Rom 3:27 ¶ Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.   Rom 3:28   Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.   Rom 3:29   [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:   Rom 3:30   Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.   Rom 3:31   Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.   Quote Rom 13:8 ¶ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.   Rom 13:9   For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   Rom 13:10   Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.   I don't assume that the teachings of the Catholic church are incorrect.  I know that they are because I can weigh what they teach against the Word of God.  Even the Quran acknowledges that these teachings of the Catholic church are not correct. No, the Catholic church is not a spiritual kingdom on earth, and I do not believe that the authority that the Pope has been given by men has come from God because God does not confirm what they teach. Love in Christ, Marty Paul said that the Law was a curse and it was nailed to the cross. Of course The Quran teaches that the doctrines of The Catholic are incorrect because they instituted the trinity and say that Jesus is God. But, that is because The Quran teaches strict Monotheism like Judaism but much of Christianity is based upon the teachings of Paul and the Catholic Church is not in opposition to the teachings of Paul who was the first to prophesy that Jesus is God. Hi BD: This is what the Apostle Paul actually said regarding the cross: Quote Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;   And please show me where the Apostle Paul prophesied that Jesus was God. Love in Christ, Marty Hebrews 1:7-9 (King James Version) 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. He says that God was speaking to Jesus but the person the psalmist was calling God was a King it was not God speaking to anyone. Psalm 45:5-7 (King James Version) 5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Who was speaking here? Psalm 45 1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. 2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. But Paul says that this is God speaking to Jesus.

Hi BD:

Some say that the Apostle Paul wrote the epistle of Hebrews, but it is not clear who wrote it, and so, I don't believe that you can attribute this to the Apostle Paul, but if the psalmist intended these scriptures for a King, probably Solomon, Jesus is the King of kings, and so, it would also be attributed to him in his position of authority.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2009,07:26)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,13:05) Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,12:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,15:58) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,15:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,14:30) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,14:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,14:05) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,12:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,10:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2009,08:30) Hi BD, Your support for the whore is of little use to you in dividing the body of Christ as those in Christ were never one with the Whore. Nick, Can you show me any scripture mentioning the Pope or the Catholic Church being evil or Corrupt? Isn't it true that all the denominations we see today are the falling away and the apostasy from “the Church”? Hi BD: The doctrines of the Catholic church do not line up with what Jesus and the Apostles taught, and so, I seriously doubt that the authority of the Pope was given him by God. Doctrines such a the “trinity”, and practices like praying to the virgin Mary, and calling her in prayer the “mother of God”, and praying also to saints, and other practices are not coming from God since these are not in accordance with His Word. Love in Christ, Marty Neither was the abolishment of the Law. Paul set up Bishops and so how do you consider it is not scriptural when it is. Paul set up the methods of collecting Money  and the entire structure of the Catholic Church so how do you reject the teachings of Paul so easily? Hi BD: Did the Apostle Paul say that the Law was abolished?   And he was an Apostle which means sent by God, and God confirmed what he was teaching with miracles and signs and wonders following. The five fold ministry was not set up by the Apostle Paul but by Jesus. Quote Eph 4:3   Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.   Eph 4:4   [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;   Eph 4:5   One Lord, one faith, one baptism,   Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.   Eph 4:7 ¶ But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.   Eph 4:8   Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.   Eph 4:9   (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?   Eph 4:10   He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)   Eph 4:11   And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;   Eph 4:12   For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:   Eph 4:13   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:   Also, the Catholic church state that the Pope is the successor to the Apostle Peter and not the Apostle Paul.   Love in Christ, Marty You just quoted Paul speaking about Jesus. Paul set up the office of bishop according to the scriptures but they credit Peter as being the first Bishop/Pope. Paul was also the first to call himself a Papa or Spiritual Father i.e. Pope. Paul declared that the Law was abilished at the cross (being nailed to the cross) If Paul was sent by God then why wouldn't the Pope be sent by God and taught by God the things that the church believe in presently? Why do you assume they teach anything incorrectly? Isn't the Catholic Church a spiritual Kingdom on earth? Isn't the Pope a temporary position prepared for the actual second coming of Jesus? Hi BD: Paul did not call himself a pope, but I do think that he called Timothy his spiritual son.   Actually, this is what he said: Quote 1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, [my] own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.   And I believe that you are misunderstanding him relative to what you say about abolishing the law.   He said that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to all who believe in Jesus. He said that we are saved by Faith so that it may be by grace, but we do not make void the law through faith in Jesus we establish the law.  We fulfill the law through love. Quote Rom 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.   Rom 10:2   For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.   Rom 10:3   For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.   Rom 10:4   For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.   Rom 10:5   For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.   Quote Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;   Rom 3:22   Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:   Rom 3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;   Rom 3:24   Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:   Rom 3:25   Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;   Rom 3:26   To declare, , at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.   Rom 3:27 ¶ Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.   Rom 3:28   Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.   Rom 3:29   [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:   Rom 3:30   Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.   Rom 3:31   Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.   Quote Rom 13:8 ¶ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.   Rom 13:9   For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   Rom 13:10   Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.   I don't assume that the teachings of the Catholic church are incorrect.  I know that they are because I can weigh what they teach against the Word of God.  Even the Quran acknowledges that these teachings of the Catholic church are not correct. No, the Catholic church is not a spiritual kingdom on earth, and I do not believe that the authority that the Pope has been given by men has come from God because God does not confirm what they teach. Love in Christ, Marty Paul said that the Law was a curse and it was nailed to the cross. Of course The Quran teaches that the doctrines of The Catholic are incorrect because they instituted the trinity and say that Jesus is God. But, that is because The Quran teaches strict Monotheism like Judaism but much of Christianity is based upon the teachings of Paul and the Catholic Church is not in opposition to the teachings of Paul who was the first to prophesy that Jesus is God. Hi BD: This is what the Apostle Paul actually said regarding the cross: Quote Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;   And please show me where the Apostle Paul prophesied that Jesus was God. Love in Christ, Marty Hebrews 1:7-9 (King James Version) 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. He says that God was speaking to Jesus but the person the psalmist was calling God was a King it was not God speaking to anyone. Psalm 45:5-7 (King James Version) 5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Who was speaking here? Psalm 45 1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. 2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. But Paul says that this is God speaking to Jesus. Hi BD: Some say that the Apostle Paul wrote the epistle of Hebrews, but it is not clear who wrote it, and so, I don't believe that you can attribute this to the Apostle Paul, but if the psalmist intended these scriptures for a King, probably Solomon, Jesus is the King of kings, and so, it would also be attributed to him in his position of authority. Love in Christ, Marty

