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Hi Nick
True, and yet it cannot be said of our original earthly parents that they were born in sin, shaped in iniquity or came into the world speaking lies.
So the sin condition changes things substantially – hence we must be born again.
I also think it is more than a little significant that Jesus breathed on his disciples and said – recieve the Holy Spirit.
He being the second Adam – the first of a new race. (John 5:26)Hi Malcolm,
Adam chose a new God, the serpent, and God distanced Himself from them. Jesus came to cleanse us again to make us suitable servant/vessels for God to lead from within by His own Spirit unto eternal life. When Jesus came he found that the religious experts were still following their father from Eden and had no interest in the ways of God.
Many still do.Nick
I thought Adam listened to the voice of his wife – instead of God. I don't read of Adam having any direct communication with the Serpent.
So if Adam had another God then it was more likely the woman…
Or was she the high priestess of a new Serpent religion?Hi Malcolm,
And who did the woman listen to?
So this was the first example of men following men who were following Satan, the god of this world.Hi Nick
I TIMOTHY 2:12-14
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.This tells me that Adam was not deceived, the woman was.
So evidently he knew exactly what he was doing
In other words – she was tricked into forfeiting her life.
Adam went into the deal eyes wide open – why? to die with her?…Hi Malcolm,
He was easily led and not rooted in faith, and he apparently did not fear God.
Gen 3
” 17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; “Hi Nick
Well we can surmise as to the reasons…
We are told Adam was a son of God, made in the image of God.
God loved us so much He gave His only begotten son to redeem us.
We are told that Jesus loved us and gave himself for us – as a sacrifice…
Adam had a son who was clearly godlike called Abel – who's life was taken also…
I would say that Adam loved Eve and gave his life in a desperate attempt to save her somehow.
Much as Moses threw himself into the breach between God's wrath and Israel when they provoked Him to anger…Hi Malcolm,
Things would have been different and he had stood strong, as Abraham did with his only begotten son set to be sacrificed, and been willing to face the consequences of odedience to God instead of humanistic compromise and worshiping the god of the world.But if Adam had not rebelled then we would never have known the love of God in His Son.
Hi Nick
True
At the risk of sounding philosophical – what is a Saviour without someone to save?
God could not have set them up to fall, they had a choice.
But he could set the situation such that it was possible.It is not without significance that the woman was unique from the rest of creation.
All of the other creatures were made in pairs of male and female.Hi Malcolm,
If Adam had not fallen then would he not be held up as an emblem of man? Perhaps God had to let man show his intrinsic weakness for humility's sake? We are but grass.Hi Nick
Quote If Adam had not fallen then would he not be held up as an emblem of man?
I am having trouble trying to parse this double negative.
Normally two negatives cancel each other out – removing “not” from the above question :If Adam had fallen then would he be held up as an emblem of man?
Sorry I don't get what you are asking here – or trying to say – I guess I'm just a bit thick.
Did Adam know what he was doing? Yes
Why did he therefore do it? <>
Did Adam fall and therefore fall short of the glory he could have attained to? Yes – he never got to the tree of life.
Did Adam reach his potential as a son of God? No – he fell in his flesh and dragged his spirit and soul down with it.
Did Adam's potential lay in what he could achieve in the flesh? No – I do not believe so.
I believe his potential lay in what he could come to in his soul. The flesh is merely a vehicle for the soul – a tabernacle.Hi Malcolm,
If Adam had succeeded then surely he would be an eternal human hero and God would not be glorified.The food aspect is the flesh and I do not think Eve ate the apple because she was hungry.
Ge 3
” 1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
She knew and understood the command of God.
But because she
Did not fear God
Did not believe God
Did not love God and His fellowship
Preferred the voice of a stranger
Believed Satan
Followed Satan
Obeyed Satan
Believed God had lied
Rebelled against God
Wanted independant life from God
Wanted independance from man
Wanted to be like God
Wanted more understanding
Preferred logic to obedience
She acted alone and defied God.These are attitudes of the mind and heart not of the body which only gives us appetites.
Adam followed her thus accepting all these attitudes too and also showed he preferred the evidence of experience to faith and obedience. He followed man. He preferred human fellowship to divine.
believed
GENESIS 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.God formed the man from earth – a natural created man.
God breathed into him the breath of lives
For every son of God has their origin in him. (1 Cor 15:21-22 )
Even as in Christ we have our status as sons of God restored (Jn 5:26)What life was this that was breathed into Adam?
