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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,04:08) Hi Malcolm,
The breath of God gave two things to the dust of man to make him a living being-soul and spirit-so the verse about where the spirit of men and beasts go does not relate does it?
Hi NickQuote The breath of God gave two things to the dust of man to make him a living being-soul and spirit Does it say that God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath consisting of a spirit and a soul?
It says the breath of life I prefer “lives” – as all life of man was contained within Adam our original ancestor)
And this breath of life caused Adam to become a living soul – an enlivened being.
This spark of life set Adam into animated existence.
He became an enlivened soul
Even as a seed in soil is potential life but not manifest as such until it is quickened to life.The breath that was Adam's was given by God
Came from God – made him Adam – a unique and individual being.It was Adam's breath from the time he became a living soul – which –
Though coming from God –
was able to reason independently and to decide and make choices of his own.The spark of God initiated this breath to make him a living soul,
and it is the spirit of God that sustains this life.So what you are saying is correct I think
Imparted to Adam was the breath of life which enlivened his soul.
This was done by a quickening spirit of life given from God
Which spirit is essential for the expression of our life in a physical body.Eccl 12:7 – tells us the body returns to the dust from whence it came and the spirit returns to God (from whence it came)
This speaking of mankind and not animal life I believe.We also know from scripture that we are a tri-partite being of body, soul and spirit
So the soul is left out of the equation of Eccl12:7 – the soul is still in question
What happens to the soul? The Judgment of God to come will determine this for each on an individual basis.God formed man from the dust of the earth. What does that mean – he made a clay statue?
No – he took the elements of the earth, minerals combined into a structure that formed a body for man.
That form includes the genetic structures and patterns that make up a human being
That makes us a unique life form expressed in flesh.Hi Malcolm,
Gen 2.7” 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,”
Not a lot of much in the dust of the ground- humus, minerals, water.
Can't see much intelligence or future breeding potential in the dust of the ground sorry Malcolm.Enough to form flesh
as dust is what flesh returns to
but no heart and mind –
they come from the breath of God in my view.God may see the lives of the distant seed in Adam
but Adam was only given his own life.I Cor 15:39 tells us that all flesh is not the same, there is one flesh of birds another of fish, of beasts and of men.
This being the case – are we to assume that all spirits are the same? HardlySo when we see that these two words Ruwach and Nshamah are used interchangeably to mean spirit or breath of life – either of man, beast or God.
We surely do not make the mistake of thinking that all Ruwach (spirit/breath) is the same
For this word is used to refer to the Spirit of God also.
Neither should we be so remiss as to suggest that all Nshamah (spirit/breath) is the same
Based simply on the fact that the word is used to refer to either the breath/spirit of men and beasts.PROVERBS 20:27
The spirit (NSHAMAH) of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
(If this is just the breath of man and if it is no different that the breath of all living things how can it be said to be the light of the LORD –
Something that searches the innermost parts of our being?)Hi Malcolm,
You could do what you liked to a piece of clay but you could not give it life and personality.But God does see us as clay.
Is 29
” 16You turn things around!
Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay,
That what is made would say to its maker, “He did not make me”;
Or what is formed say to him who formed it, “He has no understanding”?
Is 45
9″Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker–
An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth!
Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?'Is 64
” 8But now, O LORD, You are our Father,
We are the clay, and You our potter;
And all of us are the work of Your hand.”Rom 9.20
” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?”Flesh is only a tent for who we are,
and who we are came from the breath of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,11:09) Hi Malcolm,
Gen 2.7” 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,”
Not a lot of much in the dust of the ground- humus, minerals, water.
Can't see much intelligence or future breeding potential in the dust of the ground sorry Malcolm.Enough to form flesh
as dust is what flesh returns to
but no heart and mind –
they come from the breath of God in my view.God may see the lives of the distant seed in Adam
but Adam was only given his own life.
The discovery of genetics –
what little we know of it to date lets us know that the very combination of simple minerals
(amino acids – bases or whatever – I am no expert)
4 bases I believe it is – in combination through the complex encoding of the awesome mind of God –
Combine to form our individual DNA
This DNA is uniform in one sense amongst all men and unique from the pattern of DNA in all other creatures.