I don't have a problem with that Marty, But the fact is the Author/Paul/? is saying that “God said” and it is not God saying it:

You don't find a problem with that? Isn't it a FALSE statement to say someone said something and in-fact they did not say it. The psalmist isn't God and yet the hebrews author says God said,

That would make it a FALSE PROPHESY.

[NickHassan]

hi BD,
You would judge the wisdom of God and His spirit from where you stand?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,08:54)

hi BD, You would judge the wisdom of God and His spirit from where you stand?

You said yourself to test the spirits, do you take that statement back now?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Why would you assume you are able to judge the wisdom of God?
Scripture is the wisdom of God[lk11]

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2009,08:39)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2009,07:26) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,13:05) Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,12:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,15:58) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,15:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,14:30) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,14:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,14:05) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,12:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,10:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2009,08:30) Hi BD, Your support for the whore is of little use to you in dividing the body of Christ as those in Christ were never one with the Whore. Nick, Can you show me any scripture mentioning the Pope or the Catholic Church being evil or Corrupt? Isn't it true that all the denominations we see today are the falling away and the apostasy from “the Church”? Hi BD: The doctrines of the Catholic church do not line up with what Jesus and the Apostles taught, and so, I seriously doubt that the authority of the Pope was given him by God. Doctrines such a the “trinity”, and practices like praying to the virgin Mary, and calling her in prayer the “mother of God”, and praying also to saints, and other practices are not coming from God since these are not in accordance with His Word. Love in Christ, Marty Neither was the abolishment of the Law. Paul set up Bishops and so how do you consider it is not scriptural when it is. Paul set up the methods of collecting Money  and the entire structure of the Catholic Church so how do you reject the teachings of Paul so easily? Hi BD: Did the Apostle Paul say that the Law was abolished?   And he was an Apostle which means sent by God, and God confirmed what he was teaching with miracles and signs and wonders following. The five fold ministry was not set up by the Apostle Paul but by Jesus. Quote Eph 4:3   Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.   Eph 4:4   [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;   Eph 4:5   One Lord, one faith, one baptism,   Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.   Eph 4:7 ¶ But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.   Eph 4:8   Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.   Eph 4:9   (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?   Eph 4:10   He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)   Eph 4:11   And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;   Eph 4:12   For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:   Eph 4:13   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:   Also, the Catholic church state that the Pope is the successor to the Apostle Peter and not the Apostle Paul.   Love in Christ, Marty You just quoted Paul speaking about Jesus. Paul set up the office of bishop according to the scriptures but they credit Peter as being the first Bishop/Pope. Paul was also the first to call himself a Papa or Spiritual Father i.e. Pope. Paul declared that the Law was abilished at the cross (being nailed to the cross) If Paul was sent by God then why wouldn't the Pope be sent by God and taught by God the things that the church believe in presently? Why do you assume they teach anything incorrectly? Isn't the Catholic Church a spiritual Kingdom on earth? Isn't the Pope a temporary position prepared for the actual second coming of Jesus? Hi BD: Paul did not call himself a pope, but I do think that he called Timothy his spiritual son.   Actually, this is what he said: Quote 1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, [my] own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.   And I believe that you are misunderstanding him relative to what you say about abolishing the law.   He said that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to all who believe in Jesus. Quote Rom 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.   Rom 10:2   For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.   Rom 10:3   For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.   Rom 10:4   For Christ [is] the end of the law f or righteousness to every one that believeth.   