We read nowhere of life being breathed into any other creatures earthly, nor angels heavenly.
What comes out of God's mouth? The Word (Isa 55:11)
The life was God's own life – Holy Spirit life.
Which life was marred in the transgression of sin in the garden
So that now instead of the expression of eternal life that should come from a son of God
We have a fallen life that is unto physical death and judgment to follow.We see this life restored in Jn 20:22
JOHN 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:So this giving of the Holy Spirit upon the finished work of Calvary achieves for us therefore a restoration to the status of sons of God, even as Adam and Eve had in the garden of Eden before the fall.
Ready now to dwell in the presence of God and to come to the Tree of Life.Hi Malcolm,
You said
“God breathed into him the breath of lives
For every son of God has their origin in him. (1 Cor 15:21-22 )
Even as in Christ we have our status as sons of God restored (Jn 5:26)”Gen 2.7
” 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life[ 2425b]; and man became a living soul.”1Cor 15
” 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.[2227]”
Jn 5.26″“26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [2222] in himself”
Adam lived by the breath of God
Adam was not given the Spirit of God.
Adam did not partake of the tree of life.
Adam did not attain eternal life.Even animals live by the breath of God
Animals do not live forever.Jesus is the bread of life.
Jesus is the living spirit unto eternal life.
Those who come to him drink the water unto eternity.
Those who partake of him live forever.1Cor 15
” 47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.”Hi Nick
Quote Adam lived by the breath of God
Adam was not given the Spirit of God.Breath of God – Spirit of God
There is a difference you say?The Word translated breath in the Hebrew is Nshamah
The Word used for Spirit as in the Spirit of God in the Hebrew is RuwachJob 9:18
He will not allow me to get my breath (Ruwach) , But saturates me with bitterness. [NASB]Gen 7:22
of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit (Nshamah) of life, died. [NASB]Job 26:4 spirit
To whom have you uttered words? And whose spirit (Nshamah) was expressed through you? [NASB]Gen 6:17
Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life (Ruwach), from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish. [NASB]Gen 7:15
So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life (Ruwach). [NASB]So the word that is used for Spirit is also used for breath
And the word for breath is also translated : 'breath of the spirit of life' and 'spirit'
Not so clear cut I think…Quote
Adam did not partake of the tree of life.
Adam did not attain eternal life.The breath of life from God did not guarantee that Adam would attain eternal life, it depended upon his coming to the tree of life.
He clearly had the potential due to the life that was breathed in him to do so.In Gen 3:22 God set guards upon the tree of life to prevent him from partaking of it in his now fallen condition.
So it could have been possible for this to have happened but God would not allow it, why? Because then Adam would be eternally in a fallen condition – it would mar eternal life.Question – could any other animal have partaken of the tree of life? Was it a natural tree? I don't believe it was – I do not believe that the two notable trees in the midst of the garden were natural trees to supply food for the body, but were spiritual beings.
Quote Even animals live by the breath of God
Animals do not live forever.Even animals live by the breath of God? Where does it say that in the Word?
Num 16:22
But they fell on their faces and said, “O God, God of the spirits (Ruwach) of all flesh, when one man sins, will You be angry with the entire congregation?” [NASB]The same word used for Spirit as in Spirit of God is used here for spirits of all flesh, this does not suggest that the same kind of spirit as God is upon all flesh.
Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil ,spirit (Ruwach) between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech, [NASB]This does not suggest that the same spirit as God is upon evil spirits. The same word is used to describe wind – which is clearly not the spirit of God.
Hi Malcolm
You say
“He clearly had the potential due to the life that was breathed in him to do so.”
I can use my battery till I plug my computer into the wall?
Life
is not
eternal life[2222]Gen 3.22f
” 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
So more opportunity to taste eternal life.
Hi Malcolm.
“Even animals live by the breath of God? Where does it say that in the Word?”
Here are some scriptures that may give light.Gen 6
” 17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. “Jb 34
” 14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. “
Gen 7
“15And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. “
” 21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died”
Eccl 3
” 19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”
Job 33
” 4The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.”What would have happened if Adam and Eve had partaken of the tree of life after having partaken of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
GENESIS 3:22-24
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.Nothing philosophical about this. GOD SAID – if they now take from the tree of life then they well live forever.
However I don't beleive God would have allowed that given their newly aquired fallen state.
So He withdrew access to the tree of life.
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