Also it is unique within this pattern amongst all human beings (identical twins being an exception)PSALMS 139:13-16
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.I think you are underselling even the fallen creation Nick…
Hi Malcolm,
You say
” Cor 15:39 tells us that all flesh is not the same, there is one flesh of birds another of fish, of beasts and of men.
This being the case – are we to assume that all spirits are the same?”Why should we?
Why should not the breath of God produce in a turtle the being of a turtle and in man soul and spirit?
One thing is for certain that all flesh has the same origin, whether man or beast or bird, in the same dust of the ground but it is the creative breath of God that creates different beings from that dust and lives in man as a lent spirit candle of life for God to know our hearts, and returns to Him at death.
Hi Malcolm,
You could maybe line up all the atoms to form DNA but you would not have life.Speaking of man as flesh God said in Gen 3.
“19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return”For a time after death a body without life exists and it looks like a man but within days it starts it's return to dust.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,11:24) Hi Malcolm,
You could do what you liked to a piece of clay but you could not give it life and personality.But God does see us as clay.
Is 29
” 16You turn things around!
Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay,
That what is made would say to its maker, “He did not make me”;
Or what is formed say to him who formed it, “He has no understanding”?
Is 45
9″Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker–
An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth!
Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?'Is 64
” 8But now, O LORD, You are our Father,
We are the clay, and You our potter;
And all of us are the work of Your hand.”Rom 9.20
” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?”Flesh is only a tent for who we are,
and who we are came from the breath of God.
You say “God does see us as clay”Is this literal clay?
No this is an illustrative analogy – he sees us as clay in relation to Himself as a potter –
In other words as raw material in the hands of a creator.He sees us as completely subject to His will and purpose
And Himself as Sovereign
In regards to His creation of us and our part in His plans.I think we have an issue of context to consider here.
You also say “
Flesh is only a tent for who we are,
and who we are came from the breath of God.”And who are we? Sons of God – by the breath of God.
And is it said of any other creature formed from dust that they are sons of God?
Yet they according to you came also from the breath of God in identical fashion to us –
Giving us therefore no preeminence over them from the very outsetYet as I have already pointed out – man was clearly put in a position of preeminence at the beginning
Even being blessed and told to be masters of all else on earth.It is the fall due to the transgression that changed this.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,11:37) Hi Malcolm,
You could maybe line up all the atoms to form DNA but you would not have life.Speaking of man as flesh God said in Gen 3.
“19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return”For a time after death a body without life exists and it looks like a man but within days it starts it's return to dust.
Once again I have one word to say to this “context”God speaking here to man who has just transgressed His commandment
So this statement is made as a result of this – as part of the statement of punishment to man for this transgression.GENESIS 3:17-19
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.God formed the tabernacle of human flesh for man to dwell in –
He made him a vessel fitting for such a being – one who is made in His own image and likeness.Hi Malcolm,
The flesh conceived of Mary and God was a tabernacle for the Son of God, a spiritual being.
The Word became flesh and dwelled among us.
The soul vessel of the Son of God was later filled with the Spiriit of God such that fullness of deity dwelled in him.
His flesh died but God was still in him, and raised him and is still in him forever.
We too are enlivened soul vessels made like unto God and housed in flesh.
Our inner cups too can be cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and filled with the Spirit of God unto eternity.
Thus can God be all in all unified in His Spirit for eternity.
Our weak flesh puts on a heavenly body like to that of the man from heaven that is imperishable.Men magnify the flesh of dust but as Jesus said in Jn 6
” 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
Hi Malcolm,
You say“And who are we? Sons of God – by the breath of God”
Then are all men sons of God unto eternity?
Sons of Adam, by the breath of God, are not eternal sons of God.
Sons of the second Adam, by the Spirit of God, are.No only those reborn of the eternal spirit, the man from heaven, the Son of God
are adopted Sons of God and all creation awaits their revelation.Hi Malcolm,
“Flesh is only a tent for who we are,
and who we are came from the breath of God.”2 Cor 4
” 7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. “2 Cor 5
” 1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:”
Hi Malcolm,
You ask
“God formed man from the dust of the earth. What does that mean – he made a clay statue? “
Yes.
And so could you but you could not impart to that clay, heart, mind and life.
They came from the breath of God.We are made in the image of God and God is not flesh.