Rom 10:5   For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.   He said that we are saved by Faith so that it may be by grace, but we do not make void the law through faith in Jesus we establish the law.  We fulfill the law through love. Quote Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;   Rom 3:22   Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:   Rom 3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;   Rom 3:24   Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:   Rom 3:25   Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;   Rom 3:26   To declare, , at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.   Rom 3:27 ¶ Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.   Rom 3:28   Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.   Rom 3:29   [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:   Rom 3:30   Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.   Rom 3:31   Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.   Quote Rom 13:8 ¶ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.   Rom 13:9   For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   Rom 13:10   Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.   I don't assume that the teachings of the Catholic church are incorrect.  I know that they are because I can weigh what they teach against the Word of God.  Even the Quran acknowledges that these teachings of the Catholic church are not correct. No, the Catholic church is not a spiritual kingdom on earth, and I do not believe that the authority that the Pope has been given by men has come from God because God does not confirm what they teach. Love in Christ, Marty Paul said that the Law was a curse and it was nailed to the cross. Of course The Quran teaches that the doctrines of The Catholic are incorrect because they instituted the trinity and say that Jesus is God. But, that is because The Quran teaches strict Monotheism like Judaism but much of Christianity is based upon the teachings of Paul and the Catholic Church is not in opposition to the teachings of Paul who was the first to prophesy that Jesus is God. Hi BD: This is what the Apostle Paul actually said regarding the cross: Quote Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;   And please show me where the Apostle Paul prophesied that Jesus was God. Love in Christ, Marty Hebrews 1:7-9 (King James Version) 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. He says that God was speaking to Jesus but the person the psalmist was calling God was a King it was not God speaking to anyone. Psalm 45:5-7 (King James Version) 5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Who was speaking here? Psalm 45 1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. 2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. But Paul says that this is God speaking to Jesus. Hi BD: Some say that the Apostle Paul wrote the epistle of Hebrews, but it is not clear who wrote it, and so, I don't believe that you can attribute this to the Apostle Paul, but if the psalmist intended these scriptures for a King, probably Solomon, Jesus is the King of kings, and so, it would also be attributed to him in his position of authority. Love in Christ, Marty I don't have a problem with that Marty, But the fact is the Author/Paul/? is saying that “God said” and it is not God saying it: You don't find a problem with that? Isn't it a FALSE statement to say someone said something and in-fact they did not say it. The psalmist isn't God and yet the hebrews author says God said, That would make it a FALSE PROPHESY.

Hi BD:

I will have to look at the referenced Psalm more closely. David who wrote many of the psalms was said to speaking by the Holy Ghost, i.e. Psalm 110.

And also, this scripture:

Quote

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I certainly would not have a problem calling Jesus God, but not in the sense of the “Trinity”. He is the express image of God's person. When we have seen him through the works of obedience that he did to God, we have seen God's attributes manifest through his life.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi BD:

Actually, it may be that the Psalmist is speaking to God in verse 45:6 rather than to a man.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2009,09:30)

Hi BD: I will have to look at the referenced Psalm more closely.  David who wrote many of the psalms was said to speaking by the Holy Ghost, i.e. Psalm 110. And also, this scripture: Quote 2Ti 3:16   All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:   I certainly would not have a problem calling Jesus God, but not in the sense of the “Trinity”.  He is the express image of God's person.  When we have seen him through the works of obedience that he did to God, we have seen God's attributes manifest through his life. Love in Christ, Marty

for reproof, for correction

Would you have a problem with calling Jesus “The Most High”?

[942767]

Hi BD:

This deserves more study. I am glad that you brought it up.

