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Hi Nick
We have nothing to offer God – True.
But we must have something to receive God with.
Otherwise like the Pharisees we will have no way of getting what God has to offer us.Quote Repentance and baptism and the inner cleansing of the conscience by God allows the Spirit of Grace to be reborn into us and the seed that is planted to die. In God's time if we feed on the word we see Christ being born into us renewing us by a transformation of our mind and heart unto the mind of Christ. Are you saying that the Word of God has to first die in us before it can come forth?
JOHN 12:23-24
And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.Jesus had to die so that the Word of God by the Spirit of God might come back in multiplied form upon many members.
You say:
Repentance ,Baptism ,Inner cleansing of the conscience …
Allows the Spirit of Grace to be reborn into us. (reborn? When was the Spirit of Grace born into us prior to this?) … and the seed that is planted (Word) to die? – So the Word of God has to die in us?
How is this to happen? That the Word of God becomes dead to us?
HEBREWS 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.In redeeming us, God does a work from the inside out.
Beginning with the soul, which He seals with the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon rebirth.
From here begins the battle in the mind – we are to be conformed to the image of Christ.
To have the mind of Christ which was determined always to obey the will and Word of God.
This is a battle because the spirit of our natural mind is a variance with this.
So we must overcome by faith in His Word in the inner man (soul) yielding our minds to this.
In our soul lies the facility of free moral agency and with this we must overcome by His Spirit.Finally we are also promised a restored earthly body at the end of this process of redemption.
In which we will ever live in the presence of our Lord and Savior.Hi Malcolm,
What did Jesus mean when he said this?
Jn 12
” 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.”He died.
We join him in his death through baptism so that the new life may grow up in us?Hi Malcolm,
oops
We are reborn of the Spirit.
“reborn? When was the Spirit of Grace born into us prior to this?) “Quote (malcolm ferris @ Aug. 31 2006,02:28) In redeeming us, God does a work from the inside out. Beginning with the soul, which He seals with the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon rebirth.
From here begins the battle in the mind – we are to be conformed to the image of Christ.
To have the mind of Christ which was determined always to obey the will and Word of God.
This is a battle because the spirit of our natural mind is a variance with this.
So we must overcome by faith in His Word in the inner man (soul) yielding our minds to this.
In our soul lies the facility of free moral agency and with this we must overcome by His Spirit.Finally we are also promised a restored earthly body at the end of this process of redemption.
In which we will ever live in the presence of our Lord and Savior.
Hi Malcolm,
I have never seen a newborn in Christ immediately express evidence that they have the mind of Christ, so I would have thought the mind of Christ in us would appear no more quickly than any other aspect of Christ.
Gal 4
” 19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, “In redeeming us, God does a work from the inside out.
Beginning with the soul, which He seals with the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon rebirth.
From here begins the battle in the mind – we are to be conformed to the image of Christ.
To have the mind of Christ which was determined always to obey the will and Word of God.
This is a battle because the spirit of our natural mind is a variance with this.
So we must overcome by faith in His Word in the inner man (soul) yielding our minds to this.
In our soul lies the facility of free moral agency and with this we must overcome by His Spirit.Finally we are also promised a restored earthly body at the end of this process of redemption.
In which we will ever live in the presence of our Lord and Savior.Nick
Read it again
I said the battle begins in the mind.
Where Christ must not be formed in us.
How? The renewing of the mind day by day.
By the transforming power of his Word, casting down reason and imagination and everything that exalts itself against the Word of God.
This opposed to conforming to the spirit of the world.Hi Malcolm,
Does scripture state what you claim it does?
Eph 1.13
” 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
2Cor 1.22
” 22Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”? Maybe.
Hi Malcolm,
Did you mean this
“Where Christ must not be formed in us.”?It says we are sealed but does it say our souls are sealed?
Hi Nick
What of us is sealed then Nick?
Our body is of no use to him.
Our mind is carnal and at enmity in need of transformation.
Read between the lines.
What is left?Hi Malcolm,
I prefer not to have to read between the lines.
There is nothing written between the lines on which to base doctrines.GALATIANS 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.Who is the “I” Paul speaks of here – this is the crux of this whole issue.
It is not his flesh – for his flesh is dead because of sin.
Is it Paul's spirit? Or is it his soul? Or are they the same thing?Well according to scripture the soul and the spirit are distinct.
And the soul is not just the flesh for that is also distinct.Matthew 10:28 lets us know that the thing we should be concerned with is not the death of our body but our soul. Our spirit is not mentioned.
In Matthew 16:26 Jesus asks us what can we give in exchange for our soul? Clearly the salvation of our soul is the issue.
So when God says in His Word we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. What is sealed?
What is the important part that must not die?Acts 2:27-31 tells us that Jesus' soul was not left in hell, not forsaken.
Nor was his body allowed to see corruption.
The emphasis is on the soul first….Hebrews 6:16-20 tells us that God has given us a hope that holds as an anchor for our souls (in other words it is secure – sealed).
HEBREWS 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.III JOHN 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.How can the receiving of the Spirit of God be considered a rebirth?
When we are born we become an enlivened soul.
The life that enlivens us is from a sinful creation and unto a fallen condition.
For that life comes via our natural parents who are in a fallen condition and we inherit the same.
Even as they in turn inherited from theirs all the way back to our original ancestors Adam and Eve.So when our soul is enlivened anew by the Spirit of God we now live not by the spirit of the world but the Spirit of God.
Our first birth is unto death – the second is unto life without end.As I have said before – death is separation.
Physical death is separation of the soul from the body.
Spiritual death is separation of the soul from the Spirit of God.This is how we can be dead while we yet live.
And that is why Jesus called the Pharisees twice dead and plucked up by the roots.Twice dead?
Separated from God originally due to sin (once) their condition when he appears,
separated eternally from God due to rejecting him (twice).
As he said – if you do not believe that I am he you will die in your sin.
He that believes in me shall not see death but has passed from death unto life.Our first birth brings us to a natural body
The new (second) birth brings us not to a natural but a spiritual bodyHi Malcolm,
The breath of God through our parents gives us natural life. When we are baptised into the death of Jesus and receive the Spirit of God we are guaranteed to be sons of the first resurrection. We become followers of the firstborn of the dead and await that blessing. No longer are we dependant on the short time in the body, natural death and the second resurrection unto judgement but have passed over from death into inherited eternal life in the Son. His Spirit in us will never leave us and will raise us when he returns.Hi Nick
Quote The breath of God through our parents gives us natural life. The breath of God through our parents – is there scripture for that?
Quote When we are baptised into the death of Jesus and receive the Spirit of God we are guaranteed to be sons of the first resurrection. I JOHN 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.JOHN 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.Hi Malcolm,
“The breath of God through our parents – is there scripture for that?”
Gen 2.7
” 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
Gen 1.26-28
” 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
Hi Malcolm,
We are reborn sons but the fullness of the promise will not be shown till the return of Jesus.Lk 20 34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”
“
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 31 2006,21:43) Hi Malcolm,
“The breath of God through our parents – is there scripture for that?”
Gen 2.7
” 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
Gen 1.26-28
” 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
Hi NickThanks for that, wasn't sure if that was the context you were using.
Certainly we do not come the same way as those original parents however, being formed in a secondary ground (the womb of our mothers)Hi Malcolm,
It seems that the breath of life was given to Adam and thence to Eve and then God gave them authoity to continue passing on this life essence right through to us.I do not think Ps 139 takes away from this thought.
” 13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.”
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