Our likeness to God is in the inner man.Rom 7
“18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
Hi Malcolm,
You say“The spirit of God in our nostrils would seem to be the spark of life that both initiates our life
and also sustains it during the course of its natural expression in a body. “the breath of God
is not
the Spirit of God.Or why would Romans 8 say
” 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: “
Surely our spirit
would be
The Holy Spirit.And we know that is not so.
and 1 Cor 2
“10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
Our spirit cannot know the deep things of God but only when reborn of the Spirit of God can we grasp what is of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,19:32) Hi Malcolm,
The flesh conceived of Mary and God was a tabernacle for the Son of God, a spiritual being.
The Word became flesh and dwelled among us.
The soul vessel of the Son of God was later filled with the Spiriit of God such that fullness of deity dwelled in him.
His flesh died but God was still in him, and raised him and is still in him forever.
We too are enlivened soul vessels made like unto God and housed in flesh.
Our inner cups too can be cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and filled with the Spirit of God unto eternity.
Thus can God be all in all unified in His Spirit for eternity.
Our weak flesh puts on a heavenly body like to that of the man from heaven that is imperishable.Men magnify the flesh of dust but as Jesus said in Jn 6
” 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
Hi NickQuote
The flesh conceived of Mary and God was a tabernacle for the Son of God, a spiritual being.
The Word became flesh and dwelled among us.
The soul vessel of the Son of God was later filled with the Spiriit of God such that fullness of deity dwelled in him.
His flesh died but God was still in him, and raised him and is still in him forever.God's life was in him from birth making him a son
Quote We too are enlivened soul vessels made like unto God and housed in flesh. but unlike him our soul is marred by sin
Quote Our inner cups too can be cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and filled with the Spirit of God unto eternity. are you suggesting Jesus was born in sin? Like us? How could he be called that holy one – the son of God then?
II CORINTHIANS 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.GALATIANS 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:Quote
Our weak flesh puts on a heavenly body like to that of the man from heaven that is imperishable.
Men magnify the flesh of dust but as Jesus said in Jn 6
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.Our bodies are the temple of the Living God
The temple of itself is not important but it is made more glorious by reason of that which dwells in it.
Our bodies were made to be such a temple
They were never intended to be a vessel to dishonor but became such because of sin in the Garden.But each of us is given the choice as to how we yield our vessels.
We can be redeemed by the cleansing blood of the precious Lamb of God and become a temple to His honor if we so choose.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,19:43) Hi Malcolm,
You say“And who are we? Sons of God – by the breath of God”
Then are all men sons of God unto eternity?
Sons of Adam, by the breath of God, are not eternal sons of God.
Sons of the second Adam, by the Spirit of God, are.No only those reborn of the eternal spirit, the man from heaven, the Son of God
are adopted Sons of God and all creation awaits their revelation.Quote Then are all men sons of God unto eternity? no all true sons of Adam are fallen sons of God and He will lose none of them
Quote Sons of Adam, by the breath of God, are not eternal sons of God. because of sin we lose the right to approach unto this,
which is why Jesus was sent
to gain us back that right through him to return us to fellowship with God.Quote Sons of the second Adam, by the Spirit of God, are. why? Because the sin problem is solved,
and so by a spiritual rebirth we are restored
back in our soul to the sinless condition Adam and Eve had in the garden
when they walked in fellowship with God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2006,20:05) Hi Malcolm, “Flesh is only a tent for who we are,
and who we are came from the breath of God.”2 Cor 4
” 7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. “2 Cor 5
” 1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:”
Hi NickGALATIANS 1:15-16
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:What did God reveal to Paul?
That he needed to repent to get the Son of God in his heart?
According to Paul here – he revealed that Paul was a son of God – that God's son was in Him.
that His soul came from God.Paul is not saying that God had to give him a revelation that he had been born again.
We don’t need a revelation to know this – it is a reality to those who have experienced it.
If the son of God is alive in your heart – you need no revelation to be aware of it.You need a revelation to know however that you are a son of God –
that you were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world
That you are one of God's lost sheep that Jesus was sent to earth to redeem by his blood.Hi Malcolm,
He inherited our sinful estate being made like us in all ways except sin-so he was tempted from within in every way we are but DID NOT SIN. He had no supernatural advantages over us. He is the overcomer that we must follow by his grace that we can become overcomers too.He is the Monogenes son who was sent into the world partaking of our flesh through Mary.
Hi Malcolm,
This how Paul described his calling.Acts 9
” 1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.”
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