Quote

Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The words (he saith) are in brackets and have been added by the translators. YLT reads:

Quote

Hbr 1:8 and unto the Son: `Thy throne, O God, [is] to the age of the age; a scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of thy reign

I need to go to my God in prayer about this.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Paladin]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,16:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,14:49) Hi BD, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom[1Cor15] So did Jesus drain his blood and remove his flesh when he was raised up Alive to heaven? Flesh and Blood cannot be God.

Scripture says – “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

Jesus' blood was poured out on Calvary's cross, into the earth.

“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” [Luke 24:39]

Jesus ascended intoheaven, flesh and bones, not flesh and blood. And the reason?

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” [Lev 17:11]

If Jesus' blood was still in his body, man would deny his sacrifice, and his death. It was therefore poured out upon the ground at Calvary.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2009,09:54)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2009,09:30) Hi BD: I will have to look at the referenced Psalm more closely.  David who wrote many of the psalms was said to speaking by the Holy Ghost, i.e. Psalm 110. And also, this scripture: Quote 2Ti 3:16   All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:   I certainly would not have a problem calling Jesus God, but not in the sense of the “Trinity”.  He is the express image of God's person.  When we have seen him through the works of obedience that he did to God, we have seen God's attributes manifest through his life. Love in Christ, Marty for reproof, for correction Would you have a problem with calling Jesus “The Most High”?

Hi BD:

Yes, I would. There is only “One God”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 01 2009,10:43)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2009,16:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,14:49) Hi BD, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom[1Cor15] So did Jesus drain his blood and remove his flesh when he was raised up Alive to heaven? Flesh and Blood cannot be God. Scripture says – “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” Jesus' blood was poured out on Calvary's cross, into the earth. “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” [Luke 24:39] Jesus ascended intoheaven, flesh and bones, not flesh and blood. And the reason? “For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” [Lev 17:11] If Jesus' blood was still in his body, man would deny his sacrifice, and his death. It was therefore poured out upon the ground at Calvary.

Paladin,

The ground is not an alter and all blood that was poured onto the ground was that which was polluted and you of all people should know this.

Flesh and bones without blood is not life and therefore you assume that Jesus ascended to heaven “dead”?

He was not a ghost and he ate broiled fish and honeycomb. You cannot even swallow without blood. The blood is the life and it is the living blood of Jesus that is atonement for the dead know nothing.

A cross of murder is not an alter, Paladin

7And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

9And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

10But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

We see here clearly that atonement can be made without bloodshed

[Cindy]

Quote (Everlasting father Jesus @ July 31 2009,04:11)

Quote (Cindy @ July 30 2009,17:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2009,07:44) WJ, Thinker, Nick and whoever else If you reject the Pope like I know some of you do, especially the ones mentioned above you reject the teachings of Paul as he instituted the office of Head Bishop i.e. Pope. The Pope represents the triumph of Christ over his enemies as The Vatican is clear evidence of. So isn't rejecting the Pope rejecting Christ? That statement is absolutely ridiculous.   We were Catholics before and I do know that most Catholics do worship the Pope like He is Christ Himself.  However I believe now how wrong that is.  It is the Catholic Church that was the first Universal Roman Catholic Church that believed in the Trinity Doctrine which we can prove to be wrong. Out of that Church came all other so called Christian Churches.  Rev. tells us to come out of Her my People.  We did and do not believe in a Trinity any more.  One more thing, the Bishops are besides the Pope and are not at all are the Pope.  And no it is not rejecting Christ. Peace and Love Irene I don't believe we can reject the Pope and revelations doesn't mention the Catholic Church is anything bad do you have any scriptures about that? The Pope is the head bishop and he is called Father because he is our spiritual Father just like Paul said he was Timothy's Father. The Bible does talk about the falling away of the saints and it sounds to me that is what you did. You left the Church it didn't leave you and why did you reject the trinity if that was a revelation of the church?

I told you that the Catholic Church was the first Church, that instituted the trinity doctrine. The Church is called even now the Roman Catholic Church. Not only is that wrong, but also worshipping Maria like God. Saying the Rosary and much more. She did not stay a Virgin either, like you and other Catholics do, is idolatry. First the true Christians were persecuted by the Romans and later by the Catholic Church. Millions lost their lives, because they had read the Bible. We never read the Bible back when we belonged to that Church. That is now 25 years ago. We were 46 and 47 years old. We are forever thankful to God for calling us out. When we first started to ask our Priest about this, He the PRIEST even said God is calling you. I found that really interesting. He knew something.
Peace and Love Irene

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